Is Changing ISO Just Adjusting for Incorrect Sensor Exposure?

toktik

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Solutions
38
Reaction score
1,037
After about 20 years of not engaging in much photography, I returned to it about a year ago via Fujifilm. While refreshing my knowledge of photography, I have seen explanations that ISO is part of the "exposure triangle," but that doesn't seem correct to me.

Since exposure happens at the sensor, before ISO gain is applicable, it seems that shutter speed, aperture size, and available light are the components that impact exposure. Isn't changing ISO just a way to help compensate for over or under exposure that happens at the sensor?

From what I have learned about ISO, through reading and use, it seems to function similar to an audio amplifier while available light, shutter speed, and aperture work together to produce the music track (image) being made audible by the amplifier.

Am I misunderstanding something about the function of ISO gain?
 
After about 20 years of not engaging in much photography, I returned to it about a year ago via Fujifilm. While refreshing my knowledge of photography, I have seen explanations that ISO is part of the "exposure triangle," but that doesn't seem correct to me.

Since exposure happens at the sensor, before ISO gain is applicable, it seems that shutter speed, aperture size, and available light are the components that impact exposure. Isn't changing ISO just a way to help compensate for over or under exposure that happens at the sensor?

From what I have learned about ISO, through reading and use, it seems to function similar to an audio amplifier while available light, shutter speed, and aperture work together to produce the music track (image) being made audible by the amplifier.

Am I misunderstanding something about the function of ISO gain?
In simple terms it's a signal gain function, it increases brightness, the cost being signal noise. I always think of it as turning up the volume on a radio, turn it up too high and you exponentially start to get distortion and feedback.
 
Last edited:
After about 20 years of not engaging in much photography, I returned to it about a year ago via Fujifilm. While refreshing my knowledge of photography, I have seen explanations that ISO is part of the "exposure triangle," but that doesn't seem correct to me.

Since exposure happens at the sensor, before ISO gain is applicable, it seems that shutter speed, aperture size, and available light are the components that impact exposure. Isn't changing ISO just a way to help compensate for over or under exposure that happens at the sensor?

From what I have learned about ISO, through reading and use, it seems to function similar to an audio amplifier while available light, shutter speed, and aperture work together to produce the music track (image) being made audible by the amplifier.

Am I misunderstanding something about the function of ISO gain?
May be not, but you are certainly overthinking it :).

ISO, aperture and shutter speed are what affects the brightness of the output image. And that's what's called exposure in common language. In the end, all these words are synthetic anyway and only hold the meaning that is ascribed to them.

Besides, I do not think it has been decided that ISO is gain. There are stories online that gain is applied to the analogue signal, then others say it's applied to the DNs after A/D conversion, in which case, I would call it stretch and not gain.
 
Last edited:
Technically you are perfectly right and you have explained it very good. You may have understood it even better than many experienced photographers :-)

But in the practical application I still think that "exposure triangle" is correct. You have 3 ways to expose a dark scene correctly: shutter speed at the cost of blur, aperture at the cost of DOF and ISO at the cost of noise. Or any combination of them.

I've also heard what Banderras said about ISO != Gain. For me as an engineer that makes little to none sense, but there are apparently very knowledgeable people who support this theory.
 
Technically you are perfectly right and you have explained it very good. You may have understood it even better than many experienced photographers :-)

But in the practical application I still think that "exposure triangle" is correct. You have 3 ways to expose a dark scene correctly: shutter speed at the cost of blur, aperture at the cost of DOF and ISO at the cost of noise. Or any combination of them.

I've also heard what Banderras said about ISO != Gain. For me as an engineer that makes little to none sense, but there are apparently very knowledgeable people who support this theory.
Let me try to explain myself a little better.

Analog amplification of the analog signal from the sensor is gain.

Remapping DNs after AD conversion is similar to the "levels" tool in photoshop, or histogram stretch in various other software. E.g. you have an 8 bit range, take a subset of that range, and map it to the full 8 bit range again.

Various outlets, e.g., fstoppers and Northrup, have compared high iso results in camera with pushed results in photoshop and found little difference, which supports the latter claim.

If you have a legitimate source about how iso is handled in reality in different camera designs, I would be very interested. So far what I read online is only theories and reverse engineering attempts. Moreover, I would not be surprised that canon and sony designs are different in this matter, as the DR graphs for canon and sony based cameras are very different in how they progress with ISOs.
 
