Lumix S5 users: is tracking AF really bad?

[OSPhoto]

I had a hand on S5 in a shop few months ago during a short trip. It was very comfortable in hand and has many good features on paper. However, many comment on a below average tracking AF.

The camera is not present in my area and if I want it I must order it online. I used Lumix P&S LX7 for many years and it was excellent for what it is. I also liked the menus and botton layout of the Lumix.

I like to photograph moving objects like my children and some BIF but also portraits, family and travel. I also want to get into video.

As nothing compares to actual use, I would like to know the experience of S5 users about the AF in general and tracking in particular.

My other choices are the normal competitors: sony A7iv, canon R6 and nikon z6ii. They are more expensive but available in my area

Thanks

I've never scientifically measured this but shooting stills:

AF-S with no motion - no problems

AF-S with people moving at walking paces - no problems

AF-C burst people/animals moving at running pace - sometimes a few mis-focused shots

AF-C burst fast action/BIF - some mis-focused shots but I have got some shots (BIF can be hard just to get them in the right spot in the viewfinder on any camera)

AF-C for video is normally fine for slow moving subjects, although I still lock focus out of habit. The "pulsing" effect of DfD was drastically minimized with the S5 although there are still some situations where you see it, so with video it's always best to lock the focus with the AEL button or be in manual mode.

PD system will probably get you more keepers in the fast action edge cases. A canon R6 or sony A7iv are faster cameras than an S5. The S5 can do action, it's just not what the primary design goal was. Image quality, particularly in video is where the S series stands out

What I'm realizing has become important is the question of; can I give my wife, or someone else the camera to take a picture, set it, and without them knowing much or anything except pointing towards the subject and clicking the shutter, can they get in focus pictures?

In my hands I can make things work as I want them to, but a lot of our usage is kids indoors, kids doing activities, family outings, etc, and for the later, unless I never want to be in the pictures, my wife who knows nothing about cameras, or someone else with us or a random has to take some pictures too, and don't want to just default to the phone.

 

[Off The Mark]

I had a hand on S5 in a shop few months ago during a short trip. It was very comfortable in hand and has many good features on paper. However, many comment on a below average tracking AF.

The camera is not present in my area and if I want it I must order it online. I used Lumix P&S LX7 for many years and it was excellent for what it is. I also liked the menus and botton layout of the Lumix.

I like to photograph moving objects like my children and some BIF but also portraits, family and travel. I also want to get into video.

As nothing compares to actual use, I would like to know the experience of S5 users about the AF in general and tracking in particular.

My other choices are the normal competitors: sony A7iv, canon R6 and nikon z6ii. They are more expensive but available in my area

Thanks

I've never scientifically measured this but shooting stills:

AF-S with no motion - no problems

AF-S with people moving at walking paces - no problems

AF-C burst people/animals moving at running pace - sometimes a few mis-focused shots

AF-C burst fast action/BIF - some mis-focused shots but I have got some shots (BIF can be hard just to get them in the right spot in the viewfinder on any camera)

AF-C for video is normally fine for slow moving subjects, although I still lock focus out of habit. The "pulsing" effect of DfD was drastically minimized with the S5 although there are still some situations where you see it, so with video it's always best to lock the focus with the AEL button or be in manual mode.

PD system will probably get you more keepers in the fast action edge cases. A canon R6 or sony A7iv are faster cameras than an S5. The S5 can do action, it's just not what the primary design goal was. Image quality, particularly in video is where the S series stands out

What I'm realizing has become important is the question of; can I give my wife, or someone else the camera to take a picture, set it, and without them knowing much or anything except pointing towards the subject and clicking the shutter, can they get in focus pictures

Yeah, you could. But you might have more success if you just let your wife use your E-M1 MK III or Sony RX camera.

I don't know what it is but the S5 can be a bit intimidating to those people who don't use cameras much. I get a lot more success handing my a6000 / a6500 / a5100 / E-M1 MK II off to someone instead of my S5 (Heaven forbit I try to hand my S1 to an unsuspecting individual).

 

[ElhanDobriv]

I had a hand on S5 in a shop few months ago during a short trip. It was very comfortable in hand and has many good features on paper. However, many comment on a below average tracking AF.

The camera is not present in my area and if I want it I must order it online. I used Lumix P&S LX7 for many years and it was excellent for what it is. I also liked the menus and botton layout of the Lumix.

