Initial reaction NOT favorable

[BillZM]

The counterargument is, with intermittent failure such as with occasional focusing problems, it's often hard for an individual user to recognize the fault is occurring, until after some time under a variety of conditions, they somehow see a correlation and realize the failure is occurring more consistently (not just randomly, or still randomly, but at greater frequency) with certain lenses, settings, shooting conditions. At this point, the user realizes he has an equipment issue. This may take months of usage before this realization sets in.

Olympus, on the other hand, has much more knowledge, of weaknesses known originally to design staff, of their own testing, of feedback from multiple customers, etc. If Olympus is fully aware of this issue, it does raise the question as to whether Olympus should have a more pro-active campaign to resolve it, especially for a professional offering, or a more flexible policy regarding out-of-warranty repairs (if they choose not to do a pro-active campaign).

I'm not arguing the fee. $100 seems somewhere between minimal and significant (if it were me, I wouldn't have blinked at $50; $100 seems a bit annoying).

 

[Rriley]

thats interesting Bruce
its like there are 2 breeds of E3
you deal with Olympus America right ?

Actually, that's an interesting story. I started off (by mistake)
sending an email to Oly Japan (I had opened their webpage by
mistake). I followed that up with emails and phone calls to Olympus
America. Ultimately I sent the camera to Olympus service on the west
coast (Cyprus, Ca).
--

Bruce
challenge the service fee
on the basis that 1DMkIII (whos AF conundrums continue) are fixed free OC

servicing for 1DMkII to check AF accuracy and replace the sub mirror assy are free

in any event, if your camera was never right during the warranty period
you ought have OOF images to prove that

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı

 

[Mike_PEAT]

When sending in the E-3 I had explicitly detailed the problems and
even pointed to the thread here on DPREVIEW (which they acknowledged
reading).

They asked why I thought the repair should be "free?" I
told them why I thought the way I thought and asked if they knew what
was wrong with it? They replied that they hadn't identified the root
of the problem but it would cost $99.75 to fix!

I assume the person in the second paragraph wasn't the same person in the first one...did you send them the replies from the first person (assuming it was done via email) where they did acknowledge the problem?

This isn't an unusual situation in ANY business where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is talking about.

For instance, I talked to an Oly tech rep at a trade show about an issue with my E-330, and they acknowledged the issue when shown it and said Oly should issue a firmware upgrade for it, but when dealing with Oly the head office they say there is no problem and I'm not using the camera properly (this is my 2nd "E" and 3rd Oly).

 

[Hawaii-geek]

I can understand where Olympus is comming from, Out of Warrentee.

And IF us$100 is there Flate Rate for "Everything" I "might" be pretty happy with that ... if it also includes 2nd day air back.

• And WAY happy if it was my fault!

• but, I also understand a UNhappyness ... if the issue being fixed is a Manf Defect , that should not have been there in the first place, and should have been corrected.

Example, as in a case near and dear to my heart lol ... say a 14-35 f2 SWD user never "really" did any low light AF (very possable).

Then one day is asked to do a wedding for a friend. Of course he is going to expect great things from the 14-35.

And if this is NOT a FIXED lens to start with, and there was NO official Recall ... he "might" discover it , out of warrentee ... this, would be a gray area ... were I would argue that it should be done Free.
HG
(Yes, I feel my 14-35 f2 SWD with my e30 is working fine, in low light)

--

Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots'

Love f2 Oly lens wide open ... 14-35mm f2, & a 50mm f2+1.4TC is my fav. combo on two 'IS' oly bodys.

 

[Raist3d]

though I can understand Mithrandir's point on them being skeptical, but I have a hunch they know this peculiar back focusing issue.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

 

[CrashE3]

HG.. the difference here is, you did not wait until the lens or camera was 6 months out of warranty to make your complaint or send it in. You suspected that there was a problem, tested reasonably, and went through the process. After following your threads, I would not be suprised to find out that it was your issue that gave the engineers what they needed to provide the fix.

--
Visualize Whirled Peas.

 

[Raist3d]

if they charged me $100, I would still think- well ok. You check everything else, fix the darn rubber grip coming off (another well known Olympus manufacturing defect though they have improved over time on this one it seems)...