I read some information recently that stated often the noise in a high ISO image is the result of having insufficient light made available to the sensor, which means the signal to noise ratio is reduced because the signal (amount of light provided to the sensor) is so small. The amplification processes, analog or digital, are not necessarily generating a lot of the noise.

The noise becomes obvious because the initial signal captured by the sensor is too low to overcome the noise, not because the gain circuitry is producing a lot of it. At a higher ISO, the noise is amplified just like the signal, and becomes a more obvious part of the image.
 
The answer to your question is no. I typically maximize the light gathered using the aperture and shutter speed which are constrained by other considerations like DoF, subject motion, hand motion, available light, diffraction, etc. If the images are too dark, I use ISO to get the desired brightness. It is more important when shooting jpg as jpg is more limited when pushing in post processing than raw.
 
The following is more pedantry than anything. I think you've got the basic notions okay, but I don't know if your terminology was just unusual, or if you're looking at it from a perspective that might be misleading.
Since exposure happens at the sensor, before ISO gain is applicable, it seems that shutter speed, aperture size, and available light are the components that impact exposure.
That is the classic definition of exposure, and still technically correct. Many people throw ISO into the definition of exposure, especially with the phrase "exposure triangle." Many of us old folks cringe whenever we hear that.
Isn't changing ISO just a way to help compensate for over or under exposure that happens at the sensor?
Since I've just rambled on about "correct" terminology, I'm going to do it again. :-)

"Under exposure" and "over exposure" are aesthetic terms, describing how the photographer feels about a particular capture (at a particular ISO). The sensor has no clue about those concepts. And the word compensating just doesn't really hit me right.

The simple explanation is that as with film, a higher ISO permits reduced exposures for the same (approximate) result.
From what I have learned about ISO, through reading and use, it seems to function similar to an audio amplifier
Close enough. The details vary between sensor designs, and sometimes can get a bit complicated. But from the photographer's point of view, the camera's ISO setting does two things:
  • Changes the Exposure Index for the metering system, the same as you'd find on film cameras from before DX coding was introduced. [This figure may be adjusted via Exposure Compensation, which ironically was introduced with DX coding. On Fuji cameras, the EI also is affected by whether or not you're using Multi metering mode.]
  • Changes the amplification(s) in the sensor and processing system to match that Exposure Index. [This figure may be adjusted via DR settings. DR settings also adjust the JPEG engine to compensate, and flag the Raw file in the hopes the Raw converter will do the same.]
Use extreme caution: rabbit hole ahead.

The hows of sensor amplification are a bit esoteric. Today's sensors convert quantum to analog to digital. Typically, ISO gain is done by amplifying the input to the analog-to-digital converter in order to vary the analog range that maps to the digital output range. Fuji cameras may then manipulate the digital data to achieve the L and H ISO settings; I don't believe this is done on-sensor but I don't know why it would matter where it's done.

In recent dual-gain sensors like Fuji's 24- and 26-megapixel sensors, at lower ISO settings (below 800 for Fuji) the quantum-to-analog gain is reduced, allowing for capturing greater exposures without the Q-to-A conversion process clipping due to overload. That gain reduction is then compensated for in the analog amp, giving the unexpected result that ISO 400 actually has about a quarter stop more read noise than ISO 800 does.
Ref: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#FujiFilm X-T3_14
 
After about 20 years of not engaging in much photography, I returned to it about a year ago via Fujifilm. While refreshing my knowledge of photography, I have seen explanations that ISO is part of the "exposure triangle," but that doesn't seem correct to me.

Since exposure happens at the sensor, before ISO gain is applicable, it seems that shutter speed, aperture size, and available light are the components that impact exposure. Isn't changing ISO just a way to help compensate for over or under exposure that happens at the sensor?

From what I have learned about ISO, through reading and use, it seems to function similar to an audio amplifier while available light, shutter speed, and aperture work together to produce the music track (image) being made audible by the amplifier.

Am I misunderstanding something about the function of ISO gain?
Your understanding is pretty good.

Most people have trouble making the distinction between exposure value (aperture and time) and exposure (lightness in the final image).

Exposure value is what primarily affects noise.

When you raise the ISO setting to compensate for a low exposure value you will see more noise; because of the low exposure value not the raising of the ISO.
 
Since exposure happens at the sensor, before ISO gain is applicable, it seems that shutter speed, aperture size, and available light are the components that impact exposure. Isn't changing ISO just a way to help compensate for over or under exposure that happens at the sensor?
You're getting close. One recommendation I'll make, is to remove subjective evaluations of incorrect exposure, overexposure or underexposure. More on this, later.