I like to photograph moving objects like my children and some BIF but also portraits, family and travel. I also want to get into video.

As nothing compares to actual use, I would like to know the experience of S5 users about the AF in general and tracking in particular.

My other choices are the normal competitors: sony A7iv, canon R6 and nikon z6ii. They are more expensive but available in my area

Thanks

I've never scientifically measured this but shooting stills:

AF-S with no motion - no problems

AF-S with people moving at walking paces - no problems

AF-C burst people/animals moving at running pace - sometimes a few mis-focused shots

AF-C burst fast action/BIF - some mis-focused shots but I have got some shots (BIF can be hard just to get them in the right spot in the viewfinder on any camera)

AF-C for video is normally fine for slow moving subjects, although I still lock focus out of habit. The "pulsing" effect of DfD was drastically minimized with the S5 although there are still some situations where you see it, so with video it's always best to lock the focus with the AEL button or be in manual mode.

PD system will probably get you more keepers in the fast action edge cases. A canon R6 or sony A7iv are faster cameras than an S5. The S5 can do action, it's just not what the primary design goal was. Image quality, particularly in video is where the S series stands out

What I'm realizing has become important is the question of; can I give my wife, or someone else the camera to take a picture, set it, and without them knowing much or anything except pointing towards the subject and clicking the shutter, can they get in focus pictures

Yeah, you could. But you might have more success if you just let your wife use your E-M1 MK III or Sony RX camera.

I don't know what it is but the S5 can be a bit intimidating to those people who don't use cameras much. I get a lot more success handing my a6000 / a6500 / a5100 / E-M1 MK II off to someone instead of my S5 (Heaven forbit I try to hand my S1 to an unsuspecting individual).

 

[FujLiver]

I had a hand on S5 in a shop few months ago during a short trip. It was very comfortable in hand and has many good features on paper. However, many comment on a below average tracking AF.

The camera is not present in my area and if I want it I must order it online. I used Lumix P&S LX7 for many years and it was excellent for what it is. I also liked the menus and botton layout of the Lumix.

I like to photograph moving objects like my children

Don’t get the focusing system wrong. S-AF is blazingly fast and quite up to capturing moving children. I don’t use C-AF because my general use is by Canon EF mount lenses via electronic adapters and the adapters lock out C-AF which I find little loss for my own purposes. Adapted EF lenses are naturally by design constraint a little slower to focus than native L-Mount lenses but most of them are quite fast enough in S-AF for my own purpose.

and some BIF

BIF is a hard discipline and needs skills that I personally cannot be bothered learning - if you don’t already do BIF be prepared to learn and be patient - any camera is not a ticket to good BIF no matter how good its C-AF. In fact Danny Young (NZMacro) takes astonishingly good BIF images using manual focus (!) and has posted his technique on several occasions on fora.

but also portraits, family and travel.

S-AF is all you need and its speed is hardly less than PDAF for that purpose.

I also want to get into video.

I don’t do video and others are better qualified to post on this subject. Sufficient from my purposes is that Panasonic is one of the leading video manufacturers and is well regraded in that field if C-AF was a real issue then surely Panasonic would be dead to video. Some complain about “pulsing” in the evf - but I might also complain about the side hinged lcd offered to make video easier.

As nothing compares to actual use, I would like to know the experience of S5 users about the AF in general and tracking in particular.

My other choices are the normal competitors: sony A7iv, canon R6 and nikon z6ii. They are more expensive but available in my area

Thanks

I come from S1 experience but I doubt if there is any real difference between AF on a S1 and that of a S5. Furthermore there is the interface - if you set comfortable use and enjoyment of the camera then this creates quite a few ticks compared to other brands.

But PDAF might correct focus changes quicker even if CDAF has always been more accurate and Panasonic CDAF is very refined - for example: nobody seems to find issues with Leica CDAF - only the Panasonic brand gets chided on its CDAF.

I agree

Whenever I do video its MF anyway. All professional videographers I know use MF. I think bloggers on the move like to use AF, but then going in and out of focus a few times doesn't really matter in this scenario. Many amateur youtubers use AF. this should be ok for someone sitting down and not moving. What I can say is that the video quality gorgeous. FF video done right is special !!!

