Linux for dummies - where to start

[Jim Cockfield]

CAcreeks wrote:

Last night I popped a DVD of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy into my Linux Mint laptop, formerly a virus-riddled Windows XP machine. The movie came up and played. I got subtitles to appear beneath the wide-screen video. Great software.

But, for most commercial DVDs, you'll need libdvdcss2 libraries to play them because of encryption and copy protection (but, programs like VLC already include those libraries).

The legality of libdvdcss is very questionable in some areas (because it's trying to circumvent the copy protection on commercial DVDs).

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with those libraries, since AFAIK, they have not gone after anyone using those types of libraries to decrypt the copy protection schemes used by commercial DVDs for personal use. But, they have gone after software manufacturers before.

Just be aware that you're probably in violation of the DMCA (and similar) laws in many areas if you use linux distros with the ability to play commercial DVDs.

You'll see a section about libdvdcss on this page:

http://www.videolan.org/legal.html

The same thing applies to many audio formats that you're able to play via VLC or other playback mechanisms like mplayer with the appropriate codecs (you're probably violating some laws by using them).

Also note that you can do the same thing with Blu-ray now using different libraries to bypass the copy protection. There are a number of posts about it online if you use google to search for them.

[sarcasm]Don't you love the entertainment industry (trying to use laws like the DMCA to prevent playing/copying of DVDs and other content unless you're using approved platforms with the appropriate libraries?[/scarcasm]

IOW, the existing laws are absurd, thanks to lots of lobbying by the movie industry, with loads of campaign contributions designed to "buy" favors from politicians.

So with GIMP and Aftershot, the only things I know Linux can't do are Quicken (not on Mac either!) and TurboTax.

Tax software is not much of a problem anymore, thanks to lots of online alternatives.

For example, I used TaxAct last year from Linux, and I'll probably use it again this year. Because lots of newer online software like that can work in a browser like Firefox (so that you don't need to install anything on your PC), the Operating System is not very important.

 

[CAcreeks]

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Just be aware that you're probably in violation of the DMCA (and similar) laws in many areas if you use linux distros with the ability to play commercial DVDs.

I don't see how what I'm doing is different from what I was doing on Windows XP. We had Dell-supplied software (Cyberlink?) to play commercial DVDs. The DVD I was playing is an authentic copy purchased through legal channels.

Tax software is not much of a problem anymore, thanks to lots of online alternatives.

I would not want to put my financial (tax) information online. I realize that TurboTax probably inserts some spyware that sends it to the Intuit central office, but this is probably somewhat more secure than web-based tax centers.

For example, I used TaxAct last year from Linux...

If you are set up with Quicken, it's much easier to transfer data into TurboTax. Being mostly self-employed, my wife has very complicated taxes.

 

[chili5555]

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Just be aware that you're probably in violation of the DMCA (and similar) laws in many areas if you use linux distros with the ability to play commercial DVDs.

I'd love to litigate that. I'd like to hear an explanation any judge and jury would accept that shows how I can perfectly legally play a commercial DVD on a Windows machine, a Mac, a stand-alone DVD player, an Xbox, my cousin's SUV, dozens of portable DVD players, etc., but not legally on a Linux box.

Go ahead; make my day.

 

[Jim Cockfield]

chili5555 wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Just be aware that you're probably in violation of the DMCA (and similar) laws in many areas if you use linux distros with the ability to play commercial DVDs.

I'd love to litigate that. I'd like to hear an explanation any judge and jury would accept that shows how I can perfectly legally play a commercial DVD on a Windows machine, a Mac, a stand-alone DVD player, an Xbox, my cousin's SUV, dozens of portable DVD players, etc., but not legally on a Linux box.

Look at the license fees for the codecs involved.


Its *very* definitely illegal to use libraries like libdvdcss (like VLC media player and many other apps use) to bypass and decrypt the content on commercial DVDs if you want to play them on Linux distros (at least in the U.S.).

Just look at the DMCA for provisions in that area.


The same thing applies to many other content types (for example, playing of mp3 audio files without officially licensed codecs).

IOW, you're breaking existing laws in many regions by playing that type of content using most Linux distros that allow it.

As for trials in court, that depends on the judge and jury

It's very obvious (at least go me), that existing laws are being violated if you play a lot of different content types with most Linux distros that include applications and codecs designed to decrypt and bypass the copy protection for those content types.

The question then becomes: whether or not a jury would convict you. My guess, is that if you're using the content for personal use, probably not.

But if you're using that content for other purposes (e.g. making software available to others so that they can copy or play protected and encrypted content), then you're more likely to be convicted of DMCA violations resulting in prison time.

 

[CAcreeks]

Here is a good parody of an off-target Linux review you read in PC Mazagine and the ilk.

