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Is Dp2 much better than Dp1?

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rick decker said:
This is an argument for which there is no winner as far a which camera is better. It's a no-brainer - if you are doing landscape, the DP1 is your best bet. For street-scapes/walk-around, the DP2 is a better choice. I don't think there would be much disagreement on the forum about this.
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I don't disagree in general, but for my own purposes, I found the DP2 not wide enough for walkaround/street. Of course, I do a lot of candid street work (from the hip), and that's probably not what you meant. I use the DP1.

Regarding the noise, I stay fixed at ISO 400 (again for candids) and absolutely love the results. The noise adds a pleasant but not distracting texture. I continue to uphold that it's the closest thing to analog film grain in a digital camera.

To my surprise, my photo blog is fast becoming a compilation of DP1 street work (except for the hit or miss pinhole or Olympus shot).

Bottom line: pick the lens.

--
Photo Blog @ http://1259pm.com/
 
bcc1955 said:
Sandy, do you find the Hoodman Loupe helps with manual focus in macro mode. With my close up lens the DP1 actually has too much brokeh and the focus is really critical. It seem like that may help. Also, instead of rubber bands are you able to make a necklace out of it and hold it on with pressure between you eye and the camera screen?
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--First, there isn't a "macro mode" on either the DP1 or DP2. I don't have the close-up lens. But I find I can come in closer with the DP2 than with the DP1. I rely on auto focus 99% of the time. I rarely rarely manual focus, and that's usually at infinity on some fast moving action at a certain distance (dancers, performances) when timing is of the essence (get their faces rather than backs, anticipate movement, shoot type situations).

--The Hoodman Loupe comes with a strap attached. I've honestly only used it extensively once, the day out on the bright, bright Racetrack Playa in Death Valley this year. I used it on DP1 and SD14 to even see the read-out info as well as for framing DP1 photos. But it slipped all around, the strap kept getting tangled with my other straps (2 cameras, eyeglass strap, Hoodman strap). Rather comical. I'd probably attach it to the camera with the rubber band method, if I were doing that again! Yes, you hold it in place with pressure between your eye and the LCD screen, but it kept slipping around, even when I had the DP1 fastened to the monopod.

--How I use the DP1 + another camera on monopod is that I attach a screw-in clip fastener to the camera base of each camera. Then I can quickly switch which camera is attached to the monopod. The monopd really helps me... it's not as good as a tripod, but it's a LOT better for my shutter speed stability than just hand-holding a DSLR. With the DP1 it helps me line up, frame properly and hold, and I auto focus. Plus it really helps me walking on uneven trails.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
 
trtt said:
Don't know which one is better but judging from the results posted here i would vote for the DP1. There is a constant amount of great DP1 pictures coming into the web that keeps impressing me. Maybe it's because the wide angle is more complicated to compose, more stuff gets in your way - thus more thinking before shutter press is applied? Just a thought.
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Personally I think there are more DP1 photos simply because the DP1 camera has been out longer (March 2008) vs late spring 2009 for the DP2. When the DP1 price went down, I noted a surge of new posters/DP1 users on the forum too. So price is indeed critical in purchase decisions.
trtt said:
Sensorwise there should'nt be a difference in IQ when shooting raws.
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In pure fine detail capture, no, there isn't much difference. But I find a definite 'feel' and 'look' of difference in RAWs between the cameras.
trtt said:
If you like to shoot jpg i guess the dp2 has a better jpg-engine built into the camera. But who shoots jpg with foveon when you can have fill light with raw? :)
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True, I think I've taken 4 JPEGs only with the DP2 .. and those were simply shots of furniture in a store that I needed to attach to email to our daughter (my cellphone doesn't have a camera).

JPEG can be a convenience setting for some situations and circumstances, but generally I think anyone interested in getting the 'best' from these cameras would shoot RAW.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
 
Better menu and knob placement? It feels like the knob stayed at the same place it was for the DP1 and the menu became more user friendly with the addition of the QS button. I think the dynamic range on both cameras as similar. Lens is definitely different but IQ as I've mentioned before is a bit better at high ISOs (400 and above, particularly 800) due to the new image processing engine (the DP2 has a newer chip, TRUE II).
 
