Is Dp2 much better than Dp1?

[3dpixel]

I would like to buy a DP camera but not quite sure which one to pick.

Is DP2 much better to justify the price difference? DP1 now sell for 275 euro vs 399 for DP2.
Is the lens sharper? Are the colors similar?

thanks in advance.

 

[ArneMarco]

The difference is mainly two different lenses where as the DP1 has more wide angel than the DP2. The DP 2 is not a successor to DP1 but rather an addition. DP 2 is newer and is some faster than DP1, but the main question must be which kind of lens you want ...

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[bcc1955]

I personally prefer the 28mm wide angle and would go for the DP1. There is a rumored update the DP1s which would hopefully further improve even on the DP2? on the way but it will be more pricey. If price is no object then it may be worth waiting. The DP1 is a bargain now if you can live with its limitations. My DP1s main limitation in bright light is a RAW processing time of about 6 seconds (focus acquisition takes only about 1 sec). This does not bother me too much as I don't really need to take a 2nd pick that fast. I think this and the less bright lens is the main difference. A few other dislikes of mine I think are shared by the DP2. Low light focusing is poor because there is no focus assist lamp. I am thinking of getting a small push button LED light I can carry to help with this issue. This is a dumb omission by Sigma because it is an inexpensive feature to implement. Additionally, macro focusing range is really poor if you like this type of photography. I have a 52mm Canon Close Up Lens 250D on a Lensmate adaptor which works pretty well (and gets much closer than the Sigma close up lense) and produces very clean images. You can do that for about $100. The software and firmware updates have made the DP1 a much better camera since its introduction.

 

[kissdadookie]

Image quality is a lot better on the DP2. While ISO 400 was the limit on the DP1, you can easily go up to and use ISO800 on the DP2 before things become so desaturated that it would take quite a bit of elbow grease in post to get the images usable again for colour. There's also the performance enhancements such as fast file write times. The faster lens also allows DOF selective focus. Based solely on the noticeably improved IQ along with the ability to use DOF selective focus, the DP2 is the much better camera.

 

[Graham Gibson]

Besides what others mentioned already, the DP2 fixed the overblown red issue (DP1 tended to have magenta reds--see the review on this site), and also the "red spots pattern" issue when shooting into the sun (I've seen a couple DP2 shots with it, but much less).

For my money, I think the lens is the biggest difference so it mostly depends on your preference.

--------------------------------------------
Sony DSC-V1
http://www.pbase.com/ggibson

 

[bcc1955]

Interesting comments from the DP2 users. I have adapted fairly well to the red problem my being careful to lower my exposures if there is a lot of red in a picture. It does not seem to be a problem for me anymore. I don't know if some of this is due to firmware and SPP updates that have occurred since the DP1 reviews.

I am interested in the comment that DP2 image quality is much better. I have not seen this. Are there side by side pictures comparing the two with the latest firmware/software fixes. Is there a documented change in the sensor?

 

[kissdadookie]

The sensor stayed the same, the difference is the image processor being the second generation processor. It handles higher sensitivities much better even though you will still see some chroma noise and colour desaturation when using ISO800 but it's better controlled than the ISO400 shots I've seen from the DP1. Noise/grain in general is actually greatly reduced using the new processor. ISO800 on the DP2 comes out cleaner than some ISO400 images I've seen on flickr.

 

[SandyF]

I have both DP1 and DP2 and have been using them both extensively since they came out. I do not agree that the image quality of DP2 is "much better" ... note that kissadookie specifies at higher ISOs. Maybe there... since you can shoot ISO1600 with the DP2 (with varying results). Personally I've never once used ISO1600. I seldom use ISO800. Up to ISO1SO400, I'd say there is no "image quality" difference.
Couple observations of mine, in addition to those already made by others above:
--DP2 is a bit 'faster' if that matters to the user (it doesn't to me)
--DP2 handles reds a bit more easily than DP1 I find

--DP2 has that F2.8 lens which indeed I do find I use on some indoor shots and dim light shots (DP1 is F4).
--Both cameras have wonderful lenses.
--DP1 of course is 'wider'

--Personally I think that the DP1 is a bit more neutral in color than the DP2, out of the camera. The "color" of the DP1 reminds me of the Sigma SD10... I know that doesn't help those readers who aren't familiar with the SD10... but it's in many ways the 'easiest' color output IMHO of course.