Branko's blog: On the State of Windows on the Desktop


Jim Cockfield wrote:

It is *very* definitely illegal to use libraries like libdvdcss (like VLC media player and many other apps use) to bypass and decrypt the content on commercial DVDs if you want to play them on Linux distros (at least in the U.S.).

Guess I had better start watching movies on the frickin' TV, then! It will be a big sacrifice - 24" screen instead of a laptop.

If I were to watch Jonathan Livingston Seagu;l and The Lion King followed by Day of the Dolphin while on a transcontinental airline flight, I could be accused of transporting gulls across staid lions for immortal porpoises.

 

[Don_Campbell]

CAcreeks wrote:

[snip...]

So with GIMP and Aftershot, the only things I know Linux can't do are Quicken (not on Mac either!) and TurboTax. Movie editing is still an unknown. I had problems editing HD with OpenShot perhaps due to only 2GB memory.

Don_Campbell wrote:

http://www.linux.com/learn/docs/689416-weekend-project-linux-for-beginners

Carla Schroder is one of the better writers on the subject of Linux. This looks like a good article to start with in addition to what folks have written here.

I have run TurboTax since the 80's when it was a DOS program. Since 1998, I have run Turbo Tax under Linux in various Windows versions running in various VMs. Currently I run TTax under XPHome in VirtualBox.

For me VirtualBox is a satisfactory way to run Windows and I am unwilling to be a Linux purist to the point of discarding tools that I prefer and cannot get satisfactory Linux replacements for. A VM is way more convenient than dual booting and Windows runs quickly and well in its little sandbox. It allows me to use several things that are not available to me in Linux. For instance, I have two scanners that I got as super closeout bargain prices which did not have Linux drivers. I run WordPerfect which I greatly prefer to either Word or LibreOffice (although I use LibreOffice in Linux for a lot of simple documents). I recently installed Canon's DPP which came with my SX50 camera in the same Windows VM. I wanted to be able to compare what DPP does with SX50 raw images to what I can do with RawTherapee (DPP does quite a good job although I still prefer RawTherapee).

Don

 

[kelpdiver]

Jim Cockfield wrote:

IOW, you're breaking existing laws in many regions by playing that type of content using most Linux distros that allow it.

It's breaking the law using dvd decyptor as well to put the DVDs I PAID FOR in a format that lets me use it the way I want. F$$$ the DCMA which is a complete violation of established fair use case law.


And then playing in on the linux distro is perfectly legal!

 

[Phil_MI]

Fedora 18 released today! Looking for the latest Linux with cutting edge packages look no further here it is. Fedora is the child of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and a test bed for applications that will eventually end up in the Enterprise release.

You can dual-boot if you wish or run it from a usb device or disc or even from a virtual machine. To many choices I know and thousands of free applications to choose from too. Excellent support from forum members who care. Just my opinion from my experience with Red Hat/Fedora for 10 years.

phil

 

[Don_Campbell]

Phil_MI wrote:

Fedora 18 released today! Looking for the latest Linux with cutting edge packages look no further here it is. Fedora is the child of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and a test bed for applications that will eventually end up in the Enterprise release.

You can dual-boot if you wish or run it from a usb device or disc or even from a virtual machine. To many choices I know and thousands of free applications to choose from too. Excellent support from forum members who care. Just my opinion from my experience with Red Hat/Fedora for 10 years.

phil

I sort of agree and sort of disagree. I like Fedora a lot and its predecessors from RH have been my only desktop distro since 1997. On the other hand it can be a challenge in two ways: 1) Fedora eschews "proprietary" software and non-free software (as in freedom) and that makes installing proprietary drivers and codecs for multimedia a post-install process. Not hard if you start from the right instructions but not as convenient as having them all within the distro's repository. 2) Fedora is cutting edge and that means that the mechanisms for doing some kinds of administrative things are not as well documented as the older mechanisms used by other distros. In other words, generic instructions about how to setup this or that may not be the current "Fedora way." That can be a little bewildering to new users.

I haven't tried Jim's suggestion of using Kororaa and it might not be ready to go for F18 but it may be a better beginner's way into Fedora:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50644863

Don

 

[Don_Campbell]

A parody with some reality that will amuse some:

http://www.brankovukelic.com/2013/01/on-state-of-windows-on-desktop.html

 

[Jim Cockfield]

Don_Campbell wrote:

I haven't tried Jim's suggestion of using Kororaa and it might not be ready to go for F18 but it may be a better beginner's way into Fedora:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50644863


Don

Not yet. But, Chris (the project developer) posted today that a new beta based on Fedora 18 should be out within the next two weeks

https://kororaa.org/2013/01/korora-18-on-the-way/


He tends to lag behind Fedora (waiting for a new Fedora release to go "Final" before working out the "kinks" for each new Kororaa release), usually with a Beta first, then fixing any reported bugs before releasing a new Kororaa production version.

