K10D sharpness issue!

Come to your own conclusions, but the bright completely negates this
"problem"
Please stop already with the Bright fixing the problem stuff. It adds more dark side texture sharpening. And more saturation. And more contrast.

It doesn't offer the option of acutance sharpening, and doesn't come as close AS IT CAN to the DR and clarity of the K10D converted RAW. The jpg's will never be the same as a well converted K10D RAW file, but better in-camera jpg processing can bring it closer as has been done on a couple of comparable cameras with the identical sensor.

Larry
 
In my own tests however, the K10D's JPG output is far too soft for
professional output, especially at more significant print sizes. But for web
images, snapshots, etc, the JPGs are adequate.
And yes, for a thousand dollars (no, I don't care how much Canon overcharges for their 5D), Pentax can straighten out this "issue", and make it disappear by choice.

They simply can't keep hiding behind this "filmlike quality" ridiculous excuse, and at the same time produce phenomenal RAW output WITHOUT the soft "filmlike quality" excuse.

Why are the RAWs so great? Why not soften them up to produce a filmlike quality? Maybe put a very slight soft filter over the sensor when only a RAW will be used, and then the K10D will automatically remove it if jpg is chosen as the current processing will soften that up already. Both file type results can be similar then.

An upcoming firmware update refining the jpg processing algorithm and removing color pattern noise would go far in selling this camera if it is acknowledged by review sites like this along with simply making the K10D an even better tool. Even ChrisDM might stop qualifying his statements with 'I use my 5D for PROFESSIONAL use, and uh the K10D for other stuff.', and start using the K10D for professional stuff. Imagine!

Yes, I own a K10D ser. 222xxxx since Dec. 1, and would be mighty disheartened if Pentax introduces a "K10DS" at photokina this year that clarifies the jpgs, eliminates color pattern noise, meters manual lenses in M mode perfectly, and offers a 16bit raw file option - and abandons the owners with current K10D cameras with no more firmware fixes.

Larry
 
Yes, I own a K10D ser. 222xxxx since Dec. 1, and would be mighty
disheartened if Pentax introduces a "K10DS" at photokina this year
that clarifies the jpgs, eliminates color pattern noise, meters
manual lenses in M mode perfectly, and offers a 16bit raw file
option
You normally print A3+ from unprocessed JPEGs exposed for 30 seconds in M mode with manual lens and "push" underexposed 2 stops at ISO 1600? And, insisting on unprocessed JPEGs on default camera parameters, why would you need RAW at all and 16-bit RAW at that?

Are you sure you aren't just reciting every bit of negative info you ever read irrespective to your own usage and, more important, understanding of presumed fault's nature, scale and implications?

--
http://www.pbase.com/klopus
 
An upcoming firmware update refining the jpg processing algorithm
and removing color pattern noise would go far in selling this
camera if it is acknowledged by review sites like this along with
simply making the K10D an even better tool. Even ChrisDM might stop
qualifying his statements with 'I use my 5D for PROFESSIONAL use,
and uh the K10D for other stuff.', and start using the K10D for
professional stuff. Imagine!
Larry
Actually Larry, the reason I don't use the K10D professionally is that the Pentax system doesn't focus fast enough for wedding work. I don't get to call a re-shoot because I was waiting for my lens to aquire focus... But perhaps when Pentax comes out with the DA star lenses with the supersonic motors, my K10D will see more "pro" action. And I rarely, rarely shoot JPG (and never with my K10D), so the sharpness issue is a non-issue for me. It is an unfortunate quirk, but thanks to stellar RAW performance I don't lose any sleep over it.

--

Chris
http://www.imagineimagery.com
 
Hmm last time I checked you can adjust that boosted contrast and saturation. Also, don't you think that giants like Nikon and Sony would have realized this supposed unfound JPEG quality? What makes you think Pentax can? Certainly, you don't know more than these engineers. JPEG will always be a lower quality than RAW. Except it and move on.
--
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrswggl

Pentax k10d, Sigma 17-70, Pentax 50-200,
 
Hmm last time I checked you can adjust that boosted contrast and
saturation.
Yeah, but you are boosting textural sharpening, without an option to boost accutance/edge sharpening which will gain the results the hundreds of posts are asking for like is done in other comparable 10mp cameras with the same sensor. Offering this TYPE of sharpening would be listening to the desires of a large enough number of owners, and potential buyers thereby ending this issue already.
Also, don't you think that giants like Nikon and Sony would
have realized this supposed unfound JPEG quality?
Yes, they have. They simply put more importance on offering this level of jpg sharpness quality. Their problem is the opposite, in that you can't fully turn it off though based on sales, reviews, and owners this isn't as bad. It woiuld be a good thing for Pentax to allow the acutance sharpening option to not be used if so desired - if they realize the importance of ending all this by offering the option at all.
What makes you think > Pentax can? Certainly, you don't know more than > these engineers.
Because they can. If other companies can with this sensor, so can Pentax. They have to see that it is obvious the "filmlike" excuse doesn't work because the K10D RAW is sharper, negating that BS.

JPEG
will always be a lower quality than RAW. Except it and move on.
Yes, that's correct, but it can be closer as has already been done by others.

The word is "accept", not "except" though I realize your finger could have slipped.

Larry
 
Note that the original poster ... IrfanShariff ... has never
responded to any of these comments. We're just preaching to the
choir.
Enough.
--
Thanks,
Alan
LOL, 6 months ago it was about the K100 and 350D, in another six months it will be about something else.

