Let's face it (long rant)

[light_bulb]

Rant3d

A camera is a sensor, sensor and sensor – oh I forgot to mention the sensor. I have jumped ship to another sensor, ah camera. The first copies of that one came with some cream cheese accidentally dropped on it and visible in the pictures. It even gave them an unusual smell. Since the sensor was so new the cream cheese was fresh and I enjoyed it. If I jump ship I have to convince everybody day and night that I was right.

You must be someone who apparently doesn't have a very good brain to read everything and selectively pick on an idea you have on your head, so let me try to help you a bit here. In this very forum I have:

• posted photos than most here
• provided information on how to use Olympus equipment for photographic purposes
• always said that it is the photographer and not the camera, who creates photos
• that I think the EM5 is a fantastic camera, particularly because of its entire package at a good price. Also I have never said its sensor is bad.

When you see me taking contention with "sensor" and other equipment related stuff is to put a realistic view on false expectations, false clams and false assessments. You may want to think about the following: if I am talking about the sensor very often, someone else started a claim on that end talking about.. er.. a sensor.

Ah, and you feel that the world has waited for you to react on every piece of that?

The problem with people like you is apparently they can't comprehend the idea that I may not be attached to a brand. You may notice that I really don't push Pentax pictures here, or push the camera per se on a regular basis, except when someone else brings it up.

This is plain nonsense. Not that I owe you any explanations, but I also use Pentax 645. I am still in the process what additional non-Oly camera I will use with my Zuiko OM and Pentax 645 lenses (besides renting a 645D). Most likely I will end up with a 5DII since the D800 may be overspecified pixelwise as well as too tiresome with the Zuiko lenses (Leitax) and I do not need the 5DIII features. Time will tell.

Not that I owe you any explanations, but maybe this can help you. I am way past this little jedi mind trick some try to play here. Maybe you could post more photos here? That may stir the subject to something you would like to see.

You must be someone who apparently doesn't have sufficient capacity to handle irony at least when it is you who seems to be adressed by it. Therefore you escape into direct attack.

As to your sensor rants I was not referring to the OM-D but the E-5 and you will know that pretty well. I agree that the E-5's sensor left things to be desired but I was puzzled by the multitude of interventions that you have made here on this matter.

I do not look at your pictures. If you were anonymous to me I might do so but the way you behave here makes me stay away from them. There are plenty of other pictures to look at on internet.

I was not active in posting pictures on internet over the last year for time constraints and other priorities.

 

[Moti]

I find it funny how some people here completely agree with what the OP have said above and a short time later, are sowing a personal example of the things he was actually complaining about.

Moti

--
http://www.pixpix.be
http://www.musicalpix.com (under construction)

 

[Great Bustard]

You are right in many ways Charles.

However it remains to be an open question why some folks permanently engage in this forum to spread their negativity towards Olympus. Whenever I come here I can see them ranked high as top posters.

Who, specifically is "spreading their negativity towards Olympus"? I'm sure you can't be referring to me:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=39112335

So who are you referring to? Why so shy to name names? When I make an accusation, I'm never shy to say the player's number and the penalty.

The worst thing that can happen is the high-jacking of a thread on to an off-topic route of their usual flavours. Off-topic is subject to moderation on many forums except for dpr. This usually stops this sort of nonsense. The other thing that can be done is to stay away from the typical threads these folks engage in.

Well, let's take this thread, as an example. We have an unnecesary snipe at the "usual suspects" in the very OP, and then some whining that the thread was taken OT when the OP is called on it.

But, let's take another example:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40706029

Kodachrome, long time ago.
No ultra-shallow DoF gimmicks, but fantastic photos nevertheless.

Again, we see the OP taking an unnecessary swipe at a form of photography they want to disparage, for whatever reason.

Now follow the subthread that ensued beginning here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40707953

Who is it that takes the thread OT? I'm thinking it began here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40708618

No. Depth of field is directly related to field of view and focal length at any given aperture. Due to some of the misinformation thrown about in "equivalency debates" people assume that the larger the format, the smaller the aperture it takes to achieve a given dof. That's only one variable.

Hmm -- there's a familiar face. Anyway, if you disagree, please, by all means, tell me where the thread lost it's "focus" (please excuse the pun!).

So maybe, just maybe, if you were able to post some specifics, it would help clarify your point. Or maybe what we would find instead is that the "usual suspects" aren't the ones who are cast in that role, and that the problem isn't people disparaging Olympus, but Olympus fans disparaging other systems.