SandyF said:
--First, there isn't a "macro mode" on either the DP1 or DP2. I don't have the close-up lens. But I find I can come in closer with the DP2 than with the DP1. I rely on auto focus 99% of the time. I rarely rarely manual focus, and that's usually at infinity on some fast moving action at a certain distance (dancers, performances) when timing is of the essence (get their faces rather than backs, anticipate movement, shoot type situations)
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I technically mis-spoke there. However, I believe that the manual focus mode lets you achieve a focus closer to an object than does auto-focus. Not sure why. So for macro shots I always use manual focus mode and seeing the screen clearly becomes important.

Thanks for your input on the Hoodman Loupe and monopod. Did you ever calculate the shutter speed you can hand hold vs monopod hold for equivalent quality. I like to limit my hand held shoots to 1/60 sec for best quality. I have an ultralight Benro tripod which I can sort of convert to a monopod for testing. Perhaps I will do that. Now I just handhold with the 2 sec timer.
 
3dpixel said:
I would like to buy a DP camera but not quite sure which one to pick.

Is DP2 much better to justify the price difference? DP1 now sell for 275 euro vs 399 for DP2.
Is the lens sharper? Are the colors similar?
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You cannot compare DP1 and DP2. They have different focal length. The DP1 is a wide angle camera and the DP2 is a normal lens camera. So .. what lens you want decides what camera you buy.

They are both of very high image quality, except for one thing. The DP1 cannot be used to photograph when there is small bright sources of light in the image - e.g. the sun or lamps at night. Then you will get an ugly red grid in the image.

If I wanted a normal lens camera - I would buy DP2.

If I wanted a wide angle lens camera - I would wait to the rumored DP1s where the optical problem with photographing with bright lights is solved.

--
Roland

support http://www.openraw.org/

X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
 
I have both dp1 and dp2, and think seriously of selling my dp1 now after a few months of dp2 only (while the other was under repairs)

the speed is just gone from annoying to fine

the red grid is almost gone, i love photos of the sun!

close focus is better and f2.8 is a big difference

jpgs are much better, useful instead of boring

the buttons are almost absurd, the qs have two modes requiring you to look and think all the time, and when doing manual focus and zoomed in, you get trapped in the menu when trying to get out - also the down button is only going into focus area, and there is lack of truly programmable buttons, only a few can be shifted, why they removed the nice programability of the dp1 beats me, i loved the fast iso and timer shifting and other settings, and find it a pain to change now as i never know if im inside quicksetting 1 or 2, making that system worse than any other i know

--


Solsangs guide for DP1/DP2:
http://solsang.dk/solsang/Advice.html
Collected knowledge from dpreview users
 
I saw your entry for today ('Love'), really liked it. Just added your RSS feed- ;-)

Do you zone/hyperfocal focus with the DP1?

I guess that would work well if you are shooting on your lunch hour...

--
http://www.madmaxmedia.com
 
How rediculous is this that we have to search and pay extra to see! When did this become our problem instead of the manufacturers? What fools we have become. A lousy LCD should not be acceptable to anyone today period!.
Don
 
Hi Don,

It's really not about being able to see, it's about being able to see well enough to do things like fine focus and so on with bright sunlight behind us and under conditions where actually "no" LCD can do the job.

When you are older or visually challenged (which happens to most with aging) it's difficult to use an LCD to focus. You can compose well enough with an LCD, but even the highest resolution LCD, indeed even a top-notch big screen notebook LCD is too washed out with direct sunlight on it to really see what you are doing.

The Xtend-a-View gives a 2x magnification and completely shields the LCD from the sun providing the equivalent of the next best thing to an optical viewfinder with magnification. Even those of us with less than optimal eyesight can easily see very plainly on virtually any LCD with such a device.

I often shoot with my little Nikon CP990 attached to one of my high quality telescopes at up to focal length of 6,000 mm. It's imperative that I get perfect focus to make a decent image. Even with my full frame dSLR and the very "best" optical prism viewfinder, I can't focus as precisely as with the little Xtend-a-View and the very old and technically inferior LCD on my Nikon CP990 or CP4500!