Yes, scene brightness, f-stop and shutter speed determine exposure: the brightness of the scene per unit area focused upon the sensor. Strictly speaking, ISO is a standard that relates exposure to lightness in the rendered image. Here's a relevant excerpt from a recent post by Bobn2:

First, ISO, the standard, doesn't apply to raw files (which has long been correctly interpreted from 12232:2006 by Iliah Borg and others, and has now been made explicit in 12232:2019). By extension, it also doesn't apply to sensors, sensor electronics or the read chain in general. Thus talking about 'Fake ISOs' as Jim does, and 'base ISO' as a characteristic of read chain gain are both strictly speaking wrong. 'ISO' relates exposure at the image plane to lightness in the final processed image, and doesn't put any requirements whatsoever on how that mapping is achieved.

Full post: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/poshttps://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62390194 t/62390194

The last sentence in the above excerpt is key. It's the reveal that ISO does not directly impact either exposure (amount of light focused upon the sensor) or gain (amplification of signal). In a nutshell, I think of ISO as assigning an exposure value to a scene. The camera uses this value to determine how light to render each pixel. The rendering is effected by a combination of a manufacturer's algorithm relating the exposure value of a scene to the on-sensor exposure and the manufacturer's in-camera electronics which effect the application of the derived lightness.

So, while ISO can be accurately thought of as one element among many resulting in a post-exposure lightness adjustment, ISO is not the same thing as that lightness adjustment. Nor is ISO the same thing as the means used by the camera to effect the lightness adjustment. This is the best way this non-engineer can think of to describe ISO in a way that encompasses both its nature and the outcome it has a role in producing.
From what I have learned about ISO, through reading and use, it seems to function similar to an audio amplifier while available light, shutter speed, and aperture work together to produce the music track (image) being made audible by the amplifier.

Am I misunderstanding something about the function of ISO gain?
In a public photography forum where folks use conversational language to discuss everything from gear, to technique and even - on rare occasions - actual photographs, I'm a big believer that we need create room for discussions about technical subjects to be broadly accurate without insisting upon the rigor of a peer-reviewed journal paper.

For example, there is value in acknowledging the distinction between exposure settings (f-stop and shutter speed) and ISO. As a general rule, the more light delivered to the sensor without clipping highlights, the better the image quality tends to be. If a person understands that increasing or decreasing ISO does not, in and of itself, result in a change to the amount of light delivered to the sensor, that's useful information which can be applied when using a camera.

Similarly, I think it's of some value to disconnect ISO from the concept of gain. Gain, is one link in a chain of processes applied in the rendering of an image. However, it does not - strictly speaking - directly determine the lightness of a pixel. For this reason, I've taken to describing ISO as a tool used to manage post-exposure lightness adjustment.

To be fair, it's a phrase that conflates a number of processes that are distinct from each other. If I were being pedantic, I'd maintain a strict usage of the term as a standard while avoiding language characterizing ISO as an outcome. However in a public forum, we need ways to talk about technical subjects that might bend reality just a bit...but not so much as to break it. While ISO is not the same as the tools or processes used to adjust image lightness, it is the one control available to us that most directly influences those tools and processes.

I don't describe ISO as gain and certainly not as a sensitivity to light adjustment. The latter implies an ISO setting can, in and of itself, affect how much light from the scene is captured during an exposure, which is incorrect. I use the term, lightness, to distinguish ISO from exposure, which is determined and defined by brightness...an amount of light. I use the term, adjustment, to imply change without assigning a value. It is neither complimentary nor a pejorative. It's a neutral term.

For example, when photographing birds in flight, I might choose an f-stop of f/8 to ensure a depth of field in which the majority of the bird will appear in focus. I might choose a shutter speed of 1/2000 to ensure freezing the movement of the wings. In addition to controlling depth of field and the degree to which motion is frozen, these settings also determine how much light from the scene will be captured during the exposure.

Even on a bright, sunny morning, these settings can result in a dark image at base ISO. If I change the exposure settings to capture more light, the depth of field may be too shallow or the motion blur of the wings too prominent for my liking. While the image at base ISO may be darker than I want, it's not due to an incorrect or even an under exposure. The exposure settings are correct for the image I want to capture. Describing the image as underexposed suggests, in my opinion, an error of some sort was made in choosing the exposure settings. However, that wasn't the case. The settings were chosen to achieve a desired look.

