Lumix S5 users: is tracking AF really bad?

[Derma pro]

I had a hand on S5 in a shop few months ago during a short trip. It was very comfortable in hand and has many good features on paper. However, many comment on a below average tracking AF.

The camera is not present in my area and if I want it I must order it online. I used Lumix P&S LX7 for many years and it was excellent for what it is. I also liked the menus and botton layout of the Lumix.

I like to photograph moving objects like my children and some BIF but also portraits, family and travel. I also want to get into video.

As nothing compares to actual use, I would like to know the experience of S5 users about the AF in general and tracking in particular.

My other choices are the normal competitors: sony A7iv, canon R6 and nikon z6ii. They are more expensive but available in my area

Thanks

 

[mcantsin]

Tracking autofocus unfortunately is on the level of a 10-year old digital camera. It's not usable IMHO for video (because it's subtly pumping all the time), and not even remotely in the league of the Sony A7iv and Canon R6 you mentioned.

It's rather the other way around: Sony and Canon have made spectacular leaps with continuous autofocus on large sensor cameras, and things that nobody would have expected from a camera a couple of years ago have now become the standard.

5-10 years ago, it was simply normal for any MFT, APS-C or full frame camera that (a) for video, you couldn't use autofocus at all and (b) in high-speed photography with AF-C, most of the images you shot were not (or not perfectly) in focus.

Unfortunately, Panasonic is still stuck in that past.

 

[BPCook]

There are several videos on YouTube with of the S5 and the new Lumix S f1.8 prime lenses (24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm) all showing off perfectly useable continuous autofocus for photography and videography.

I will receive a Lumix S 50mm f1.8 in a couple of days and report back.

My guess is that it will be fine and that the negative Lumix autofocus rumors are way overblown (or maybe only really relevant for certain lenses).

 

[georgehudetz]

I also believe that the AF tracking on the S5 is in general better than it is often given credit for, once the camera is set up properly.

However, with the A7iV on the market, it appears that the S5 is at a generational disadvantage when it comes to tracking & photographing moving subjects. Of course, there is a price difference, but if you can absorb that, and also are comfortable with other things "Sony" then I suspect the A7IV will give you more keepers.

 

[aiphoto1980]

Is not terrible, but is not as good as the competition, quite far.

If autofocus has an important weight in your decision, better go with Sony or Canon, this way you will avoid the disappointment.

 

[Dr Hal]

I use the Continuous Autofocus and it is excellent. My three granddaughters all play Lacrosse at a high level in college, high school, and on club teams. With continuous autofocus on a burst mode, I get 95 % keepers. I found on my other cameras also that tracking autofocus was unsatisfactory because it would start tracking the wrong player. I am attaching one of my Lacrosse pictures.




#10 was my subject

 

[D Cox]

I use the Continuous Autofocus and it is excellent. My three granddaughters all play Lacrosse at a high level in college, high school, and on club teams. With continuous autofocus on a burst mode, I get 95 % keepers. I found on my other cameras also that tracking autofocus was unsatisfactory because it would start tracking the wrong player. I am attaching one of my Lacrosse pictures.


#10 was my subject

Good bright light in this example. How is it on dull days ?

My feeling is that Panasonic need faster processing chips to make their AF method work well.

Don Cox

 

[georgehudetz]

I use the Continuous Autofocus and it is excellent. My three granddaughters all play Lacrosse at a high level in college, high school, and on club teams. With continuous autofocus on a burst mode, I get 95 % keepers. I found on my other cameras also that tracking autofocus was unsatisfactory because it would start tracking the wrong player. I am attaching one of my Lacrosse pictures.


#10 was my subject

Good bright light in this example. How is it on dull days ?

My feeling is that Panasonic need faster processing chips to make their AF method work well.

Don Cox

Yes, I feel the same way. We shall see.

I'm sure faster glass would help as well, but that 70-200/2.8 is quite dear.

I've used the S5 with the 100-400 & 1.4 TC - so, F9 - with BIF in less ideal circumstances (i.e., overcast), and my hit rate is much lower than 95%. But then I think BIF takes a certain amount of skill to do well, regardless of how good the AF system is, and my experience is limited at this point.