 

[Raist3d]

Rant3d

A camera is a sensor, sensor and sensor – oh I forgot to mention the sensor. I have jumped ship to another sensor, ah camera. The first copies of that one came with some cream cheese accidentally dropped on it and visible in the pictures. It even gave them an unusual smell. Since the sensor was so new the cream cheese was fresh and I enjoyed it. If I jump ship I have to convince everybody day and night that I was right.

You must be someone who apparently doesn't have a very good brain to read everything and selectively pick on an idea you have on your head, so let me try to help you a bit here. In this very forum I have:

• posted photos than most here
• provided information on how to use Olympus equipment for photographic purposes
• always said that it is the photographer and not the camera, who creates photos
• that I think the EM5 is a fantastic camera, particularly because of its entire package at a good price. Also I have never said its sensor is bad.

When you see me taking contention with "sensor" and other equipment related stuff is to put a realistic view on false expectations, false clams and false assessments. You may want to think about the following: if I am talking about the sensor very often, someone else started a claim on that end talking about.. er.. a sensor.

Ah, and you feel that the world has waited for you to react on every piece of that?

That's not what I said nor imply. And don't sidestep the point, the point is no, it's not like you mischaracterize me to be.

The problem with people like you is apparently they can't comprehend the idea that I may not be attached to a brand. You may notice that I really don't push Pentax pictures here, or push the camera per se on a regular basis, except when someone else brings it up.

This is plain nonsense.

It's not. I didn't bring that up- you did so by consequence: " If I jump ship I have to convince everybody day and night that I was right." That's what you said, it's right there. You were putting words in my mouth. The "I" up there refers to me as you clearly stated, does it not?

Not that I owe you any explanations, but I also use Pentax 645.

I didn't ask you for any.

I am still in the process what additional non-Oly camera I will use with my Zuiko OM and Pentax 645 lenses (besides renting a 645D). Most likely I will end up with a 5DII since the D800 may be overspecified pixelwise as well as too tiresome with the Zuiko lenses (Leitax) and I do not need the 5DIII features. Time will tell.

I was not talk about you but what you tried to portray as what I would say or attitude I espouse. Please read more carefully.

Not that I owe you any explanations, but maybe this can help you. I am way past this little jedi mind trick some try to play here. Maybe you could post more photos here? That may stir the subject to something you would like to see.

You must be someone who apparently doesn't have sufficient capacity to handle irony at least when it is you who seems to be adressed by it. Therefore you escape into direct attack.

I do, the problem is that you are trying to make a point through irony that is false. I am merely pointing that out. Is hilarious to me then you say "therefore you escape into direct attack" when that's pretty much what you did. And if your point is "indirect attacks are ok through irony" it's a bit like saying "as long as it's delivered in a different way, it's ok, bad intentions don't count, no worries." I find that more the attitude of a coward honestly, but hey. Not everyone has the integrity to look eye to eye.

As to your sensor rants I was not referring to the OM-D but the E-5 and you will know that pretty well. I agree that the E-5's sensor left things to be desired but I was puzzled by the multitude of interventions that you have made here on this matter.

Again, if you look it was due to the outrageous claims made about it. I even, as I have said many times recommended the E-5 quite a few times. In fact, I recently recommended someone to think carefully before jumping ship, but what you write here would suggest I wouldn't write such thing.

I do not look at your pictures. If you were anonymous to me I might do so but the way you behave here makes me stay away from them. There are plenty of other pictures to look at on internet.

You may not look at my pictures, but that doesn't invalidate the point I made. In fact it furthers makes the point. You decided to paint me with a wrong brush, and now admitting that you don't even exactly know what you are talking about you just come up with something lame.

Hey, it was you who brought this up, not me. See how that happens? Sort of like those sensors…

I was not active in posting pictures on internet over the last year for time constraints and other priorities.

Sure. As I said, most people that complain about stuff that "oh gosh I am not interested in reading but somehow I must" or the like, seem to have a severe lack of picture taking or showing for some reason . It's rather curious to me.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

 

[light_bulb]

I find it too tiresome to enter into another round of arguing with you and do expect that others feel the same.

The main argument of this thread is that quite a bit of technical arguing and related personal attacks is at least superfluous in many threads and it might help if you would not overly engage in this like I try to do.