But when I get it back, after paying that, it better work. But I don't want to jump to any judgements and conclusions on that end until I give it a try

There is simply no excuse at a camera this high priced, marketed at the pro market. If I was them, as much as it cost, would have called in a recall. Reputation/brand is more important over something like this, when tackling the pros.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

 

[Mithandir]

But Olympus has not officially acknowledge this problem to be systematic. I'll take your word that it is, and shame on Olympus for not coming forth with it, but you cannot expect a service center to override company policy. This is an issue that needs to be acknowedged by top management, not the grunts lower down. As I said before, it should be taken up with Olympus directly, not their repair center.
--
Mithandir,
Eternal Amateur
http://www.wizardtrails.com/

 

[nk4002r]

I strongly disagree with the analogy which paints the OP as a cry-baby and that Honda story is pointless. If it is not fit for purpose and has a hidden flaw, in my opinion it is still the manufacturer's responsibility regardless of the arbitrary 365 days limit set forth in their warranty agreement. If it was not for consumer protection laws, most greedy corporations would opt for much shorter 30/60 or 90 days guarantees... I believe that it would be the best interest of any company to at least extend the warranty in case of a serial defect (even if a full product recall would be too costly), because satisfied customers are more likely to be repeat customers.

I don't own the E3, but in this case the customer is right: the focus issues have been mentioned by several owners on this forum, it is quite self-serving for Olympus not to acknowledge the pattern of failure and accept responsibility for the fault with the fastest auto-focus system of the world !

 

[olyflyer]

Hi Bruce,

All I can say, take the deal. I know they could not claim money from me here in Sweden in your position because of Swedish consumer protection laws, but since your camera is no longer under warranty, IMHO $100 is a good deal if you get your problems fixed. Also, I asssume if you pay the 100 bucks then you get the camera back with some kind of new warranty for that focus (at least that would be the case in Sweden) which means if the problem is not fixed they have to fix it free of charge within that period.

I understand your frustration, but at the same time I understand them as well.

My camera will also depart tomorrow or Monday latest, but I still have some official Oly waranty, which in Europe is 2 years in total.
--
http://www.olyflyer.blogspot.com/

 

[Bruce Spell]

"Hi Honda dealership. You know that car i bought from you 42 months
ago? Yeah, the one with the warranty that expired six months ago?

Well, ever since I drove it off the lot 3 and a half years ago, the
engine doesn't accelerate too well. Could you take a look at it
please?

What do you mean you're going to charge me to diagnose the problem.
You should fix it for free because, well, it hasn't worked right
since I bought it and I know for a fact that others have had the same
problem"

Yep, still sounds so lame dude. Pay the money and get the camera
fixed, or tell them to ship it back to you as is, it's your choice.
Please don't whine about it here though.

First off they did not tell me it would cost anything to diagnose the problem. They told me it would cost $XX dollars to FIX the problem. I didn't have an issue with that until I asked them what the problem was. When they couldn't tell me that's when I started to complain. If they don't know what's causing the problem then how can they know what it will take to fix it? That's just lame (to use your words) in my book.

BTW, I happen to work in customer support for one of the largest computer storage manufacturers in the world. And yes, for our high end customers we often will fix problems we recognize were inherent defects free of charge whether the equipment is still under warranty or not. That's called SERVICE to the customer. Something that appears to be lost on you.
--
Bruce

 

[Bruce Spell]

You expect them to take in your camera outside of warantee and
promise to repair it for free without them knowing what the issue is
and what caused it and then when they refuse to do so you get angry
with them.

Ah, but there's the rub. I didn't expect them to repair it for free without them knowing what the issue is or what caused it. I expected them to tell me what the issue is and what caused it and then determine what the cost to repair it would be. Then I could make an informed decision on whether I thought it was fair or not. To quote me a "standard" repair fee without knowing what is wrong is like telling me, "we'll clean/adjust your camera and you'll get it back just like it was when it was new." Well, no thank you - I had it when it was new and I don't care to have it in that shape any more!

I'm sorry, but you're out of warantee. If you have an issue with
Olympus about firmware 1.4 you should raise it with them and not the
hapless technicians. If you have an issue with focussing on the E-3
in general then frankly you've had a long time to take this up with
them inside the warantee period.
--

Olympus is Olympus whether I'm talking to service or technical support or management. They represent the company and are employed to interface with the customers. If Olympus didn't think there were issues with the focus in the E3 they wouldn't have released mulitiple firmware updates in order to TRY to fix it. This tells me they recognize there's a problem. In this case they should take the next step and accept that their attempts to resolve that problem have not worked in all cases and do what it takes to complete the job - warranty or not.

--
Bruce

 

[Bruce Spell]

Lets just think about one thing here. There is a difference about a
guarantee, where if something GOES wrong, then they will fix it free;
as opposed to a design fault that shouldn't have been there in the
first place.

Thank you Gareth! A voice of reason. That's all that I can expect from a manufacturer.

--
Bruce

 

[Bruce Spell]

Hi Bruce,

All I can say, take the deal. I know they could not claim money from
me here in Sweden in your position because of Swedish consumer
protection laws, but since your camera is no longer under warranty,
IMHO $100 is a good deal if you get your problems fixed.

