Is it possible to make changes to RAW and save again as RAW?

[Frankieplus]

In Digital Photo Professional, is it possible to increse the brightness of a RAW image and then save it as a RAW image again?

Or do you have to convert it to something else (TIFF/JPG) for the changes to take place?

-Frankie

 

[Bob GB]

It does not make sense. The raw file is representing all the information you have to play with. If you change that information, you essentially has lost something of it.

 

[Frankieplus]

It does not make sense. The raw file is representing all the
information you have to play with. If you change that information,
you essentially has lost something of it.

What I mean is, I took some raw images that are underexposed. Can I increase the brightness and save it with the new brightness levels? When I save it can it still be saved as a raw file?

I know I can save it as a jpg or tiff with the new brightness settings (of course) but how about saving it as raw again?

I want to give these images to someone else in the raw format and with the proper brightness levels. Not underexposed as they currently are.

-Frankie

 

[Kevin G.]

I believe what you're doing when you adjust a raw image in DPP and saving before exiting, is you're saving the SETTINGS that you made to the raw file, so when you open it in DPP again, the settings are applied to the raw file. But the file itself is not changed. I'm not exactly sure where these settings are saved (in a side car file or what) but if you wanted to give the raw to someone, you'd also have to include the side car file (or whatever) with the changes, and I think the person would need to open in DPP as well.
Regards,
Kevin

--
pBase...
http://www.pbase.com/keving54

 

[Frankieplus]

I believe what you're doing when you adjust a raw image in DPP and
saving before exiting, is you're saving the SETTINGS that you made to
the raw file, so when you open it in DPP again, the settings are
applied to the raw file.

Now that seems to be what I'm experiencing.

So is that how it is in the world of RAW or is it just a DPP thing? (i.e., saving settings and not making actual changes to the file) I'm new to raw and am curious as to how all this works.

-Frankie

 

[Wildpicture]

A RAW file contains the RAW data from the sensor, along with some metadata about how the image was taken (camera settings). If you would alter these data, they would not be raw anymore.

Therefore all processed RAW data have to be saved in either a new format or as a kind of extra layer of metadata so the software knows and repeats the processing.

Regards,
Hans

http://www.wildpicture.com

 

[Diane B]

I believe what you're doing when you adjust a raw image in DPP and
saving before exiting, is you're saving the SETTINGS that you made to
the raw file, so when you open it in DPP again, the settings are
applied to the raw file.

Now that seems to be what I'm experiencing.

So is that how it is in the world of RAW or is it just a DPP thing?
(i.e., saving settings and not making actual changes to the file) I'm
new to raw and am curious as to how all this works.

-Frankie

Changes are never ever made to the RAW file in any RAW converter program--not DPP, not LR or PS, etc. The whole point of RAW is that you can go back over and over to that 'negative' and reprocess, do color AND mono prints from it, etc. I have gone back to RAW files from my old D60 and reprocessed with the newer RAW converters for much better images.

So--if you want to see the results of various processes, you need to save your file. OR--in LR, for instance, you can create a virtual copy of your RAW file and reprocess it differently. Both sit side by side in your library, can be compared on screen, both can be printed. However, all of this is done without touching the RAW files--with 'sidecar' files so to speak. If you want to export the file to PS for more processing for instance, it will come into PS as a psd and you can save it in whatever format you want. If you just want to print it out--in LR it does not have to be 'saved' to a format to do that. Just an instance of the possibilities of what RAW can mean.

I have used RAW for many years--since a quite old Canon G1 where the only RAW processers were Canon Zoombrowser (nasty LOL) and Chris Breeze developed Breezebrowser and then 3rd party RCs started to prolierate and we now have many different ones to choose from. So--do I shoot only in RAW--you bet. It means I have thousands of negatives from which I can make new prints, reprocess for web galleries, etc.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

 

[orlandoom]

I just brought up a raw file in dpp that I saved 2/28/2007. I had upped the exposure under raw .5 and when exiting dpp, I replied yes to save changes back in feb. Today I opened it again with the .5 exposure change, I then clicked the revert to original arrow and the exposure under raw went back to the original, as shot setting. I then exited and it asked my again if I wanted to save the change. I could have performed this on as many files as desired and reverted back. I hope this is what you were asking.
don.

 

[Peter Nelson]

Raw image data be changed an unlimited number of times. Then to undo just revert to the original as shot settings.

