Is 10d focus issue resolved now?

[Pearl Rider]

He tends to pop in and out a few times a day. Probably checking
for my posts, his old threads, and any new AF threads.

He was on earlier today.

Sorry but I have a life to take care of. Been visiting a good friend who is fighting cancer, spent some time with the family outdoors, got some groceries, tried a new video card in my computer, and got repulsed with some of Mishkin's garbage. ;-)

As for the focus test, I feel more people will actually use the one Anthony proposed than the "Canon approved" (misleading term really) one that you suggest. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine test target but most people won't go to the trouble of constructing it. This one, however...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6198118

... would be better than the ruler provided the center focus point was used and the square was entirely encompassed by the target so that the background wouldn't come into play.

 

[DavidP #28649]

I would still recommend testing ANY new gear (whether camera or lens) quickly enough to ensure that you have a unit that works properly.

thanks for your response and link to the test. This test is very
specific with details. Based on your response I assume then that
there still are bads 10ds coming out? Even future purchases should
run this tests?

--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.

 

[Photogear]

courios, if it a problem, wouldn't it be addressed by now? how do you know it hasn't? still waiting for a recent purchaser with a problem to resond.

I seriously doubt the percentage of problems have significantly
changed, upwards OR downwards.

thanks for your response. but I think it has already been
established that most cameras, even the earlier ones had no
problems. what I was asking was whether any recent purchases proved
to be of problematic cameras.

--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with
years of training and experience in such things.

 

[Photogear]

OK, so yours is not really a problem then. User error has already been established. thanks. Just wondering whether canon has addressed the issue with ones that do have a problem.

But after a month of learning how to deal with the 10D's particular
autofocus design I started to realise that my pictures are much
less affected by "AF issue" than before to even be minimised to few
percent.

Accually I discoverd that now I know which picture is gonna be out
of focus right after the shot before I even look at it (like when
the object moves during exposure).

So in my case as for right now I'm convinced that it was more the
matter of practice how to deal with this particular AF design than
the real AF issue what I was suspecting at the early days of 10D
possesion.

I also learned that the model of lens has much more to do in terms
of focus accuracy than the body.
--
Bartek

Hello,

Currently in considerations of purchasing a canon 10d. Has the
focusing issue been resolved on the latest batch of cameras? Was
this only a problem on earlier batches? Anyone that has found a
problem please post purchase date especially if recent. If I
purchase tomorrow, is it still possible to get a lemon and should I
run tests? If yes, is there a valid yet simple test to do.

Many thanks

 

[DavidP #28649]

See if Mishkin would make one for you for a reasonable fee.

another link but much too complex! Looks like a 10 week project.

--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.

 

[Photogear]

hello,

was it really brand new or did they just send you a refurb?

The camera i was sent last week in my opinion has a focus issue
remember i am just one person i recommend you do a search in other
forums.
even if there is a problem the odds are you will get a good camera
just becareful of the return policy and no matter what you will be
happy?
and let us know what you think after you purchase it.

 

[Pearl Rider]

... that it never was an "issue". It's just the fact that some defective units got in the hands of people who make a lot of noise here. As you've probably noticed in the beginning of this thread, your early responders claim no problems with the early units. I, myself, have two and they are widely spaced in serial numbers with one of them being in the early batch. I have no problems with either of these units. As with any complex piece of electronic equipment, it's possible to get a bad unit so try to buy with that in mind. I bought both of mine (as well as other equipment) from a place where I wouldn't have any trouble returning it in the event of a problem.

Check it out while you have the opportunity to return it if necessary but try to get familiar with it as well as you can. Read the manual, read the tips on this forum, and use it a bit to get the feel of it before you torture test it. Don't automatically assume that you have a bad unit if there's a slight discrepancy. If you need to, supply a sample of the bad performance and the conditions as well as the EXIF data so people can help.

 

[Pearl Rider]

courios, if it a problem, wouldn't it be addressed by now? how do
you know it hasn't? still waiting for a recent purchaser with a
problem to resond.

You'll find that David will answer most every question related to AF on the 10D and 300D.

 

[Photogear]

hellos jak,

Yes, by far the most bang for the buck when one considers features and use of great canon lenses which is why its up for my consideration even with risk of getting a defect.

Photogear wrote:

Not sure there is an issue for you to be concerned about. I
certainly recommend that you test your camera (regardless of brand
or model). Regardless of how busy you are when you get the camera,
just be sure to test it. Your best bet is to buy the camera from
anybody that gives you at least a two week time frame for a full
refund (two weeks is more than enough time for testing)

FWIW, I tested three 10D bodies. One was slightly front focusing,
one back, and the third (guess which one I kept) was pretty much
right on the mark. The two so-so units were good bodies. If I had
not had the good fortune of running into the third body, I would
have been very happy with either one of the two so-so bodies.