Probably you will then no longer show up as a top poster but it can be cast doubt on what is top about that anyway.

Rant3d

--
http://home.fotocommunity.de/andreaspastowski

 

[Raist3d]

I find it too tiresome to enter into another round of arguing with you and do expect that others feel the same.

Well, you brought the torch. You are basically expecting to say something that doesn't have validity and then just keep it posted verbatim. I would say that's a rather misguided expectation to have.

The main argument of this thread is that quite a bit of technical arguing and related personal attacks is at least superfluous in many threads and it might help if you would not overly engage in this like I try to do.

Hmmm not that I agree but basically you are saying "don't do as I do?" Is that what I just read?

Probably you will then no longer show up as a top poster but it can be cast doubt on what is top about that anyway.

Another false claim- look at the last 6 months and see if I have been the top poster. It's not me, nor do I see you going after those.

Rant3d

--
http://home.fotocommunity.de/andreaspastowski

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

 

[Carloskbco]

I agree with your opening post...

It was a good post until those jerks hijacked it...you know, the usual ones...



Carlos

 

[Great Bustard]

I agree with your opening post...

It was a good post until those jerks hijacked it...you know, the usual ones...

You mean the same "usual jerks" who are participating in Charles' new threads on photography that, not coincidentally began after one of the "usual jerks" suggested a thread on photography might not be more productive?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40857623

Thing is, I like techincal dicussions, and I like discussions on photography, too, so I guess you could say I'm "well rounded" so far as DPR discussion go. Say, here's an idea: instead of making bogus claims and starting "entertainment" threads, why not start a thread on photography? How about posting a few pics, even?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=40859230

(As a favor to GB, who thinks I should post photos...)

Interesting how this thread draws more action than threads on photography, isn't it? Almost as if "entertainment" threads are more most peoples' speed.

 

[TrapperJohn]

are not gear obsessed. They are staying in business obsessed. Being in the right place at the right time obsessed. Promoting their business obsessed. Not blowing a shoot obsessed.

They are less concerned with one feature or another, and more concerned with being on time, in place, with functional gear. That is the primary reason that Nikon and Canon own the pro market - they have a world wide service organization that can get you functional gear in some pretty exotic locations, on very short notice.

It's not an easy life, I know one PJ/sports shooter, and one wedding/event shooter (who actually runs a crew of three or four). They're always hustling somewhere, you take business however you can get it. For every Annie Liebovitz, there are thousands of these bread and butter photographers.

And, no, they don't hang out on dpr getting into these long, drawn out theoretical debates. Don't have the time - got to catch a plane to get to the next shoot.

 

[Moti]

TrapperJohn wrote:.

And, no, they don't hang out on dpr getting into these long, drawn out theoretical debates. Don't have the time - got to catch a plane to get to the next shoot.

I agree that not many pros lurk here in DPR for the simple reason that DPR is not a pro oriented place. However, rest assured that many prose spend lots of time in dedicated forums such as DWF for weddings and portraits, where you can find some of the greatest photographers in the world communicating, exchanging information, showing their work, and you'll be surprised, also talking gear issues exactly like here but in a more civilised way.

I find it wonderful being able to meet pros from all over the world and to learn from each other. No one complains about lack time because The advantage of this profession is that you can manage your own time the way you want.

Together with my wife, we run a small photography business doing weddings, events and product photography. True we worked very hard during the first two years to establish the business but now, we limit ourselves to not more than 25 weddings per year, musical events that I would have even shot for free and product shooting because I find it exciting.

We make a decent income and yet, this leaves us enough free time for the family, photography as a hobby, travelling, master classes and even spending some time here in DPR and we enjoy every moment of what we are doing.

I think that those workoholics who are obsessed only about their business and have never the time for other things, miss something very important - life.

Moti

--
http://www.pixpix.be
http://www.musicalpix.com

 

[John Mason]

Lots of good stuff in the long rant.

My short version of same can be summed up in the phrase:

"detractor posts"

some people just live to post detractor posts

You named no one specific but the people you might perhaps have had in mind popped right up (often with extensive cross referenced posts).

Some people just have way too much time on their hands.

I consciously attempt to post in an 'additive' and 'helpful' way rather than going out of my way to be a 'detractor'.

And a lot of what you are complaining about is not that what a detractor post contains, which is often true as far as facts go. It's that the detractor posts often have little to do with the original thread and amount to a subject hijack.