So you want to send someone a Raw image in which you have increased the exposure? Go ahead. But your friend should have the same program as you used to increase the exposure in order to see your changes. If not, then that person will have to increase the exposure in some other Canon Raw editing program, of which there are many. Including Piccassa2, a free Raw editing and viewing program. No big deal is it?

If this cannot be done, then after you are done editing the raw image save it as a .jpg and or Tiff and send it to your friend. In .jpg they will have the finished image and viewable as you wish it to look and printable.
--
Artist Eyes

 

[Peter Nelson]

Picasa2 (spelling correction).
--
Artist Eyes

 

[Ed Halley]

(You can now edit your original post within a few minutes of posting, to fix the usual sort of spelling/typo problem.)

--
[ e d @ h a l l e y . c c ] http://www.halley.cc/pix/

 

[Ed Halley]

Say you underexposed your shot in RAW.

Most image tools that view the RAW image also save a second file (or "sidecar" file). For example, Bibble Labs software saves a file like IMG_3456.CRW.BIB to correspond to the original image in the IMG_3456.CRW file.

The sidecar file expresses a number of discrete adjustments. If a final JPEG or TIFF is requested, then all of those adjustments are performed and saved into the desired target JPEG or TIFF file. The original RAW is never modified.

RAW = sideways, overwarm underexposed soft boy with pimples
RAW + BIB(+1eV exposure) = sideways, overwarm soft boy with pimples
RAW + BIB(+1eV, -200K balance) = sideways soft boy with pimples
RAW + BIB(+1eV, -200K, CCW rotation) = soft boy with pimples
RAW + BIB(+1eV, -200K, CCW, spot heal) = soft boy
RAW + BIB(+1eV, -200K, CCW, spot heal, sharpen) = boy

If the total of all those changes were to be made permanent and saved into a new RAW file, it sounds like it would be just what you want. You'd need a new sidecar file that says "change nothing."

So why not write software that allows that? It's not as simple as it sounds.

Thanks to the way Bayer patterns on camera sensors work, it's not as easy to turn a completed RGB image back into the Bayer mosaic'ed data. You'd create new moire patterns or degrade the sharpening, especially. You'd have to recompute the proper color balance from pixels to R/B gamma curves, and assign a "shot as" Kelvins number, which is not particularly easy.

If a RAW viewer were to open up this "reconstituted" image, I guarantee that it could not equal the image quality of the original, for the reasons stated above. Just as you shouldn't edit JPEG and save JPEG and edit JPEG again, doing so with RAW has its consequences.

Always expect RAW + Adjustments -> JPEG.

--
[ e d @ h a l l e y . c c ] http://www.halley.cc/pix/

 

[focalplane]

You can alter the brightness and recover lost channels in Photoshop CS3 Adobe Camera Raw. When you are finished the information will be saved as a "side car" file, or you can package it as a DNG file. You are changing the parameters of the conversion, not the raw file itself.

 

[Jamie H.]

How many of you actually use DPP regularly?
How many of you actually answered the question the OP was asking?

Your answer is YES. DPP embeds the changes you make into the raw files. THE RAW FILES CHANGE after you make adjustments and save upon exit. Now the changes are not destructive - meaning you can completely revert all changes you made, but most importantly DPP will give you the option to save all changes you make within the original raw file.

This is one of the reasons I prefer DPP to edit my raws over any Adobe product.

--



http://archive.jmhphoto.net

 

[Diane B]

I just brought up a raw file in dpp that I saved 2/28/2007. I had
upped the exposure under raw .5 and when exiting dpp, I replied yes
to save changes back in feb. Today I opened it again with the .5
exposure change, I then clicked the revert to original arrow and the
exposure under raw went back to the original, as shot setting. I then
exited and it asked my again if I wanted to save the change. I could
have performed this on as many files as desired and reverted back. I
hope this is what you were asking.
don.

I dunno!!!!! It sure sounds just like the same things as sidecar, etc. when you read the help file in DPP.

"You can save editing data (a recipe) in an image.

Editing data performed with Digital Photo Professional HAS NOT DIRECTLY EDITED THE IMAGE, but displays the image by applying VIRTUAL EDITING DATA(a recipe). With the operations in this section, you can save editing data (a recipe) in an image, but you have not directly edited the image. To create an image directly edited according to editing data, refer to "Converting an Edited Image/Saving as a Separate Image". "

My emphasis on the 'has not...."

