Low Key Portrait Question

[cdembrey]

Check-this-out

There are a lot How-To videos on the 'net. Many are by people with very little experience. Here are some shooters who know what they are talking about.

Broncolor works with several pros https://www.youtube.com/results?q=Broncolor

Karl Taylor https://www.youtube.com/user/GreatPhotographyTips/videos?view=0&sort=p&shelf_id=3

Profoto https://www.youtube.com/user/ProfotoGlobal

 

[cdembrey]

A simple way to make a room effectively larger is to open the door. If it opens into a hall it will give you an additional 4-5 feet. If the door is to another room or the outdoors ...

There's a local photographer with a relatively small studio, who sometimes shoots through his backdoor from the alley

 

[Krav Maga]

"I understand that if I want a black background, I should use a black backdrop to cover the wall. But my goal is to get a black background without using a black backdrop, like in the youtube video in my initial post."

Did ypu notice that he was shooting outdoors? He was making the background very dark byshooting at a high enough shutterspeed that the ambient daylight was not registering.

you are working in a small room with light colored walls. The light is trapped in the room. The only solutions are : use a dark material for the background and reduce the amount of light reaching the background OR find a larger interior space to experiment in OR do what the guy who shot that video did and shoot outside under subdued light.

--
Ellis Vener
http://www.ellisvener.com
Free your eyes and the rest will follow. (With apologies to George Clinton.)

I'm new as well, deep in the throes of the learning curve. I had the same problem and through experimentation, I've found that lighting from the side or obliquely with a gridded strobe (not using my sb) can make a nearly black background. It makes for some very contrasty lighting, but that's kind of what I'm after. Also, I bought a large swath of black velvet-type fabric that I can cover my well with. At a fabric store it cost around $30. I haven't tried it with my large sb, but with a gridded strobe, I can get a black bg. I suspect that if I use my sb, I should be able to get a similarly black bg if my subject is a few feet from the wall.

I'll experiment tonight.

 

[tetsusaiga]

I'm new as well, deep in the throes of the learning curve. I had the same problem and through experimentation, I've found that lighting from the side or obliquely with a gridded strobe (not using my sb) can make a nearly black background. It makes for some very contrasty lighting, but that's kind of what I'm after. Also, I bought a large swath of black velvet-type fabric that I can cover my well with. At a fabric store it cost around $30. I haven't tried it with my large sb, but with a gridded strobe, I can get a black bg. I suspect that if I use my sb, I should be able to get a similarly black bg if my subject is a few feet from the wall.

I'll experiment tonight.

Nice. Can you post your results from your experiment when you have a chance. I'm also considering buying a black valvet material to cover my white walls. Do you have any recommendations for where to buy the valvet fabric? Thanks.

 

[Ellis Vener]

Go to any fabric store. Velvet works best but high quality black velvet is expensive. Dvateen is also good. I've seen several people use black neoprene as int doesn't hold a crease and that makes it easy to stoe but I haven't priced it per yard.

 

[tetsusaiga]

Go to any fabric store. Velvet works best but high quality black velvet is expensive. Dvateen is also good. I've seen several people use black neoprene as int doesn't hold a crease and that makes it easy to stoe but I haven't priced it per yard.

 

[Krav Maga]

Nice. Can you post your results from your experiment when you have a chance. I'm also considering buying a black valvet material to cover my white walls. Do you have any recommendations for where to buy the valvet fabric? Thanks.

I can post some when I get home. I purchased my fabric at Michaels. It's a craft store in the States if you're in the States.

 

[Krav Maga]

Go to any fabric store. Velvet works best but high quality black velvet is expensive. Dvateen is also good. I've seen several people use black neoprene as int doesn't hold a crease and that makes it easy to stoe but I haven't priced it per yard.

 

[Krav Maga]

Sorry, gaffing tape. Tape.

 

[dinoSnake]

Go to any fabric store. Velvet works best but high quality black velvet is expensive. Dvateen is also good. I've seen several people use black neoprene as int doesn't hold a crease and that makes it easy to stoe but I haven't priced it per yard.