--I love the color mode options with the DP2 and use landscape mode a lot in processing in SPP3.5.2. Color modes are unique to the DP2.

--I've had the "grid" appear in maybe 4 shots out of almost 4000 with the DP1. It's not a problem for my usage... but it could be seen as an issue for some users. I find the way to control it is the angle of shooting into the sun. DP2 doesn't "grid" like the DP1, I've easily shot many landscapes with pretty strong sun with no "grid" problem.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[kissdadookie]

I agree with Sandy, ISO400 with decent light, the two are similar though chroma noise is a bit more controlled with DP2. ISO800, you get better results with the DP2 but lighting gets trickier. ISO1600 is something that takes too much effort to process in colour so I would suggest shooting with B&W in mind if you're going to go up to ISO1600. ISO3200 is actually quite usable for B&W as well. I personally don't like how the structure of digital noise/grain looks regardless of camera being used, so for ISO1600 and ESPECIALLY ISO3200, I tend to process in artificial film grain to give it the high speed B&W film look (ISO3200 on the Sigma's with the film grain processed in looks like pretty decent 800 b&w film, in other words, it beats the pants off of actually using 1600 speed film). Rule of thumb, if you're not going to shoot beyond ISO400, both cameras are somewhat comparable, most people, including myself, try to keep it at ISO200 and below for that very smooth look.

 

[bcc1955]

Hi Sandy,

Thanks for you input. I personally really only use ISO 50 - 200 on my DP1 as image quality is number one. I can't handle the green blotch noise. Perhaps with some noise handling software (just bought Lightroom 2) I can push it to 400. For me this was the biggest disappoint with the camera. All the hype centered on large sensors handling high ISO does not apply to the Sigma cameras. They are special cameras for exceptional pictures in bright light conditions. I will have my DP1 until Sigma compels me to buy a substantially improved version. Hopefully Sigma is working on improving the high ISO performance to get it near Bayer levels, but maybe that is the Achellis heal of the design.

Cheers,
Brian

 

[bcc1955]

I agree with Sandy, ISO400 with decent light, the two are similar though chroma noise is a bit more controlled with DP2. ISO800, you get better results with the DP2 but lighting gets trickier. ISO1600 is something that takes too much effort to process in colour so I would suggest shooting with B&W in mind if you're going to go up to ISO1600. ISO3200 is actually quite usable for B&W as well. I personally don't like how the structure of digital noise/grain looks regardless of camera being used, so for ISO1600 and ESPECIALLY ISO3200, I tend to process in artificial film grain to give it the high speed B&W film look (ISO3200 on the Sigma's with the film grain processed in looks like pretty decent 800 b&w film, in other words, it beats the pants off of actually using 1600 speed film). Rule of thumb, if you're not going to shoot beyond ISO400, both cameras are somewhat comparable, most people, including myself, try to keep it at ISO200 and below for that very smooth look.

Hello kissdadookie,

I have been wanting to explore B&W on my DP1. Do you suggest using RAW or the in camera BW?
Thanks,
Brian

 

[kissdadookie]

RAW all the way.

 

[SandyF]

"green splotch" is mainly SDx/DPX underexposure rather than ISO400 by definition... I've used ISO400 pretty regularly with my DP1, SD14, DP2 with good results. True I generally take fairly stationary subjects,... some may reply... but concentrate on getting that exposure pushed to the histogram right... get your exposure right.. ISO400 will be okay. Look at some of my ISO examples here http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/dp1_or_dp2_experiments I have some examples at various ISOs taken at a mall, interiors, etc.
Type of light makes a difference too.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[bcc1955]

"green splotch" is mainly SDx/DPX underexposure rather than ISO400 by definition... I've used ISO400 pretty regularly with my DP1, SD14, DP2 with good results. True I generally take fairly stationary subjects,... some may reply... but concentrate on getting that exposure pushed to the histogram right... get your exposure right.. ISO400 will be okay. Look at some of my ISO examples here http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/dp1_or_dp2_experiments I have some examples at various ISOs taken at a mall, interiors, etc.
Type of light makes a difference too.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

Sandy, thanks for that tip. I'll explore that technique. Maybe the key will be underexposing high red content and overexposing at high ISOs.