ISO can be used to manage the lightness of the image. We don't go into the entire chain of in-camera processes from ISO establishing an exposure value for the scene through front-end analog amplification to back-end digital amplification and so on. This is a public forum, the online equivalent to folks having a conversation over a meal, a couple of beers or the beverage of one's choice. There's a lot of background information that's just assumed. How else are we're going to solve all the world's problems in an hour? :)

IMO, talking about ISO as managing the post-exposure lightness adjustment adequately summarizes the outcome. While not a strictly accurate description, it does focus the conversation on the outcome...the thing we're actually interested in. It avoids confusing ISO with exposure. It also avoids certain weighted terminology (e.g. incorrect, over, under) and leaves the door open to compare the effects of in-camera ISO to the "exposure compensation" tool in your favorite photo editing app.

That's a subject for another post.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
http://www.billferris.photoshelter.com
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I do not think it has been decided that ISO is gain.
ISO standard puts no constraints on ISO speed implementations. In many cases voltage gain is used, sometimes helped with other methods.

Digital multiplication in the camera pre recording raw data makes for comb-like raw data histogram, if it is 2x multiplication only even values are present in the data. For a regular ISO speed range it is an uncommon implementation.

Some experimental data here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62444347
 
Last edited:
I do not think it has been decided that ISO is gain.
...

Digital multiplication in the camera pre recording raw data makes for comb-like raw data histogram,...
FWIW, here's a concrete example from read noise measurements:

5a28c11b48a347d6be3b8b991707cef6.jpg.png

b7a84d39fa1e42e080baa4300e63de95.jpg.png

Regards

--
Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )
 
Technically you are perfectly right and you have explained it very good. You may have understood it even better than many experienced photographers :-)

But in the practical application I still think that "exposure triangle" is correct. You have 3 ways to expose a dark scene correctly: shutter speed at the cost of blur, aperture at the cost of DOF and ISO at the cost of noise. Or any combination of them.

I've also heard what Banderras said about ISO != Gain. For me as an engineer that makes little to none sense, but there are apparently very knowledgeable people who support this theory.
If I may, ISO is either ISO Speed or ISO Exposure Index; so it's not "gain".

However, the ISO dial that sets the ISO also applies analog gain which improves the image quality that cannot be achieved by post processing.

If you are familiar with a SW (short wave) radio, it has both RF gain and Audio Volume control, and even though both control tend to make the audio louder, RF gain pulls in weak signal that the volume control cannot.
 
Technically you are perfectly right and you have explained it very good. You may have understood it even better than many experienced photographers :-)

But in the practical application I still think that "exposure triangle" is correct. You have 3 ways to expose a dark scene correctly: shutter speed at the cost of blur, aperture at the cost of DOF and ISO at the cost of noise. Or any combination of them.

I've also heard what Banderras said about ISO != Gain. For me as an engineer that makes little to none sense, but there are apparently very knowledgeable people who support this theory.
Let me try to explain myself a little better.

Analog amplification of the analog signal from the sensor is gain.

Remapping DNs after AD conversion is similar to the "levels" tool in photoshop, or histogram stretch in various other software. E.g. you have an 8 bit range, take a subset of that range, and map it to the full 8 bit range again.

Various outlets, e.g., fstoppers and Northrup, have compared high iso results in camera with pushed results in photoshop and found little difference, which supports the latter claim.

If you have a legitimate source about how iso is handled in reality in different camera designs, I would be very interested. So far what I read online is only theories and reverse engineering attempts. Moreover, I would not be surprised that canon and sony designs are different in this matter, as the DR graphs for canon and sony based cameras are very different in how they progress with ISOs.
ISO800 +4stop +50 midtone in DXO
ISO800 +4stop +50 midtone in DXO

ISO 6400 +50 midtone
ISO 6400 +50 midtone

Note the "SERVING SIZE" text...

It looks like ISO6400 applied more gain for better result. The difference is more noticible at full size viewing.
 
Last edited:
I read some information recently that stated often the noise in a high ISO image is the result of having insufficient light made available to the sensor, which means the signal to noise ratio is reduced because the signal (amount of light provided to the sensor) is so small. The amplification processes, analog or digital, are not necessarily generating a lot of the noise.

The noise becomes obvious because the initial signal captured by the sensor is too low to overcome the noise, not because the gain circuitry is producing a lot of it. At a higher ISO, the noise is amplified just like the signal, and becomes a more obvious part of the image.
The light itself is noisy because the photons are generated at a random interval. This is known as shot noise and is higher at lower light level.