It's an interesting mindset the detractor post person has. If I was a psychologist I'm sure I'd be able to speculate on the almost visceral needs these folks have to prowl forums and squash what they perceive as false information.

I have been a moderator on a sports forum before and I can tell you at that forum, these types of individuals would have been bounced and banned long ago.

On a loosely run forum like this, it's really best to not engage them. Which when I get the inevitable replies to what I just wrote to no one in particular I will not engage them.

Interesting thread and very self illustrative of your premise. In that regard, very entertaining!
--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

http://www.fototime.com/inv/407B931C53A9D9D

 

[Great Bustard]

Lots of good stuff in the long rant.

My short version of same can be summed up in the phrase:

"detractor posts"

some people just live to post detractor posts

You named no one specific but the people you might perhaps have had in mind popped right up (often with extensive cross referenced posts).

Some people just have way too much time on their hands.

I consciously attempt to post in an 'additive' and 'helpful' way rather than going out of my way to be a 'detractor'.

And a lot of what you are complaining about is not that what a detractor post contains, which is often true as far as facts go. It's that the detractor posts often have little to do with the original thread and amount to a subject hijack.

It's an interesting mindset the detractor post person has. If I was a psychologist I'm sure I'd be able to speculate on the almost visceral needs these folks have to prowl forums and squash what they perceive as false information.

I have been a moderator on a sports forum before and I can tell you at that forum, these types of individuals would have been bounced and banned long ago.

On a loosely run forum like this, it's really best to not engage them. Which when I get the inevitable replies to what I just wrote to no one in particular I will not engage them.

Interesting thread and very self illustrative of your premise. In that regard, very entertaining!
--

...is this post an example of:

I consciously attempt to post in an 'additive' and 'helpful' way rather than going out of my way to be a 'detractor'.

'Cause from where I sit, your post is nothing more than pure "entertainment", like most of the thread, as it addresses nothing but the "entertainment" in the thread, which the same cheap snide remarks that were in the OP.

And the fact that you cite yourself as an example of a moderator, well, that speaks volumes to me.

 

[CollBaxter]

A police man once told me a story about how they caught a guy who stole a watch out of a locker room. They got all the men in a room and he shouted “ Who was the guy that dropped the watch ?” they nabbed the guy who felt his pockets and retrieved the watch.
--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

http://collinbaxter.zenfolio.com/
http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

 

[John Mason]

On a similar note I learned from a trip to Italy where we had some issues with pickpockets, the pickpockets hang around the warning signs that are in English at the Colosseum subway stop. They are big signs in English that read 'danger, known pick-pocketing area' or something like that. In a similar fashion to what you stated, all the tourist types instantly feel for their money when they read the sign.

Having not read any replies except yours to my detractor post, I'm assuming what you wrote was perhaps relevant to a post I did not waste my time reading?

A police man once told me a story about how they caught a guy who stole a watch out of a locker room. They got all the men in a room and he shouted “ Who was the guy that dropped the watch ?” they nabbed the guy who felt his pockets and retrieved the watch.
--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

http://collinbaxter.zenfolio.com/
http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

http://www.fototime.com/inv/407B931C53A9D9D

 

[CollBaxter]

On a similar note I learned from a trip to Italy where we had some issues with pickpockets, the pickpockets hang around the warning signs that are in English at the Colosseum subway stop. They are big signs in English that read 'danger, known pick-pocketing area' or something like that. In a similar fashion to what you stated, all the tourist types instantly feel for their money when they read the sign.

Having not read any replies except yours to my detractor post, I'm assuming what you wrote was perhaps relevant to a post I did not waste my time reading?

A police man once told me a story about how they caught a guy who stole a watch out of a locker room. They got all the men in a room and he shouted “ Who was the guy that dropped the watch ?” they nabbed the guy who felt his pockets and retrieved the watch.

"Having not read any replies except yours to my detractor post, I'm assuming what you wrote was perhaps relevant to a post I did not waste my time reading "

You are correct.

--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

http://collinbaxter.zenfolio.com/
http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

http://www.fototime.com/inv/407B931C53A9D9D

--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

http://collinbaxter.zenfolio.com/
http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

 

[Great Bustard]

"Having not read any replies except yours to my detractor post, I'm assuming what you wrote was perhaps relevant to a post I did not waste my time reading "

You are correct.

...for extending the entertainment. I would expect no less.