--
Ellis Vener
http://www.ellisvener.com
Free your eyes and the rest will follow. (With apologies to George Clinton.)

Thanks. Im going to find a fabric store here in NYC. Hopefully they price reasonably.

Ha! Everything in NYC is expensive! 7th avenue, the garment district, is your best bet, either Michaels around 21st street or Moods on 37th.

 

[cdembrey]

[No message]

 

[tetsusaiga]

1. dinoSnake wrote:

Ha! Everything in NYC is expensive! 7th avenue, the garment district, is your best bet, either Michaels around 21st street or Moods on 37th.

Thanks again! Are you in NYC too? Would be nice to make friends with other photogs in NYC, especially those starting out with lighting.

 

[Ellis Vener]

Go to any fabric store. Velvet works best but high quality black velvet is expensive. Dvateen is also good. I've seen several people use black neoprene as int doesn't hold a crease and that makes it easy to stoe but I haven't priced it per yard.

 

[tetsusaiga]

there are literally hundreds of fabric suppliers, retail and wholesale, in NYC. Also check with the SetShop: http://www.setshop.com

 

[Ellis Vener]

there are literally hundreds of fabric suppliers, retail and wholesale, in NYC. Also check with the SetShop: http://www.setshop.com

--
Ellis Vener
http://www.ellisvener.com
Free your eyes and the rest will follow. (With apologies to George Clinton.)

Thanks! I will look into the link. Are you also in NYC?

No I'm based down in Atlanta and before that was in Houston, but over the past 30+ years I have come in to shoot for clients (very occasionally); for photo related business, and for family.


In the time before the internet if a local pro shop didn't have what I needed, I needed to know where to find things and Set Shop (along with several professionally oriented camera stores in Manhattan which are now mostly gone) was a prime source.

--
Ellis Vener
http://www.ellisvener.com
Free your eyes and the rest will follow. (With apologies to George Clinton.)

 

[Sailor Blue]

DinoSnake, thanks for sharing your results. It was very helpful. Unfortunately, I do not believe the manufacturer of my 47'' octabox/softbox makes a 47'' grid.

Oh, don't worry! We, also, share this same issue: I purchased a 47" (120cm) octabox as well. So I've already done this research ;-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291521051736

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201458121066

Thanks again. Lol, unfortunately my octabox has 16-spokes, and not the usual 8-spokes.

That means it is a hexadecabox, not an octabox.

Softboxes that take grids have a recessed front diffuser. You won't find a grid specifically for your hexadacabox.

Attaching a grid to a softbox without a recessed diffuser can be accomplished with a little DIY by attaching Velcro to the outside of the softbox and adding straps to the grid. It can take a lot of straps to get the shape right for a circular softbox.

If you can find a reasonably priced 47" grid you can try the DIY solution but try light placement, feathering, and a flag first.

 

[Sailor Blue]

I just attempted, and accomplished, the very same thing this week. The problem is the size of the room, of which I share, so small that even typical procedures won't work. So the secret is feather the light, turn it obliquely in relation to the subject, then add a grid to further limit light spill. Finally, a reflector opposing the feathered softbox, on the other side of the subject, fills the hard shadows created by the oblique placement. Adjust individual placement of objects, and exposure factors, to taste.

Thanks for the reply. Can you explain what you mean by feather the light and turn it obliquely in relations to the subject. Also, how did your pictures come out?

I'm not sure that the problem is the size of the room. I believe the problem is the octabox/softbox is too big. The size of the octabox/softbox is causing the light to spill over to the background, while a small off-camera flash can focus the light more-or-less at a single spot. See for example this video:

But someone with more experience with lighting can maybe chime in and give this newb (me) some help.

I'm also an (almost) complete studio lighting newbie, so I'm going to post my workflow and resulting images for you to see of this past week's test of my first lightbox, an Ezybox (clone) 60cm x 60cm, using a GN50 Olympus FL-50R flash with a Panasonic GX7 & Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8.