--
http://georgehudetzphotography.smugmug.com/
My Flikr stream: http://flic.kr/ps/Ay8ka

 

[Mausweazle]

In good light the AF is good. However, in low light (night+outside) the af-s struggles quite much. I compared it to my Olympus E-M5 III and it seems like light years between. While the Olympus found my face and had eye-detection, the pana would just not focus. I have not tried af-c yet (and probably never will)

 

[Dr Hal]

I have no problem on dull days. The high ISO performance of my S5 is amazing after using m43 for 11 years. I just put it on AFC and blast away.

Hal

 

[georgehudetz]

Tracking my dog, who is very fast. He likes to "chase" other dogs on the other side of the fence - it's a little game they play and he's like a little rocket.

Anyway, I was able to grab a few frames as he ran towards me, but he stopped very quickly while my panning motion did not LOL. So I only got 8 frames.

This was "Human/Animal Detect AF" (the mode all the way to the left of the AF menu), AFC (obviously), 70-300 wide-open, nice, sunny conditions, 1/800 sec SS. All full-sized JPEGs, created by Capture One with no special processing.

I also locked on to him by clicking the joystick button before I started shooting. This is a critical step often missed.

AF Sensitivity = 0

AF Area Switching Sensitivity = 0

Moving Subject Prediction = 1


Sharp


Sharp


Eyes OOF


Eyes OOF


Sharp


Eyes slightly OOF


Sharp


Head slightly OOF (rear foot in focus)

At this point he stopped too quickly and I lost him.

So, this sequence had a hit rate of 50%. Not great, but not terrible. I'm not certain if another set of AF Custom Settings would have improved the outcome, or how an A7III or A7IV would have performed. Or a 70-200/2.8 on an S5.

--
http://georgehudetzphotography.smugmug.com/
My Flikr stream: http://flic.kr/ps/Ay8ka

 

[sunnycal]

I use the Continuous Autofocus and it is excellent. My three granddaughters all play Lacrosse at a high level in college, high school, and on club teams. With continuous autofocus on a burst mode, I get 95 % keepers. I found on my other cameras also that tracking autofocus was unsatisfactory because it would start tracking the wrong player. I am attaching one of my Lacrosse pictures.


#10 was my subject

Good bright light in this example. How is it on dull days ?

My feeling is that Panasonic need faster processing chips to make their AF method work well.

Don Cox

Yes, I feel the same way. We shall see.

I'm sure faster glass would help as well, but that 70-200/2.8 is quite dear.

I've used the S5 with the 100-400 & 1.4 TC - so, F9 - with BIF in less ideal circumstances (i.e., overcast), and my hit rate is much lower than 95%. But then I think BIF takes a certain amount of skill to do well,

Sigma 100-400 is a slouch. It is a poor lens for BIF. The Sigma 150-600 is better then that, but it's still not very fast. Panasonic 70-300 and the 70-200 with or without TC are the only telezoom options for fast action in L mount.

regardless of how good the AF system is, and my experience is limited at this point.

--
http://georgehudetzphotography.smugmug.com/
My Flikr stream: http://flic.kr/ps/Ay8ka

 

[sunnycal]

I use the Continuous Autofocus and it is excellent. My three granddaughters all play Lacrosse at a high level in college, high school, and on club teams. With continuous autofocus on a burst mode, I get 95 % keepers. I found on my other cameras also that tracking autofocus was unsatisfactory because it would start tracking the wrong player. I am attaching one of my Lacrosse pictures.


#10 was my subject

Good bright light in this example. How is it on dull days ?

Dull days are just fine. Unless the situation asks for ISO in five digits, continuous af in photography is fine.

My feeling is that Panasonic need faster processing chips to make their AF method work well.

Don Cox

 

[georgehudetz]

Yes, I feel the same way. We shall see.

I'm sure faster glass would help as well, but that 70-200/2.8 is quite dear.