That's the same approach you usually see with "respins" of other major distros (for example, Linux Mint will usually wait until a new Ubuntu release goes final, before publishing new release candidates and then a final version based on it).

 

[Don_Campbell]

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Don_Campbell wrote:

I haven't tried Jim's suggestion of using Kororaa and it might not be ready to go for F18 but it may be a better beginner's way into Fedora:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50644863

Don

Not yet. But, Chris (the project developer) posted today that a new beta based on Fedora 18 should be out within the next two weeks

https://kororaa.org/2013/01/korora-18-on-the-way/

He tends to lag behind Fedora (waiting for a new Fedora release to go "Final" before working out the "kinks" for each new Kororaa release), usually with a Beta first, then fixing any reported bugs before releasing a new Kororaa production version.

That's the same approach you usually see with "respins" of other major distros (for example, Linux Mint will usually wait until a new Ubuntu release goes final, before publishing new release candidates and then a final version based on it).

 

[CAcreeks]

Don_Campbell wrote:

A parody with some reality that will amuse some:

http://www.brankovukelic.com/2013/01/on-state-of-windows-on-desktop.html

That is hilarious!

He didn't even try Windows 8, so at least it is fair. Cruel, but fair.

Personally I do not like the Windows 7 Aero interface, but 7 can be set back to Classic theme.

 

[Phil_MI]

Don_Campbell wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Don_Campbell wrote:

I haven't tried Jim's suggestion of using Kororaa and it might not be ready to go for F18 but it may be a better beginner's way into Fedora:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50644863


Don

Not yet. But, Chris (the project developer) posted today that a new beta based on Fedora 18 should be out within the next two weeks

https://kororaa.org/2013/01/korora-18-on-the-way/


He tends to lag behind Fedora (waiting for a new Fedora release to go "Final" before working out the "kinks" for each new Kororaa release), usually with a Beta first, then fixing any reported bugs before releasing a new Kororaa production version.

That's the same approach you usually see with "respins" of other major distros (for example, Linux Mint will usually wait until a new Ubuntu release goes final, before publishing new release candidates and then a final version based on it).

 

[Don_Campbell]

Phil_MI wrote:

Don_Campbell wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Don_Campbell wrote:

I haven't tried Jim's suggestion of using Kororaa and it might not be ready to go for F18 but it may be a better beginner's way into Fedora:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50644863

Don

Not yet. But, Chris (the project developer) posted today that a new beta based on Fedora 18 should be out within the next two weeks

https://kororaa.org/2013/01/korora-18-on-the-way/

He tends to lag behind Fedora (waiting for a new Fedora release to go "Final" before working out the "kinks" for each new Kororaa release), usually with a Beta first, then fixing any reported bugs before releasing a new Kororaa production version.

That's the same approach you usually see with "respins" of other major distros (for example, Linux Mint will usually wait until a new Ubuntu release goes final, before publishing new release candidates and then a final version based on it).

 

[Doug J]

CAcreeks wrote:

Don_Campbell wrote:

A parody with some reality that will amuse some:

http://www.brankovukelic.com/2013/01/on-state-of-windows-on-desktop.html

That is hilarious!

He didn't even try Windows 8, so at least it is fair. Cruel, but fair.

Personally I do not like the Windows 7 Aero interface, but 7 can be set back to Classic theme.

Great stuff, a nice take on Windows. But guys keep it real (if real exists), read this thread on the multitude of Linux distros, which one is stable, or maybe not, or not yet...drivers, dual boot, VM, VB, which proggies are compatible.... All of it very good and informative, but reminds me of the early pre-PC days - do I load CP/M or DOS from my 5-1/4" floppy, back in the Z89 days LOL. And then came hard drives & Win286...

I'll dig into this when I return from my current road trip, should be an interesting journey.

 

[Don_Campbell]

Doug J wrote:

CAcreeks wrote:

Don_Campbell wrote:

A parody with some reality that will amuse some:

http://www.brankovukelic.com/2013/01/on-state-of-windows-on-desktop.html

That is hilarious!

He didn't even try Windows 8, so at least it is fair. Cruel, but fair.

Personally I do not like the Windows 7 Aero interface, but 7 can be set back to Classic theme.

Great stuff, a nice take on Windows. But guys keep it real (if real exists), read this thread on the multitude of Linux distros, which one is stable, or maybe not, or not yet...drivers, dual boot, VM, VB, which proggies are compatible....

Yeah, choice presents such problems. How does one survive in the cereal aisle of the supermarket or driving down the road looking for a place to grab lunch? You start out by consciously or unconsciously reducing the choices on some basis or another. You don't like sugar laden cereals or you don't want fried chicken or something....