 

[Gene Hack]

The DP1 is better.
Better menu ergonomics, and better knob placement.
Better dynamic range.
Better resolution.

longer battery life, since the lens retraction distance is much smaller, i.e.
the motor needs less and shorter power.

Oh, most important, once focused You can expose in realtime, while the DP2 has a short lag.

 

[bcc1955]

Sandy, do you find the Hoodman Loupe helps with manual focus in macro mode. With my close up lens the DP1 actually has too much brokeh and the focus is really critical. It seem like that may help. Also, instead of rubber bands are you able to make a necklace out of it and hold it on with pressure between you eye and the camera screen?

 

[trtt]

Don't know which one is better but judging from the results posted here i would vote for the DP1. There is a constant amount of great DP1 pictures coming into the web that keeps impressing me. Maybe it's because the wide angle is more complicated to compose, more stuff gets in your way - thus more thinking before shutter press is applied? Just a thought.

Sensorwise there should'nt be a difference in IQ when shooting raws. If you like to shoot jpg i guess the dp2 has a better jpg-engine built into the camera. But who shoots jpg with foveon when you can have fill light with raw?

 

[rick decker]

This is an argument for which there is no winner as far a which camera is better. It's a no-brainer - if you are doing landscape, the DP1 is your best bet. For street-scapes/walk-around, the DP2 is a better choice. I don't think there would be much disagreement on the forum about this.

Being a landscape photographer (mainly), I only wish the DP3 would be a fixed 12mm. I would be happy with f4 or even f4.5 if the optics were as good as the DP1 and 2.

--
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[Archiver]

For me, the DP2 has more 'realistic' colour, especially when shot in Sunlight WB. The DP1 tends to have a greenish cast, and the DP2 is more blue in Auto WB. I always shoot it in Sunlight WB and the DP2 gives far more realistic colour than the DP1 now.

Shot-to-shot time is much improved. With a better buffer and write system, the DP2 can take photo after photo without that annoying lag time between images that the DP1 had. Also, the DP1 could not change its exposure or any other settings while the file was writing, whereas the DP2 can.

As others have mentioned, the red grid-flare that came when shooting into the sun or other bright light has been solved in the DP2. The DP2 handles reds, oranges and yellows much better as well.

The DP2 is, for me, such a joy to shoot compared with the DP1 for those reasons. I love my DP1, and I will always have a place for it in my camera bag. But the DP2 now has place of prominence in my 'high IQ compact' category.
--
Archiver - Recording the sights and sounds of life
http://www.flickr.com/photos/archiver/

 

[DavidMillier]

Why is there always an assumption that for landscapes, the wider the better?

For my taste, 35mm (equivalent) makes for much better balanced compositions than wider lenses unless you are purely interested in the foreground 3-6 feet in front of you.

And on my recent trip to iceland I found that I was using the 70-200mm far more than wide angle simply because there nearly always seemed to a mile of wasteland between me and the interesting subjects...

This is an argument for which there is no winner as far a which camera is better. It's a no-brainer - if you are doing landscape, the DP1 is your best bet. For street-scapes/walk-around, the DP2 is a better choice. I don't think there would be much disagreement on the forum about this.

Being a landscape photographer (mainly), I only wish the DP3 would be a fixed 12mm. I would be happy with f4 or even f4.5 if the optics were as good as the DP1 and 2.

--
It's a tough job living in Hawaii but someone's got to do it!!

See Sigma Lens Tests At:
http://www.lightreflection.com/sigmalenstests/matrix.htm

http://www.lightreflection.com
http://www.silveroaksranch.com
http://www.pbase.com/rickdecker

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