I've used the S5 with the 100-400 & 1.4 TC - so, F9 - with BIF in less ideal circumstances (i.e., overcast), and my hit rate is much lower than 95%. But then I think BIF takes a certain amount of skill to do well,

Sigma 100-400 is a slouch. It is a poor lens for BIF. The Sigma 150-600 is better then that, but it's still not very fast. Panasonic 70-300 and the 70-200 with or without TC are the only telezoom options for fast action in L mount.

Well, it's good to know the only direction is up, LOL. The 150-600 is on my list. TBH, I have not noted a significant difference between my 70-300 & 100-400 from a AFC accuracy/speed perspective, but then I've not used the 70-300 in demanding situations very much (save the dog sequence above).

I'm sure the 70-200s are a noticeable improvement, with the dual motors.

 

[Off The Mark]

My experience has been mixed. Definitely not as good as others. Although I probably have tested more in video than some of the other users on this forum. Maybe that is why there is the discrepancy?

Just two days ago I was using continuous af in one-area mode shooting 4K 60p video. I was doing simple slow panning between two objects, one that was about two feet away and another that was about 12 feet away. The af was quite good when panning from the near object to the far object.

But when moving from the far object to the near object, the af would often take several seconds to change focus to the near object.

Now, af in video in aps-c mode and 60fps is supposed to be better than in 24 / 25 / 30fps, so that was pretty disappointing.

In short, I just don't feel I could trust continuous af for professional use. I might ATTEMPT to use it but I would definitely have peaking on and have my hand over the focus ring to override af with manual focus if I had to.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

I had a hand on S5 in a shop few months ago during a short trip. It was very comfortable in hand and has many good features on paper. However, many comment on a below average tracking AF.

The camera is not present in my area and if I want it I must order it online. I used Lumix P&S LX7 for many years and it was excellent for what it is. I also liked the menus and botton layout of the Lumix.

I like to photograph moving objects like my children

Don’t get the focusing system wrong. S-AF is blazingly fast and quite up to capturing moving children. I don’t use C-AF because my general use is by Canon EF mount lenses via electronic adapters and the adapters lock out C-AF which I find little loss for my own purposes. Adapted EF lenses are naturally by design constraint a little slower to focus than native L-Mount lenses but most of them are quite fast enough in S-AF for my own purpose.

and some BIF

BIF is a hard discipline and needs skills that I personally cannot be bothered learning - if you don’t already do BIF be prepared to learn and be patient - any camera is not a ticket to good BIF no matter how good its C-AF. In fact Danny Young (NZMacro) takes astonishingly good BIF images using manual focus (!) and has posted his technique on several occasions on fora.

but also portraits, family and travel.

S-AF is all you need and its speed is hardly less than PDAF for that purpose.

I also want to get into video.

I don’t do video and others are better qualified to post on this subject. Sufficient from my purposes is that Panasonic is one of the leading video manufacturers and is well regraded in that field if C-AF was a real issue then surely Panasonic would be dead to video. Some complain about “pulsing” in the evf - but I might also complain about the side hinged lcd offered to make video easier.

As nothing compares to actual use, I would like to know the experience of S5 users about the AF in general and tracking in particular.

My other choices are the normal competitors: sony A7iv, canon R6 and nikon z6ii. They are more expensive but available in my area

Thanks

I come from S1 experience but I doubt if there is any real difference between AF on a S1 and that of a S5. Furthermore there is the interface - if you set comfortable use and enjoyment of the camera then this creates quite a few ticks compared to other brands.

But PDAF might correct focus changes quicker even if CDAF has always been more accurate and Panasonic CDAF is very refined - for example: nobody seems to find issues with Leica CDAF - only the Panasonic brand gets chided on its CDAF.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

My experience has been mixed. Definitely not as good as others. Although I probably have tested more in video than some of the other users on this forum. Maybe that is why there is the discrepancy?

Just two days ago I was using continuous af in one-area mode shooting 4K 60p video. I was doing simple slow panning between two objects, one that was about two feet away and another that was about 12 feet away. The af was quite good when panning from the near object to the far object.