The first setup was:


Setup of first shot. Dark gray trapezoid is Ezybox, sliver strip is a triangular hand-held collapsible reflector

The wall is one wall of the living room, the only wall (inconveniently) with color, in this case a middle-deep gold. The subject was standing about 5 feet in front of the wall, the Ezybox are in all the following cases set up about 1 foot higher than eye-level (that is, where the flash is located) with the box angled down so that the mid-line of the box was targeted to the eyes.

And here is the result of this very first setup


First setup results

<snip>

Good exercise. More beginners should do exercises like this.

Unfortunately you were much too close to the subject so your images are good examples of extension distortion, which is frequently and wrongly called wide angle distortion. By moving the camera to a distance of about 15' from the subject you will get rid of either extension or compression distortion.

Distortion is related to subject to camera distance, not to the focal length. There is a very good chart of the proper focal lengths for different framing of subjects at 15' with either an APS-C or full frame sensor in this reference.

Ken Rockwell | Portrait Lenses

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

 

[Rico Tudor]

Nice. Can you post your results from your experiment when you have a chance. I'm also considering buying a black valvet material to cover my white walls. ...

Inspired by dinoSnake, I completed my demo. Key is positioned frontally and larger (3'x4' softbox), so flagged it doesn't work. Instead, I placed the 2'x4' flag behind me with just 1' of clearance. The flag is made by Matthews and has a nubby surface (very effective photon sponge), and is lightly angled away from the SB.

Uncropped version of the portrait above: http://patternassociates.com/rico/fm/flagbg3.png

Same with flag swung aside: http://patternassociates.com/rico/fm/flagbg4.png

The shooting setup: http://patternassociates.com/rico/fm/flagbg1.png

I often shoot against a black b/g, either for portraits or product. Besides flags, I have a 9'x20' Westcott backdrop along one wall of my studio. I use velvet (80% silk) for jewelry. The grid+flag trick does work to kill a white wall, although I typically pull out my fresnels. Black fabric b/g is a simpler route, and can always be employed.

--
Canon, Nikon, Contax RTS, Leica M, Profoto

 

[dinoSnake]

Good exercise. More beginners should do exercises like this.

Unfortunately you were much too close to the subject so your images are good examples of extension distortion, which is frequently and wrongly called wide angle distortion. By moving the camera to a distance of about 15' from the subject you will get rid of either extension or compression distortion.

I know it, have the portrait lens but couldn't use it here, I'm out of room. Keeping the subject 5 feet from the wall meant that, using even 25mm focal length, my back was pretty much up against bookcases on the opposite wall. Use the 85mm (equivalent) 1.7? Couldn't happen

I'm considering backgrounds and stands.

Thank you for the feedback

 

[dinoSnake]

Nice. Can you post your results from your experiment when you have a chance. I'm also considering buying a black valvet material to cover my white walls. ...

Inspired by dinoSnake, I completed my demo. Key is positioned frontally and larger (3'x4' softbox), so flagged it doesn't work. Instead, I placed the 2'x4' flag behind me with just 1' of clearance. The flag is made by Matthews and has a nubby surface (very effective photon sponge), and is lightly angled away from the SB.

Uncropped version of the portrait above: http://patternassociates.com/rico/fm/flagbg3.png

Same with flag swung aside: http://patternassociates.com/rico/fm/flagbg4.png

The shooting setup: http://patternassociates.com/rico/fm/flagbg1.png

I often shoot against a black b/g, either for portraits or product. Besides flags, I have a 9'x20' Westcott backdrop along one wall of my studio. I use velvet (80% silk) for jewelry. The grid+flag trick does work to kill a white wall, although I typically pull out my fresnels. Black fabric b/g is a simpler route, and can always be employed.

Thank you! Looks good to me

Guess if I'm going to continue on this route I'll need that backdrop and stands.