We'll see when it is returned. If it is truly fixed then the $100 may be worth it. I have my doubts based on the conversation I had though. I would just feel more confident if they had told me exactly what was wrong.

Also, I
asssume if you pay the 100 bucks then you get the camera back with
some kind of new warranty for that focus (at least that would be the
case in Sweden) which means if the problem is not fixed they have to
fix it free of charge within that period.

Yes, it will have a "service warrany" when it is returned. Whatever good that will do...

I understand your frustration, but at the same time I understand them
as well.

My frustration is heightened by the fact that I've been a long-standing Olympus customer for a very long time. I'm asking myself why at this point...

My camera will also depart tomorrow or Monday latest, but I still
have some official Oly waranty, which in Europe is 2 years in total.
--

Good luck with your camera! I hope they can resolve things to your satisfaction.

--
Bruce

 

[Akemi]

This is really unfair. In Europe Olympus would be obliged to warranty the product for 2 years. The retailer you purchased from could be liable to cover any defect or unreasonable wear for up to 6 years depending on the value and type of product. It is not unreasonable to expect a camera to focus for the lifetime of the product.
--
Akemi - The little Light in the Darkness.

 

[Laszlo13]

Bruce in that case, I now agree with you, it does sound like games are being played. I missed the part as to why you haven't sent it in earlier - did the realization that issue is both common and fixable just come to light, through the forum?

 

[Larry Lynch]

I can't really argue that they should fix it free of charge. What
bothers me is that they told me the technician had looked at it and
HE determined the cost would be $100. If that's the case then why
couldn't HE determine what the fix would be?

--
Bruce

The kind of work that is usually done in a service center for electronic gear is really rather simple.

The guy doing the "fix", doesnt really need to know "whats wrong", he only needs to know what "module" in the camera isnt working.

The "Tech" can then look up the flat rate for replacing the module, and quote a price without knowing what is really wrong.

Could he diagnose the root problem??? Yes, eventually, if you dont mind paying the charges for the time... It usually is more economical to just replace the module that isnt functioning properly, than it is to know WHY it isnt functioning.

This type of repair service bloomed after TV receivers went "all solid state"...Motorola even pioneered it under the "Quasaar" "works in a drawer" add campaign.

Like it or not, it is the way most electronic devices are serviced.

I feel that $99 is rather cheap to get a camera fixed AFTER the year(or 90 days, or 2 years) of "Free" service is up.

--
Larry In Mystic Connecticut, USA

STRESS RELIEF:

Handle things like a dog does
If you cant eat it
and you cant play with it
Pee on it and walk away.

 

[olyflyer]

This is really unfair. In Europe Olympus would be obliged to warranty
the product for 2 years.

Well, in Europe we pay a considerably higher price for the camera then in USA. I call that unfair. Personally I'd like to have less warranty, even if that is in some cases would lead to an economic loss for some products, but over a lif time I really believe it would be more profitable.

The retailer you purchased from could be liable to cover any defect or
unreasonable wear for up to 6 years depending on the value and type
of product.

No, not the retailer, it is actually the manufacturer and it is not for 6 years in Europe, maybe in some countries in Europe. In Sweden it's only three years. Of course, manufacturers or retailers can give you more warranty, but that's not probable on consumer electronics. You are free to purchase extra warranty from most retailers, but that's a different thing.

It is not unreasonable to expect a camera to focus for the lifetime
of the product.

Indeed, that's very unreasonable to expect, unless you define "life time" to something like 3-5 years. A camera has a lot of moving parts, and all those parts are sensitive to wear and tear. Apart from that, how long the life time of the camera is depends on the user as well and on the environment it is used in. Not only the moving parts, but even electronics wear out in time.
--
http://www.olyflyer.blogspot.com/

 

[olyflyer]

Bruce in that case, I now agree with you, it does sound like games
are being played. I missed the part as to why you haven't sent it in
earlier - did the realization that issue is both common and fixable
just come to light, through the forum?

We really don't know how common the problem is and that it is fixable.

AFAIK, the problem is only in a few cameras, by far all and not even majority, unless the majority of the users don't care or can's see properly.
--
http://www.olyflyer.blogspot.com/

 

[Raist3d]

But Olympus has not officially acknowledge this problem to be
systematic. I'll take your word that it is, and shame on Olympus for
not coming forth with it, but you cannot expect a service center to
override company policy. This is an issue that needs to be
acknowedged by top management, not the grunts lower down. As I said
before, it should be taken up with Olympus directly, not their repair
center.

That's why I said I understand some of your points. But with something like this issue a repair center will already know what's going on, since it will be known by them, by them.

And I misspelled your nick - sorry for that

--
Mithandir,
Eternal Amateur
http://www.wizardtrails.com/

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'