The contributions to this thread were mostly meant to make your choices easier but of course then you have detail to work around and tradeoffs to work out.

All of it very good and informative, but reminds me of the early pre-PC days - do I load CP/M or DOS from my 5-1/4" floppy, back in the Z89 days LOL. And then came hard drives & Win286...

Yup. Think instead if you had asked for security advice after repairing a Windows system struck by a virus. You'd have lots of security advice about this or that antivirus program or firewall or new version of Windows or what not. Still choices--just not so many of them involving versions of Windows.

The foremost piece of advice is to start out with a distribution that has lots of users and a reputation of being easy for beginners to start with. It is especially important to choose one that has a user group that is active and easy to tap for specific help when stuck.

I'll repeat my advice to look at this article:

http://www.linux.com/learn/docs/689416-weekend-project-linux-for-beginners

It's a new article, it is current and Carla Schroder is one of the best writers on the technical aspects of using Linux.

Finally, if things don't work out the first time out you can nuke what you installed and start again for free. You can't beat that cost of tuition.

PS added in editing:

In 2007 I wrote a book about switching from Windows to Linux. In it I warned about "guru books" that proposed to tell you about one or another distribution and how to use it. The point was that Linux changes fast enough that the target is moving and the book will be out of date before it is published. I self-published that book and it sold one copy (I don't know to whom, but probably one of my friends). People took my advice about not relying on printed books without even buying my book for the advice.

The point is that the information you need is on the Internet and available for free. The best information is advice from knowledgeable users but of course, as you point out, that presents you with choices and you still need to be the chooser.

Good luck with it and keep us informed about your Linux journey,

Don

I'll dig into this when I return from my current road trip, should be an interesting journey.

--
Best regards,
Doug
Bird galleries on PBase
General photography galleries on PBase

 

[Jim Cockfield]

kelpdiver wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

IOW, you're breaking existing laws in many regions by playing that type of content using most Linux distros that allow it.

It's breaking the law using dvd decyptor as well to put the DVDs I PAID FOR in a format that lets me use it the way I want. F$$$ the DCMA which is a complete violation of established fair use case law.

And then playing in on the linux distro is perfectly legal!

The anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA is pretty crazy. More about that here, where you're in violation of the DMCA using a product that decrypts or bypasses the copy protection (which is what the libdvdcss library is doing):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention#Circumvention_of_Access_Controls


But, the courts have upheld some of the cases about it. For example, RealNetworks had a product that allowed copying of DVDs to your hard drive that ended up in court, and the courts ruled in favor of the DVD Copy Control Control Association (and the appeal process ended up in that ruling being upheld). More about that court case here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealNetworks,_Inc._v._DVD_Copy_Control_Association,_Inc.


I don't see them going after end users that rip DVDs for personal use.

But, they're probably going to go after any major vendor of software that tries to produce software for that purpose in the U.S. -- citing violation of the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA. Ditto for any product that allows playback of DVDs without a licensed player (e.g., one that uses libdvdcss to bypass the copy protection by trying to guess the keys needed for decryption).

Heck... even Handbrake (a French Company) no longer includes the libdvdcss library with it's builds, because some of the European laws are vague, and they probably didn't want to risk including decryption of DVDs by default.

But, it will use the libdvdcss library from videolan.org (and so far, they've been brave enough to include it with VLC). However, a U.S. Company would be asking for trouble if they tried to distribute a library that bypasses copy protection, since that would be in violation of the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA.

 

[CAcreeks]

Today (with JimC's help) I wrote a USB stick with Linux Mint 14 Cinnamon desktop, and booted my Mint 13 laptop from it.

Mint 14 has GIMP 2.8 instead of 2.6 in Mint 13.

Overall the menu structure and application availability seem similar to MATE desktop. More desktop controls work than did in Cinnamon 13. I was able to move the taskbar panel to top of screen. However I am sick of the boring gray burnished-metal look that has been in vogue for several years now. I was able to find a theme and layout that gave me blue active-title bar, but could not figure out how to change blue to a different color.

Bottom line: I don't see the point. Cinnamon sounds appetizing but it has no particular advantage over MATE desktop, and seems less mature. Perhaps someone can correct me by saying Cinnamon performs better, or something. Seems about the same.

With today's overly wide LCD panels influenced by movies, what I want is to have all the controls piled up on left or right, not top or bottom. MATE can move the taskbar panel to left or right, but all the words are rotated, and layout is buggy.

 

[CAcreeks]

I was pleasantly surprised tonight when I wanted to print from my (used hardware but new Linux OS) Dell laptop.

Just clicked Control Center > Printing > Add > Network Printer. It found our Canon MG6200 on the wireless network, downloaded the driver, and I printed a PDF file.

Linux is unbelievably mature compared to how it was about five years ago.