BTW, the 10D is a great camera from my perspective. If you can
afford the weight and dollars associated with a 1Ds, go for it.

Regards,

Joe Kurkjian, Pbase Supporter

http://www.pbase.com/jkurkjia

 

[Photogear]

Bob, thanks for all info!

My first 10D was purchased from Delta in late July of 2003 and had
a serial number starting with 6, the second one Delta International
sent me was in August and had a serial number starting with 7.
When the second one came, I called Delta and told them I was going
to send it in for calibrating but I was worried that if Canon
didn't satisfy me, I would be stuck with this thing. Delta said,
if Canon doesn't satisfy you, just call us back. We'll satisfy
you. That was comforting.

Bob

 

[DavidP #28649]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6221631

Well, this guy just got his 2 weeks ago. It doesn't sound like it's right to me, though he's apparently elected to ignore it.

Though given the lack of data and pictures, it's not 100% certain whether he has a mis-calibrated AF or not.

--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm

Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.

 

[Pearl Rider]

OK, so yours is not really a problem then. User error has already
been established. thanks. Just wondering whether canon has
addressed the issue with ones that do have a problem.

People have sent their cameras back and got them fixed the first time. Some weren't so lucky and have had to send them back multiple times. Of course, this isn't something that's particular to Canon as much as it's made out to be here in this forurm. I witnessed the same frustrations while I owned an Olympus camera and have seen similar posts in forums dedicated to other brands as well. I believe what we're seeing here is a question of tolerances. This equipment is based on and designed for film photography. The tolerances aren't as tight. When you get a lens and body in which the tolerances cancel each other out, there's no apparent problem. When the tolerances are in on the same end of the scale, the problem appears.

 

[bill jones]

Your post inspired me to do one more type of test
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6222900
see the original at http://www.pbase.com/image/21783058

i realize this test wasn't done in perfect conditions since it was done indoors but so far every picture i have taken at 1.8 shows front focus no matter what test or what conditions

 

[Frank Nichols]

Photogear,

All you need from Mishkins site is the center target sheet - print it out at 10x7x300dpi. Then put set it up on seomthing with texture - like a rug, or put a ruler next to it.

Works great.

Frank

Here's another chart you can download and use:

http://www.canondslr.com/articles/m-dream/

It shows how to create a ruler and a virtual ruler to use, too.

where can i get a copy of that chart

--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with
years of training and experience in such things.

--
Someday I will take a good photograph - until then I will blame my equipment.

 

[Nabal]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=10948

Canon approved. Be sure to do it in GOOD lighting. As in outdoors.

What difference does it make if the camera can focus accurately only in "good" lighting. Does this imply that the camera can only reliably be used for shooting images in good lighting?

Personally, I am baffled by the autofocus performance of my 10D. In my portrait studio, the 10D nails perfect focus 100% of the time. This is at shooting distances of about 5 feet to 20 feet. The only light available for focusing comes from the modeling lights of my strobes, which are two 250 watt quartz lamps with their brightness reduced by the large softboxes they are usually shrouded by.

The camera mounted flash I use at wedding receptions uses the Metz SCA 300 system, and I have a large Metz focus assist illuminator mounted in the hotshoe of my 10D. For dancing pictures in near total darkness, my 10D nails perfect autofocus 100% of the time - with the only illumination available coming from the Metz red focus assist lamp.

Big deal, so what? The "so what" is that when I'm shooting portraits outdoors in daylight, the so called "good lighting," my Canon 10D front-focuses about 50% of the time - regardless of the lens being used.

I've been a member of this forum since before the 10D was brought to market. I've heard all the arguments, read all of the suggestions, and tried everything that can be tried - including sending my camera to New Jersey for repair. At this point, my solution is to use my 10D only in dim lighting situations where the autofocusing performs flawlessly - and never use it outdoors in daylight, where the autofocusing sucks. By the way, I'm a pro portrait photographer and always have the camera tripod mounted when shooting outdoors. The problem ain't camera shake, it ain't slow shutter speeds and it ain't poor quality lenses.

So my question is, what is accomplished by taking pictures of focusing charts in "good" lighting? I've done that, and the results have revealed nothing of value to me - or suggested any course of remedial action.

In my 30-plus years of serious photography, and perhaps $100G spent on various photo equipment, I'm certain the Canon 10D is the most frustrating piece of equipment I've ever owned. In fact, I've owned cameras that frustrated me less which I've laid down in my driveway and deliberately driven over with my car.

