K1ii Noise Reduction Customization

[Salik Tirmizi]

Is this kind of issue present in K-5/K-3II or only newer bodies are exhibiting due to that Accelerator Chip?

The Accelerator Chip is only in the K-70, KP and K-1 II.

The previous pentax bodies does have some light raw NR at higher ISO, I can see it on my K-3 at iso 12800.

Also note that the NR setting is a bit more complicated than it looks, if you set it to OFF your jpeg still have a bit of NR if you don't use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

Basically for NR:

default sharpening + NR OFF = fine sharpening + NR LOW = extra sharpening + NR MEDIUM

So if you want the lowest NR possible in your Jpegs use EXTRA sharpening.

Thank you for your tip so what about Raw files in previous bodies.

 

[Florida Suse]

Is this kind of issue present in K-5/K-3II or only newer bodies are exhibiting due to that Accelerator Chip?

The Accelerator Chip is only in the K-70, KP and K-1 II.

The previous pentax bodies does have some light raw NR at higher ISO, I can see it on my K-3 at iso 12800.

Also note that the NR setting is a bit more complicated than it looks, if you set it to OFF your jpeg still have a bit of NR if you don't use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

Basically for NR:

default sharpening + NR OFF = fine sharpening + NR LOW = extra sharpening + NR MEDIUM

Liff, can you explain this a little more, I would like to understand this. I was changing the different sharpening levels and trying to determine which one to set. I have the k1ii and shoot portraits. So if my NR is at default, I need fine sharpening?

So if you want the lowest NR possible in your Jpegs use EXTRA sharpening.

 

[Lyff]

Is this kind of issue present in K-5/K-3II or only newer bodies are exhibiting due to that Accelerator Chip?

The Accelerator Chip is only in the K-70, KP and K-1 II.

The previous pentax bodies does have some light raw NR at higher ISO, I can see it on my K-3 at iso 12800.

Also note that the NR setting is a bit more complicated than it looks, if you set it to OFF your jpeg still have a bit of NR if you don't use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

Basically for NR:

default sharpening + NR OFF = fine sharpening + NR LOW = extra sharpening + NR MEDIUM

Liff, can you explain this a little more, I would like to understand this. I was changing the different sharpening levels and trying to determine which one to set. I have the k1ii and shoot portraits. So if my NR is at default, I need fine sharpening?

So if you want the lowest NR possible in your Jpegs use EXTRA sharpening.

default, fine and extra sharpening change two things, the sharpening radius and the level of noise reduction applied to jpegs. That doesn't matter if you shoot raw, but if you want to reduce the noise reduction to the minimum you must use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

EXTRA = NR at its real setting, FINE = setting +1, and default = setting +2.

So if you set FINE sharpening with NR on low the level of noise reduction is comparable to the EXTRA sharpening with NR on medium, or the default sharpening with NR on OFF.

 

[hectorpatrick]

Rishi,

Why did you use different focal length lenses on the K1 and K1 II in a supposed direct comparison? This surely invalidates your test. I ask as a current K1 owner looking to upgrade.

 

[Florida Suse]

Is this kind of issue present in K-5/K-3II or only newer bodies are exhibiting due to that Accelerator Chip?

The Accelerator Chip is only in the K-70, KP and K-1 II.

The previous pentax bodies does have some light raw NR at higher ISO, I can see it on my K-3 at iso 12800.

Also note that the NR setting is a bit more complicated than it looks, if you set it to OFF your jpeg still have a bit of NR if you don't use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

Basically for NR:

default sharpening + NR OFF = fine sharpening + NR LOW = extra sharpening + NR MEDIUM

Liff, can you explain this a little more, I would like to understand this. I was changing the different sharpening levels and trying to determine which one to set. I have the k1ii and shoot portraits. So if my NR is at default, I need fine sharpening?

So if you want the lowest NR possible in your Jpegs use EXTRA sharpening.

default, fine and extra sharpening change two things, the sharpening radius and the level of noise reduction applied to jpegs. That doesn't matter if you shoot raw, but if you want to reduce the noise reduction to the minimum you must use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

EXTRA = NR at its real setting, FINE = setting +1, and default = setting +2.

So if you set FINE sharpening with NR on low the level of noise reduction is comparable to the EXTRA sharpening with NR on medium, or the default sharpening with NR on OFF.

Thank you! And sorry I keep asking questions.

So if I set sharpening to fine, I need to then go into the menu under 'noise reduction' and set NR to low, or does this happen automatically.

 

[Lessiter]

Rishi,

Why did you use different focal length lenses on the K1 and K1 II in a supposed direct comparison? This surely invalidates your test. I ask as a current K1 owner looking to upgrade.

Other pentax reviews have been criticised for using a lens designed for portraiture (77) . With comments on the age and distinct qualities of the lens. If I remember correctly the macro was suggested by pentaxians. The comparison to the K-1 might suffer but its supposed to be a more suitable lens for charts.