But when moving from the far object to the near object, the af would often take several seconds to change focus to the near object.

Now, af in video in aps-c mode and 60fps is supposed to be better than in 24 / 25 / 30fps, so that was pretty disappointing.

In short, I just don't feel I could trust continuous af for professional use. I might ATTEMPT to use it but I would definitely have peaking on and have my hand over the focus ring to override af with manual focus if I had to.

With respect.

I don’t do video so C-AF I can live without but common sense says to me that if Panasonic video was so bad for professional use then i would suggest that they should simply give up on their video enterprise - now!

One might wonder why video was such a big thing with Panasonic product line up.

Maybe their dedicated video camera types work better? But if so they still use CDAF.

 

[aiphoto1980]

I moved from pana s1 to leica sl2s, and surprisingly photo focus seems better with the leica than on the pana and yes leica users also complain, not as loud as Panasonic users, but this is cause leica users buy the sl knowing autofocus is not great, but many pana users buy the s5 thinking pana magically solved the contrast detect issues and then they are disappointed

 

[Off The Mark]

My experience has been mixed. Definitely not as good as others. Although I probably have tested more in video than some of the other users on this forum. Maybe that is why there is the discrepancy?

Just two days ago I was using continuous af in one-area mode shooting 4K 60p video. I was doing simple slow panning between two objects, one that was about two feet away and another that was about 12 feet away. The af was quite good when panning from the near object to the far object.

But when moving from the far object to the near object, the af would often take several seconds to change focus to the near object.

Now, af in video in aps-c mode and 60fps is supposed to be better than in 24 / 25 / 30fps, so that was pretty disappointing.

In short, I just don't feel I could trust continuous af for professional use. I might ATTEMPT to use it but I would definitely have peaking on and have my hand over the focus ring to override af with manual focus if I had to.

With respect.

I don’t do video so C-AF I can live without but common sense says to me that if Panasonic video was so bad for professional use then i would suggest that they should simply give up on their video enterprise - now!

One might wonder why video was such a big thing with Panasonic product line up.

Maybe their dedicated video camera types work better? But if so they still use CDAF.

Lots of people LOVE their Panasonic cameras for video, but they have either learned to live with manual focus or accept thee fact that they will have to do several takes if shooting in af-c. I would say that I fall in to that category.

A few weeks back on the Facebook group Panasonic Cameras for Video, I did a poll asking video shooters if they "trusted" the af on the S-Series cameras. It was about 15 no's to 2 yes's. These are all people who are committed to shooting video professionally or semi professionally.

I know that for Panasonic's Eva1 cinema camera, which is a super 35 / aps-c sensor, they used a Canon EF mount. I think the Eva1 has just af-s. (It might be manual focus only though.)

Traditionally, cinema cameras use manual focus (or a basic form of af-s), and lots of people shooting video on Panasonic S-Series cameras use aides such as follow focus wheels and HDMI monitors to help nail manual focus.

Also, if I understand correctly, the new Sony Venice 2, Sony's premiere cinema camera, they have eliminated Phase Detect auto focus so as to eliminate a particular type of image artifacts. I think it is called something like low band noise or something like that.

--
What Middle School Is Really Like:

 

[georgehudetz]

My experience has been mixed. Definitely not as good as others. Although I probably have tested more in video than some of the other users on this forum. Maybe that is why there is the discrepancy?

Just two days ago I was using continuous af in one-area mode shooting 4K 60p video. I was doing simple slow panning between two objects, one that was about two feet away and another that was about 12 feet away. The af was quite good when panning from the near object to the far object.

But when moving from the far object to the near object, the af would often take several seconds to change focus to the near object.

Now, af in video in aps-c mode and 60fps is supposed to be better than in 24 / 25 / 30fps, so that was pretty disappointing.

In short, I just don't feel I could trust continuous af for professional use.

What systems have you tested that feel are up to the task of professional video production?

I might ATTEMPT to use it but I would definitely have peaking on and have my hand over the focus ring to override af with manual focus if I had to.