All active electronic system add noise; however, the uncorrelated shot noise from the light and the "read noise" from the electronic system adds in quadrature whereas the amplification increase the signal level algebraically.

Hence, the overall image noise is slightly less (but visible at large enlargements) as ISO is increased, if the exposure remained the same. The lower ISO image would have been brightened in PP, which is noisier.
 
The answer to your question is no. I typically maximize the light gathered using the aperture and shutter speed which are constrained by other considerations like DoF, subject motion, hand motion, available light, diffraction, etc. If the images are too dark, I use ISO to get the desired brightness. It is more important when shooting jpg as jpg is more limited when pushing in post processing than raw.
Even if you shoot in RAW, increasing the ISO setting which increases the "analog gain" maximizes the DR of the ADC and reduces the quantization noise.
 
Since exposure happens at the sensor, before ISO gain is applicable, it seems that shutter speed, aperture size, and available light are the components that impact exposure. Isn't changing ISO just a way to help compensate for over or under exposure that happens at the sensor?
You're getting close. One recommendation I'll make, is to remove subjective evaluations of incorrect exposure, overexposure or underexposure. More on this, later.

Yes, scene brightness, f-stop and shutter speed determine exposure: the brightness of the scene per unit area focused upon the sensor. Strictly speaking, ISO is a standard that relates exposure to lightness in the rendered image. Here's a relevant excerpt from a recent post by Bobn2:

First, ISO, the standard, doesn't apply to raw files (which has long been correctly interpreted from 12232:2006 by Iliah Borg and others, and has now been made explicit in 12232:2019). By extension, it also doesn't apply to sensors, sensor electronics or the read chain in general. Thus talking about 'Fake ISOs' as Jim does, and 'base ISO' as a characteristic of read chain gain are both strictly speaking wrong. 'ISO' relates exposure at the image plane to lightness in the final processed image, and doesn't put any requirements whatsoever on how that mapping is achieved.

Full post: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/poshttps://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62390194t/62390194

The last sentence in the above excerpt is key. It's the reveal that ISO does not directly impact either exposure (amount of light focused upon the sensor) or gain (amplification of signal). In a nutshell, I think of ISO as assigning an exposure value to a scene. The camera uses this value to determine how light to render each pixel. The rendering is effected by a combination of a manufacturer's algorithm relating the exposure value of a scene to the on-sensor exposure and the manufacturer's in-camera electronics which effect the application of the derived lightness.

So, while ISO can be accurately thought of as one element among many resulting in a post-exposure lightness adjustment, ISO is not the same thing as that lightness adjustment. Nor is ISO the same thing as the means used by the camera to effect the lightness adjustment. This is the best way this non-engineer can think of to describe ISO in a way that encompasses both its nature and the outcome it has a role in producing.
From what I have learned about ISO, through reading and use, it seems to function similar to an audio amplifier while available light, shutter speed, and aperture work together to produce the music track (image) being made audible by the amplifier.

Am I misunderstanding something about the function of ISO gain?
In a public photography forum where folks use conversational language to discuss everything from gear, to technique and even - on rare occasions - actual photographs, I'm a big believer that we need create room for discussions about technical subjects to be broadly accurate without insisting upon the rigor of a peer-reviewed journal paper.

For example, there is value in acknowledging the distinction between exposure settings (f-stop and shutter speed) and ISO. As a general rule, the more light delivered to the sensor without clipping highlights, the better the image quality tends to be. If a person understands that increasing or decreasing ISO does not, in and of itself, result in a change to the amount of light delivered to the sensor, that's useful information which can be applied when using a camera.

Similarly, I think it's of some value to disconnect ISO from the concept of gain. Gain, is one link in a chain of processes applied in the rendering of an image. However, it does not - strictly speaking - directly determine the lightness of a pixel. For this reason, I've taken to describing ISO as a tool used to manage post-exposure lightness adjustment.

To be fair, it's a phrase that conflates a number of processes that are distinct from each other. If I were being pedantic, I'd maintain a strict usage of the term as a standard while avoiding language characterizing ISO as an outcome. However in a public forum, we need ways to talk about technical subjects that might bend reality just a bit...but not so much as to break it. While ISO is not the same as the tools or processes used to adjust image lightness, it is the one control available to us that most directly influences those tools and processes.

I don't describe ISO as gain and certainly not as a sensitivity to light adjustment. The latter implies an ISO setting can, in and of itself, affect how much light from the scene is captured during an exposure, which is incorrect. I use the term, lightness, to distinguish ISO from exposure, which is determined and defined by brightness...an amount of light. I use the term, adjustment, to imply change without assigning a value. It is neither complimentary nor a pejorative. It's a neutral term.