 

[hectorpatrick]

Whether the 50 macro or the 77 is the better lens was not an issue in the test. To make a valid comparison, the same model of lens used for the K1 tests should have been used for the K1ii review. If it had and the results were as published than it would have prevented a lot of the hot air that's been generated and DPR would have been justified in their claim of inferior image quality for the K1 ii when tested under identical conditions to the K1.

 

[Iliah Borg]

Baking NR into the RAW is just bad, always.

If done in digital domain and can be replicated in raw conversion, yes, it is bad.

Its also a DPR issue. Given their test images with a single mushy corner,

How is it relevant to NR?

They seem to conclude that even at base ISO the IQ is worse because of the NR.

A quote?

Just in case, from Fourier it is obvious that at ISO 100 the problem is horizontal banding. It is stronger than on K1 original. Banding gets worse when ISO goes up, hence the need (or excuse, if you prefer) in NR. A lot of raw converters don't have appropriate NR methods, and why Pentax should even rely on a third party to represent the image the way they, Pentax, see fit?

--
http://www.libraw.org/

 

[Lessiter]

Whether the 50 macro or the 77 is the better lens was not an issue in the test. To make a valid comparison, the same model of lens used for the K1 tests should have been used for the K1ii review.

The purpose of the review is not only to compare K-1 II against K-1. The data will be used in comparisons with upcoming cameras. By your logic they can never upgrade the lens and Pentax will for ever be judged by a lens brought to market in 1999. Because the issue will be the same with the next camera. Considering the kerfuffle, better comparisons betwen the versions of K-1 would be useful, but it's certainly not outrageous.

I'm much more critical of dpreviews habit of accepting and incorporating brand created events and photos into their reviews. That's not a very serious way of conducting a review business.

 

[BobORama]

Rishi,

Why did you use different focal length lenses on the K1 and K1 II in a supposed direct comparison? This surely invalidates your test. I ask as a current K1 owner looking to upgrade.

Can it be done in a way that takes the lens variables out of the equation? Yup.

For $2000-5000, depending on the coatings and how well color corrected, Thor Labs will gladly make you a custom finite conjugate that will ( as perfectly as is practical ) take a flat field scene at distance X and relay it to a ( presumably flat ) sensor at distance Y covering an image circle big enough to do FF or MF sensors. The typical performance of these will exceed 200 lp / mm. So imagine a purpose built "ideal" macro lens. This lens could be used for most bodies with similar mount depth. It would have resolution far in excess of any production sensor.

-- Bob
http://bob-o-rama.smugmug.com -- Photos
http://www.vimeo.com/boborama/videos -- Videos
http://blog.trafficshaper.com -- Blog

 

[K0d]

Something like an ultra micro nikkor?

 

[Iliah Borg]

Rishi,

Why did you use different focal length lenses on the K1 and K1 II in a supposed direct comparison? This surely invalidates your test. I ask as a current K1 owner looking to upgrade.

Can it be done in a way that takes the lens variables out of the equation? Yup.

For $2000-5000, depending on the coatings and how well color corrected, Thor Labs will gladly make you a custom finite conjugate that will ( as perfectly as is practical ) take a flat field scene at distance X and relay it to a ( presumably flat ) sensor at distance Y covering an image circle big enough to do FF or MF sensors. The typical performance of these will exceed 200 lp / mm. So imagine a purpose built "ideal" macro lens. This lens could be used for most bodies with similar mount depth. It would have resolution far in excess of any production sensor.

That hardly characterizes a real-life system.

 

[Lyff]

Is this kind of issue present in K-5/K-3II or only newer bodies are exhibiting due to that Accelerator Chip?

The Accelerator Chip is only in the K-70, KP and K-1 II.

The previous pentax bodies does have some light raw NR at higher ISO, I can see it on my K-3 at iso 12800.

Also note that the NR setting is a bit more complicated than it looks, if you set it to OFF your jpeg still have a bit of NR if you don't use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

Basically for NR:

default sharpening + NR OFF = fine sharpening + NR LOW = extra sharpening + NR MEDIUM

Liff, can you explain this a little more, I would like to understand this. I was changing the different sharpening levels and trying to determine which one to set. I have the k1ii and shoot portraits. So if my NR is at default, I need fine sharpening?

So if you want the lowest NR possible in your Jpegs use EXTRA sharpening.

default, fine and extra sharpening change two things, the sharpening radius and the level of noise reduction applied to jpegs. That doesn't matter if you shoot raw, but if you want to reduce the noise reduction to the minimum you must use the EXTRA sharpening setting.

EXTRA = NR at its real setting, FINE = setting +1, and default = setting +2.

So if you set FINE sharpening with NR on low the level of noise reduction is comparable to the EXTRA sharpening with NR on medium, or the default sharpening with NR on OFF.

Thank you! And sorry I keep asking questions.

So if I set sharpening to fine, I need to then go into the menu under 'noise reduction' and set NR to low, or does this happen automatically.

No you need to set it to your liking, because even if you set it to OFF but the sharpening is on its default setting you still have some NR as I explained before.