This really isn't the time or place to launch into an off-topic tirade about the LCD quality of the DP1 or DP2. Actually, it's irrelevant to the subject of this post. If the LCD on the DP1 were the very best available in the electronic industry and had the highest available resolution, one would still need something like the Xtend-a-View to be able to see well enough to do what is desired.

It's an imperfect world and we must deal with imperfect equipment. If Sigma had provided an Xtend-a-View with the DP1 and DP2 then some people would still complain because they had to use it.

Let's not go off-topic here, O.K.?

Best regards,

Lin
Donald Ferguson said:
How rediculous is this that we have to search and pay extra to see! When did this become our problem instead of the manufacturers? What fools we have become. A lousy LCD should not be acceptable to anyone today period!.
Don
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madmaxmedia said:
I saw your entry for today ('Love'), really liked it. Just added your RSS feed- ;-)

Do you zone/hyperfocal focus with the DP1?

I guess that would work well if you are shooting on your lunch hour...
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First, thanks for the kind words and the RSS subscription. It took some doing to make the DP1 work for this quick sort of hit-and-run style of photography, and I still miss a lot of shots. But I’m getting more practice and my ratio is improving.

Once I gave up on auto-focus, things got easier. I use aperture priority at f/5.6. Hyperfocal there is about 3 meters, but that’s too far away for me, so I set the focus between 1.5 and 2 meters, gauge the distance, and hope for the best. I keep the ISO at 400 and sometimes boost it to 800 if it’s really cloudy or I’m in the shadows. Also, I use center-weighted metering.

What I struggle with most is motion blur (I’m spoiled by the IS on my “more serious” camera). The picture of the two boys in the alley was blurred at 1/100, but was a rare case where I kind of liked the effect.

Brian
--
Photo Blog @ http://1259pm.com/
 
Maxime B said:
About the noise improvement. Could someone that own the two post a quick comparaison test so that we get a idea ?
--
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Maxime, just fyi if you're interested I have some DP1 and DP2 shots from Washington, DC, online at http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann They are not framed exactly the same.... that's the point, the lens mm is different .... but taken at the same time. For example DP1 SDIM4005 and DP2 SDIM1000 I took standing at the same spot.

Monopod on some, didn't take Hoodman Loupe along; the light so bright that I couldn't really see the LCD screens (wouldn't have on ANY camera I own, including other brands than Sigma.... see Lin Evans post re bright light, eyesight ;-) ) I used the viewfinder on the DP1; framed most on the DP2 on the LCD screen .... could see it well enough for framing. Plus the grid line options on the DPx screen view help, although I didn't use them Monday.

In shooting: Similar settings, ie P mode, matrix metering, auto white balance.

In processing: minimal processing in SPP3.5.2, ie slight increase in contrast was about the only 'edit' I did on the RAWs.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (photos mentioned)
 
Lin Evans said:
Hi Don,

It's really not about being able to see, it's about being able to see well enough to do things like fine focus and so on with bright sunlight behind us and under conditions where actually "no" LCD can do the job.
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snip
Member said:
Let's not go off-topic here, O.K.?

Best regards,

Lin
Click to expand...
Lin and Don,

Not to belabor an "aside" but the use of LCDs for other than framing is one reason I'm thus far not drawn to any camera which relies solely on LCD for critical functions like focus. I'm somewhat far sighted and a bit astigmatic, as I've probably said before. I only use reading glasses (with the approval of my eye doctor) and glasses on/glasses off doesn't seem to work well for photography, although admittedly there are times like making camera adjustments in low light where the "readers" come in handy. It's a design choice IMHO on the part of camera designers generally that doesn't fit me well individually. If/when I buy a DPX (barring a major redesign) it will among other decisions be at a point when I feel I can afford camera and external viewfinder. If by chance the DP3 has a high quality zoom, well, hmm, I'll have to think on that one.

Best,

--
Ed_S
http://www.pbase.com/ecsquires
 
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