For example, when photographing birds in flight, I might choose an f-stop of f/8 to ensure a depth of field in which the majority of the bird will appear in focus. I might choose a shutter speed of 1/2000 to ensure freezing the movement of the wings. In addition to controlling depth of field and the degree to which motion is frozen, these settings also determine how much light from the scene will be captured during the exposure.

Even on a bright, sunny morning, these settings can result in a dark image at base ISO. If I change the exposure settings to capture more light, the depth of field may be too shallow or the motion blur of the wings too prominent for my liking. While the image at base ISO may be darker than I want, it's not due to an incorrect or even an under exposure. The exposure settings are correct for the image I want to capture. Describing the image as underexposed suggests, in my opinion, an error of some sort was made in choosing the exposure settings. However, that wasn't the case. The settings were chosen to achieve a desired look.

ISO can be used to manage the lightness of the image. We don't go into the entire chain of in-camera processes from ISO establishing an exposure value for the scene through front-end analog amplification to back-end digital amplification and so on. This is a public forum, the online equivalent to folks having a conversation over a meal, a couple of beers or the beverage of one's choice. There's a lot of background information that's just assumed. How else are we're going to solve all the world's problems in an hour? :)

IMO, talking about ISO as managing the post-exposure lightness adjustment adequately summarizes the outcome. While not a strictly accurate description, it does focus the conversation on the outcome...the thing we're actually interested in. It avoids confusing ISO with exposure. It also avoids certain weighted terminology (e.g. incorrect, over, under) and leaves the door open to compare the effects of in-camera ISO to the "exposure compensation" tool in your favorite photo editing app.

That's a subject for another post.
Much of the (mis)understanding of how ISO dial affect exposure (which it does not) because most modern cameras provide AE (Auto Exposure) which is affected by the ISO setting, resulting the exposure being changed by the ISO dial for the image.

An easy exercise would be M mode or low light scene to show change in ISO may not change the exposure (value).
 
Technically you are perfectly right and you have explained it very good. You may have understood it even better than many experienced photographers :-)

But in the practical application I still think that "exposure triangle" is correct. You have 3 ways to expose a dark scene correctly: shutter speed at the cost of blur, aperture at the cost of DOF and ISO at the cost of noise. Or any combination of them.

I've also heard what Banderras said about ISO != Gain. For me as an engineer that makes little to none sense, but there are apparently very knowledgeable people who support this theory.
Let me try to explain myself a little better.

Analog amplification of the analog signal from the sensor is gain.

Remapping DNs after AD conversion is similar to the "levels" tool in photoshop, or histogram stretch in various other software. E.g. you have an 8 bit range, take a subset of that range, and map it to the full 8 bit range again.

Various outlets, e.g., fstoppers and Northrup, have compared high iso results in camera with pushed results in photoshop and found little difference, which supports the latter claim.

If you have a legitimate source about how iso is handled in reality in different camera designs, I would be very interested. So far what I read online is only theories and reverse engineering attempts. Moreover, I would not be surprised that canon and sony designs are different in this matter, as the DR graphs for canon and sony based cameras are very different in how they progress with ISOs.
ISO800 +4stop +50 midtone in DXO
ISO800 +4stop +50 midtone in DXO

ISO 6400 +50 midtone
ISO 6400 +50 midtone

Note the "SERVING SIZE" text...

It looks like ISO6400 applied more gain for better result. The difference is more noticible at full size viewing.
I can see the difference, and IMHO it's "little difference". Tony Northrup did this too and to him there was no difference. Fstoppers did this and found there is this difference. That's not my point. I actually do not recommend shooting at base iso, I recommend proper in camera ISO setting based on the info online, because the output is better. My point is, people are too quick to attribute this difference to "analog" gain, when this is not a fact.

For example, what does RF signal has to do with this?
 
I do not think it has been decided that ISO is gain.
...

Digital multiplication in the camera pre recording raw data makes for comb-like raw data histogram,...
FWIW, here's a concrete example from read noise measurements:

5a28c11b48a347d6be3b8b991707cef6.jpg.png

b7a84d39fa1e42e080baa4300e63de95.jpg.png

Regards
Thanks for the data. This is what it looks like when I stretch the histogram in photoshop, but I am not sure which point you are making, can you elaborate a bit more please. Doesn't this histogram show that the signal is amplified after A/D converter?
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top