Gene Windell

 

[Frank Nichols]

The reason for doing the test under controlled conditions and with bright lighting is to establish a base condition for the AF system that rules out other possibilities. Once you have run the controlled test, then you can better interpret the results of other shooting conditions. In other words, if it doesn't work right under the BEST of conditions it is broken (or needs calibration). However, if it does work right under the best conditions, then other things must be considered to determine the cause of the failure in less than the best conditions.

That is the theory. Personally I think the AF should work correctly in a range of "expected" conditions and when it finds itself outside those conditions it should not lock focus, so the phtoographer has the option to manually focus. IF that were the case, then you could test the AF in any reasonable lighting/setting and if it locks the results would be valid.

In your case, I expect you need to send it in to Canon AGAIN, and maybe even again after that. It is a shame that a $1500 body can not be expected to work out of the box. But whatever the cause of your focusing problems, they are real to you and should be fixed. The 10D is very capable of working in both settings you describe. If yours is not, then it is broken - period.

Frank

 

[Jack G Heckler]

Your post inspired me to do one more type of test
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6222900
see the original at http://www.pbase.com/image/21783058
i realize this test wasn't done in perfect conditions since it was
done indoors but so far every picture i have taken at 1.8 shows
front focus no matter what test or what conditions

Bill...I'm having a hard time seeing any point on the ruler that looks in focus. How did the histogram look on the original? Are there blown highlights that mask the ruler markings? Maybe too much artificial light? I have also been playing around with some focus tests in the evening and have experimented with a number of different lighting modes and shutter speeds to get it right with my 50mm 1.4 wide open. Actually liked my remote control test the best...laid it on its side at a 45 degree angle and focused on the "5" on the keypad and it came out sharp as a tack with the numbers "2" and "8" equally OOF. Now I want to test my other lenses and see if they are as good as the 50mm.

Jack

 

[Doug J]

I have an early (April) Asian-released 10D, I am aware of 4 other photogs with early and late Asian-released 10Ds. Together there are 20-30 lenses in use by these cameras, primes and zooms, old and new, mostly Canon but a number are Sigma and there is a Tamaron or two. Perhaps we are all lucky, but I have not heard of a single focus issue nor have I personally experienced a problem. I believe in testing equipment to ensure I learn & understand how to use it, and verify it works properly. There have been many useful posts here related to performance and testing. There have also been a lot of posts that foster a sense of paranoia and doubt, these are unfortunate.

There are certainly some cameras with problems as well as lenses. This should be expected and Canon should be up to correcting the problems. There does not seem to be an endemic problem with the 10D from my experience, nor is it statistically valid to extrapolate the problems posted here into an entire population of cameras and estimate a failure rate.

Had I waited to make the purchase until I was confident there were no problems whatsoever, I would probably still be waiting… for my first car, TV, stereo, film SLR, etc…

--
Doug
http://pbase.com/dougj

 

[Nabal]

In your case, I expect you need to send it in to Canon AGAIN, and
maybe even again after that. It is a shame that a $1500 body can
not be expected to work out of the box. But whatever the cause of
your focusing problems, they are real to you and should be fixed.
The 10D is very capable of working in both settings you describe.
If yours is not, then it is broken - period.

Thanks for the sentiments Frank.

When a camera is sent in for repair at a factory service center, it is required that an explanation of the problem be provided. I don't know how to describe the problem without sounding like I'm crazy. My understanding of how the autofocusing system works leads me to believe the problem I'm having is impossible. If it doesn't make any sense to me, how can I expect it to make any sense to a camera repair technician? All they can do is test it, under very controlled conditions. I've already learned that it can pass the standard focus test - but that doesn't seem to have any bearing on the results I get in real-world applications.

I don't intend to send my 10D back in for repair again. I'll just wait until the updated 1D, or EOS 3D, or whatever it turns out to be comes to market and buy one of those. And then, I'll dispose of my 10D in the way that will give me the most emotional satisfaction at the time. Though it is illegal and morally wrong to kill another person, I have no reservations whatsoever about "killing" a camera. I ponder whether I would enjoy more the smashing of it with a sledgehammer, or crushing it in a vise. My Canon 10D is the only piece of machinery I've ever owned, the only inanimate object, that could make me feel bad about myself. The camera leaves me feeling powerless, inadequate, impotent. It insults me, and I will have my revenge. Remember that Star Trek movie "The Wrath of Khan?" What we're dealing with here is the wrath of Gene. I will destroy the camera, before it destroys me.

Gene Windell

 

[Melanie Kipp]

If you're gonna smash it, send it to me. I'll pay the shipping costs!

--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com