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

 

[Diane B]

How many of you actually use DPP regularly?
How many of you actually answered the question the OP was asking?

Your answer is YES. DPP embeds the changes you make into the raw
files. THE RAW FILES CHANGE after you make adjustments and save upon
exit. Now the changes are not destructive - meaning you can
completely revert all changes you made, but most importantly DPP will
give you the option to save all changes you make within the original
raw file.

This is one of the reasons I prefer DPP to edit my raws over any
Adobe product.

I don't think so. When you read the help file in DPP, it surely sounds just like sidecar, etc. I've used DPP since the beginning and Zoombrowser before that when RAW files were first introduced. I don't pretend to be a techie but no one would allow permanent changes to be made to their RAW files--even if you can reset them. Just think--years from now you want to go back to your RAW file--but you no longer have DPP on your HD--and---'oh, my gosh---its not the original'--no one would use a software that did that. The whole point of RAW is that you have a negative that is never changed.

Quote from DPP in the 'saving the editing data to an image':
"You can save editing data (a recipe) in an image.

Editing data performed with Digital Photo Professional HAS NOT DIRECTLY EDITED THE IMAGE, but displays the image by applying VIRTUAL EDITING DATA data (a recipe). With the operations in this section, you can save editing data (a recipe) in an image, but you have not directly edited the image. To create an image directly edited according to editing data, refer to "Converting an Edited Image/Saving as a Separate Image".

My emphasis with the caps.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

 

[Diane B]

I just brought up a raw file in dpp that I saved 2/28/2007. I had
upped the exposure under raw .5 and when exiting dpp, I replied yes
to save changes back in feb. Today I opened it again with the .5
exposure change, I then clicked the revert to original arrow and the
exposure under raw went back to the original, as shot setting. I then
exited and it asked my again if I wanted to save the change. I could
have performed this on as many files as desired and reverted back. I
hope this is what you were asking.
don.

I dunno!!!!! It sure sounds just like the same things as sidecar,
etc. when you read the help file in DPP.

"You can save editing data (a recipe) in an image.
Editing data performed with Digital Photo Professional HAS NOT
DIRECTLY EDITED THE IMAGE, but displays the image by applying VIRTUAL
EDITING DATA(a recipe). With the operations in this section, you can
save editing data (a recipe) in an image, but you have not directly
edited the image. To create an image directly edited according to
editing data, refer to "Converting an Edited Image/Saving as a
Separate Image". "

My emphasis on the 'has not...."

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries

 

[Gordon S Walker]

DPP saves the recipe as a file with same the image number so it always matches the image. ie YYE212345.vrd

Supply that file with the image file and anyone with DPP can recreate the exact picture.
--
It's an L of a life, this photography lark

http://www.freelancephotographic.net/

 

[hbx2004]

How many of you actually use DPP regularly?

Interesting question...

How many of you actually answered the question the OP was asking?

Fifty-fifty?

Your answer is YES. DPP embeds the changes you make into the raw
files. THE RAW FILES CHANGE after you make adjustments and save upon
exit.

Even more precise: settings are saved into original raw file as metadata (if you allow that). Think of those settings (or "recipe") as some exif data being added. That means: pure sensor data isn't touched.

Now the changes are not destructive - meaning you can
completely revert all changes you made, but most importantly DPP will
give you the option to save all changes you make within the original
raw file.

True.

This is one of the reasons I prefer DPP to edit my raws over any
Adobe product.

Same here (I don't like having additional "sidecar" files around).

Bogdan
--
My pictures are my memories
http://freeweb.siol.net/hrastni3/

 

[Barry Pearson]

Frankieplus wrote:
[snip]

Now that seems to be what I'm experiencing.

So is that how it is in the world of RAW or is it just a DPP thing?
(i.e., saving settings and not making actual changes to the file) I'm
new to raw and am curious as to how all this works.

Distinguish between changing the raw file (which is quite common) and changing the raw image data within the file (which isn't).

Some raw processing products will add metadata to the raw file, describing the changes made by the user. This is an example of non-destructive editing. That metadata is typically specific to that raw processor, and won't be understood by others, so if you are passing it to someone else they will need to use the same tool to see the effect.

Other examples: Nikon NX can do that with NEFs, storing quite a rich edit-list within the MEF. Adobe software can do that with DNG. But Adobe doesn't recognise the metadata put in by DPP or NX, and no other products recognise the edit-list that Adobe has stored.