--
If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?
  • Vince Lombardi
 
Could someone please post an image shot - full res - natural jpeg, bright and raw of the same subject same lighting etc. Everything the same exept the format that the images was saved to so that we can see the differences?

thx, gordo
 
I have been shooting film with Z1P for many years. Just like you and many others, I was to a large extent driven by reviews and decided the EOS 400 was the one I was going to purchase. But, after following this forum for several months, gathering a lot information (ofcourse some were bias or emotional), as a whole, this forum has been very informative and has helped me lot.

I bought the K10D in January. The value proposition of the K10D and experiences of forum members were the key drivers of my decision. I find it very fortunate to be able to access such a wealth of valuable information from this forum.

My conclusion is that the soft JPEG thing is simply ... mischievous.

--
LimCam
Brisbane, Australia
 
Could someone please post an image shot - full res - natural jpeg,
bright and raw of the same subject same lighting etc. Everything
the same exept the format that the images was saved to so that we
can see the differences?
You can't display RAW on a web directly. You mean JPEG processed out of RAW? If so by what converter (PPL, ACR, Lightroom, Bibble, Silypix, etc.), they all will produce different image with respective default parameters.

--
http://www.pbase.com/klopus
 
I
decided the EOS 400 was the one I was going to purchase. But, after
following this forum for several months, gathering a lot
information (ofcourse some were bias or emotional), as a whole,
this forum has been very informative and has helped me lot.

I bought the K10D in January. The value proposition of the K10D and
experiences of forum members were the key drivers of my decision. I
find it very fortunate to be able to access such a wealth of
valuable information from this forum.
That is exactly my story, considered the 400D, read some reviews, lurked in the forum and changed my mind to the Pentax K10D.

Only difference is that I don't quite have enough money to buy it...... yet.

Oh and I live in Brisbane too.

--
Regards,
Harry Phillips

See my portfolio here:
http://www.tux.com.au
 
First off, with the firmware update, there was some sort of change
to the High JPG output. I am having a difficult time understanding
your concern and reasoning tough. First off, this is only
noticeable with A3 prints and above, at least according to Phil. Do
you really plan on shooting A3 size prints and then observing them
under a magnifying glass? If you do, you will see more texture with
the Pentax than the others, so you will have more to look at.

Secondly, Phil does not mention his output device. This is very
improtant. Half-tone devices like inkjet printers create a
continous tone-like effect by dithering their ink droplets. This
type of device will print highly sharpened images better that a
true continous tone device like a photo lab might use. A 403 dpi
continous tone printer will print better and sharper in many cases
than a 4800 dpi half tone device like an inkjet. Pentax'es
approach, much like F*ji's is to favor the continous tone devices.

Lastly, back to reasoning. I truely don't understand your question.
If quality is so important to you, why on earth would you use JPG
mode on any camera? Think of this, you shoot a picture, the camera
adjusts the exposure to what it thinks is right, captures you
image, calculates what it thinks is the necessary information based
on the settings you made (white balance etc), throws out all other
"unnecessary Information", applies sharpening and other
"manfuracter tweaks" and writes all the leftover info to your
memory card all within 1/3 of a second.

If you really want the best, aren't you being awfully lazy? My very
expensive computer loaded with my even more expensive software
with me at the controls will ALWAYS make better decisions than my
little camera can in its 1/3 of a second window! Think about it.
That's quite a dose of reality..

This situation reminds me of a customer at a restaurant who complains about the lousy food and the small portions.

--
rc

 
I
decided the EOS 400 was the one I was going to purchase. But, after
following this forum for several months, gathering a lot
information (ofcourse some were bias or emotional), as a whole,
this forum has been very informative and has helped me lot.

I bought the K10D in January. The value proposition of the K10D and
experiences of forum members were the key drivers of my decision. I
find it very fortunate to be able to access such a wealth of
valuable information from this forum.
That is exactly my story, considered the 400D, read some reviews,
lurked in the forum and changed my mind to the Pentax K10D.

Only difference is that I don't quite have enough money to buy
it...... yet.

Oh and I live in Brisbane too.

--
Regards,
Harry Phillips

See my portfolio here:
http://www.tux.com.au
Good to hear that!

--
LimCam
Brisbane, Australia
 
I
decided the EOS 400 was the one I was going to purchase. But, after
following this forum for several months, gathering a lot
information (ofcourse some were bias or emotional), as a whole,
this forum has been very informative and has helped me lot.

I bought the K10D in January. The value proposition of the K10D and
experiences of forum members were the key drivers of my decision. I
find it very fortunate to be able to access such a wealth of
valuable information from this forum.
That is exactly my story, considered the 400D, read some reviews,
lurked in the forum and changed my mind to the Pentax K10D.

Only difference is that I don't quite have enough money to buy
it...... yet.

Oh and I live in Brisbane too.
Same here, went in for the 400D, switched to the D80 along the way and ended up buying the K10D because of a D80 review and this forum. ;)

--



http://prive.zgallery-art.com - travel photography
 
nice clean test and presented well....... Thanks again

--
360 minutes from the prime meridian. (-5375min, 3.55sec) 1093' above sea level.

'The exposure meter is calibrated to some clearly defined standards and the user needs to adjust his working method and his subject matter to these values. It does not help to suppose all kinds of assumptions that do not exist.'
Erwin Puts
 
This gallery has a pretty good selection. These are 100% crops
from resolution chart. The images are self-labeled. You need to
download the fullsize originals to really see the 100% pixels.
http://picasaweb.google.com/Bart.Hickman/K10dSharpnessSamples

Here's a blog I just posted with analysis of the results:

http://littlezumbari.blogspot.com/2007/01/pentax-k10d-brightnatural-sharpening.html
Well done, pity most people after reading this still won't understand the futility of complaining about in-camera jpg sharpness, long live RAW.

--
Rob

 

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