--
"No photograph survives first contact with the subject"

 

[Off The Mark]

I agree

Whenever I do video its MF anyway. All professional videographers I know use MF. I think bloggers on the move like to use AF, but then going in and out of focus a few times doesn't really matter in this scenario. Many amateur youtubers use AF. this should be ok for someone sitting down and not moving. What I can say is that the video quality gorgeous. FF video done right is special !!!

While there are many times that manual focus is best, a lot of run and gun documentary / events / wedding videographers (particularly those who shot on gimbals) appreciate the benefits of the excellent AF that is found on Canon and Sony models.

I know a couple of videographers whose main video camera is an S5 (or S1H) but have a Sony crop sensor camera on a gimbal for when they need dependable AF.

I really wish there was some sort of integrated handle with electric follow focus that could be incorporated in to the S-series of cameras. Something along the line of the RED side grip that Caleb from DSLR video shooter describes (briefly) in this video:

 

[OmegaMan17]

This could be the solution

Ronin w auto focus

• Continuous 3D Focus for Manual Lenses

It requires a manual lens.

 

[vxcalais]

I have only had my S5 for a few days so can in no way claim any experience with it, but I had the chance to film a few vids my little one running around inside the home in the evening (poorly lit) . I only used stock settings or whatever the red button is setup to do and this thing was tracking her head while she was running left to right/up and down and switching direction no problem. It was tracking her as well as the M6ii I had previously. Then if someone else came into the screen it threw another big square around them. I was using the 50mm 1.8 @ around F3.

Like I said, only a miniscule example but if it can do that for me I am happy I wasn't scared off by these concerns. Is it mainly in bright blown out conditions people are having issues ?

 

[Chube1]

Getting back here in 2024..

I've tried the S5 and was a bit underwhelmed with the tracking focus.

It seems great with faces/eyes but if I try to compose with tracking (focus a subject in the middle then compose holding focus) the [+] doesn't really stick, sometimes jumping unexpectedly somewhere else (sometimes to the background).

I tried changing sensitivity and such but not much satisfaction.

I didn't have time to check current firmware on the camera but has there been some firmware release to fix the issue?

I like the camera but this is disappointing

 

[jschoonj]

Getting back here in 2024..

I've tried the S5 and was a bit underwhelmed with the tracking focus.

It seems great with faces/eyes but if I try to compose with tracking (focus a subject in the middle then compose holding focus) the [+] doesn't really stick, sometimes jumping unexpectedly somewhere else (sometimes to the background).

I tried changing sensitivity and such but not much satisfaction.

I didn't have time to check current firmware on the camera but has there been some firmware release to fix the issue?

I like the camera but this is disappointing

The tracking is fine but not great. Like you said for people it does surprisingly well most of the time. Other stuff is usually servicable but not great. Don't expect to use it as a sports camera.

It does a better job compared to an Olympus E-M1 III that has phase detect, but more recent cameras will defintely outdo it.

 

[ElhanDobriv]

Getting back here in 2024..

I've tried the S5 and was a bit underwhelmed with the tracking focus.

It seems great with faces/eyes but if I try to compose with tracking (focus a subject in the middle then compose holding focus) the [+] doesn't really stick, sometimes jumping unexpectedly somewhere else (sometimes to the background).

I tried changing sensitivity and such but not much satisfaction.

I didn't have time to check current firmware on the camera but has there been some firmware release to fix the issue?

I like the camera but this is disappointing

This can sometimes happen if:

- Very bright background
- Not enough light
- Not enough contrast
- You move the camera too fast
- Yhe object is reflective or shiny
- The shape/colour of the subject changes as it moves.

In my experience the "Tracking" mode can be the easiest to trip up because it's trying to do a very complex thing (remember what you're preferred subject looks like and keep track if it all around the frame in real time).

The "Tracking" feature makes no assumption about what your subject is, it just sort of caches the shape/colour of the thing you tap on and attempts to track that object as it moves around. In the manual, it explains that the tracking feature basically doesn't work in monochrome picture profiles. I assume this is because it needs some colour information to create a "profile" of the object you want to track. I would assume this feature is very taxing on the processor, and the more complex the scene, and the faster the subjects are moving the more difficult it is to process.

I don't shoot particularly complex scenes so I find human/animal detect to work things out better and get better hit rates. The cameras AF system has been built using many years of data on human face recognition and animal shapes, so it seems a bit more "intelligent" in this mode. It knows what a human looks like from multiple different angles etc.