image causing a "stir"??

[Kbone]

And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears
into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn way any more.

Kevin,

This verse of scripture refers to a time when Christ has returned and rules upon the earth. The idea that this is a state of affairs that we can achieve apart from His presence among us is erroneous. Don't worry, the time will come when this comes to pass. In the meantime, the means we have been given that bets achieves a moderately peaceful existance is the righteous use of force and strength against the evil in this world.
-Kbone
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

 

[Thomas Gardner]

But sometimes you have to fight... Freedom wasnt won by peacefull
activists..

Ever hear of a guy called Gandhi?

You know that there was a lot of bloodshed and it was pressure from home not Gandhi that finished the job.

Show me a people who are free,, and I'll show you a people who have
been bloodied by war to obtain that freedom...

Again ... ever hear of a guy called Gandhi? Or that day we don't
have to go to work in January, that has something to do with MiLK?

Again there was a lot of blood shed on the road, over seven hundred thousand died as it was a long, long road. Not a road that was created by MLK. It was a road that was built by others starting over a hundred years before his time and because of these others the road was thankfully there for MLK to use.

 

[John Foote]

They both knew their enemy. Democracies, subject to the sway of public opinion. Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, et.al. could give a fig about public opinion. They could kill and kill and kill until everybodies pretty much dead.

One more problem with Gandhi and MLK... They both got shot to death.

But sometimes you have to fight... Freedom wasnt won by peacefull
activists..

Ever hear of a guy called Gandhi?

Show me a people who are free,, and I'll show you a people who have
been bloodied by war to obtain that freedom...

Again ... ever hear of a guy called Gandhi? Or that day we don't
have to go to work in January, that has something to do with MiLK?

 

[Kbone]

Ever hear of a guy called Gandhi?

Yeah. Ever hear of the guy who murdered him? A fanatical muslim who didn't agree with him. If you had been standing in the crowd and had a gun in your hand and a full five seconds with full foreknowledge of what that assassin was about to do would you have shot him or talked to him in an attempt to show him the error of his ways?
-Kbone
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

That must be it, I haven't a clue. Run with that, that's good.

...I have to confirm that - you do sound like you have no clue. You sound like a teenager watching CNN the whole day and taking for granted what he hears. Your comments sound brainwashed and completely detached from what's going on and what it implies for normal people.

Andi

 

[Thomas Gardner]

There you go, discount anything that doesn't support your point of
view.

...like that posting, for example?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4723249

Not. It doesn't discount anything. I disagrees with your point of view in that I don't believe it's naieve, I believe that it's using your brain and not using violence to settle difference.

If I don't like a business's attitude, I walk away, why should that be any different when I don't like a country's attitude towards my country. What would you suggest, continuing to let them insult us and do nothing. Why I couldn't do that. Why? It would be very French and that just wouldn't do.

 

[Thomas Gardner]

That must be it, I haven't a clue. Run with that, that's good.

...I have to confirm that - you do sound like you have no clue. You
sound like a teenager watching CNN the whole day and taking for
granted what he hears. Your comments sound brainwashed and
completely detached from what's going on and what it implies for
normal people.

Ahhhh, you reveil yourself.

You've now confired that I don't have a clue. Good. That's good.

You've now determined I sound like a teenager. Good. That's good.

I watch CNN the whole day long. Wow! You're amazing.

I believe everything I hear (take for granted) I didn't know it was that transparent.

That's it, they hauled my into rm 221 and I'm now a brain washed robot. Please come rescue me. I'm waiting for liberation.

Abnormality. That's what I have. Wow!

Gee, I'm in your debt. Thanks for setting me free.

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

Hypothetical:

Not hypothetical, but simply dead wrong. When did Iraq "knock down" the US? The two countries (plus others) go a long way back. The world is not about the "good" and the "bad" guys, I'm afraid. There is a lot more grey out there than you are probably aware of.

On a personal level: I do believe (out of experience9 that violence does not solve problems. "Eye for eye..." only creates more violence; the intelligent and moral answer to violence is not counter-violence. The stone age is over, got it?

Andi

 

[Thomas Gardner]

Yes, exactly. Now you probably understand why the rest of the world
was against an unilateral US aggression that will create more
terrorism.

The terroism is there because these are hateful people, not because of the US and the US isn't going it alone. When are you wack jobs going to stop this "unilateral" mantre nonsense.

 

[Kbone]

On a personal level: I do believe (out of experience9 that violence
does not solve problems. "Eye for eye..." only creates more
violence; the intelligent and moral answer to violence is not
counter-violence. The stone age is over, got it?

Andi

Sometimes the only two choices available are violence or surrender. I know whcih one I would choose, but us Americans are like that. Dumbasses that see things in black and white. It's a good thing for us that we fight so well.

Which one would you choose, Andi? At what point would you be willing to fight? Personally, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Really, sometimes those are the actual choices that people and nations face.
-Kbone

--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

 

[Forrest41926]

They both knew their enemy. Democracies, subject to the sway of
public opinion. Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, et.al. could give a fig
about public opinion. They could kill and kill and kill until
everybodies pretty much dead.

Actually, these people have to care very much what their people think. That's why a lot of them are called fascists; they had to put up a convincing facade. Look what happened to Mousilini (sp?) when he lost the public favor...

One more problem with Gandhi and MLK... They both got shot to death.

Now that's a real problem ... and a pretty difficult one to overcome!

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

I walk away, why should that
be any different when I don't like a country's attitude towards my
country.

What's a "country's attitude", and what's "your country"? That sounds like you are a) not able to distinguish between people and the world news on CNN anymore or b) you are really that nationalist. In case of a)... ...get some fresh air... ...in case of b)... ...oh well, this attitude can be found in all corners on this planet.

What would you suggest, continuing to let them insult us
and do nothing.

Who is "we"? Behind which group exactly are you trying to hide? Or are you just a schizo? In the first case, get some fresh air, in the second case get some help, it's manageable in most cases, I heard.

Andi

 

[Forrest41926]

Ever hear of a guy called Gandhi?

Yeah. Ever hear of the guy who murdered him? A fanatical muslim who
didn't agree with him. If you had been standing in the crowd and
had a gun in your hand and a full five seconds with full
foreknowledge of what that assassin was about to do would you have
shot him or talked to him in an attempt to show him the error of
his ways?

Since we're getting into hypotheticals and seeing the future here ... if you could go back in time and give a six-year-old Saddam too much sugar and send him into a life of dentistry instead of dictatorship, but you would have to stand on your head every day for a year afterwards, what would you do???

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

Abnormality. That's what I have. Wow!
Gee, I'm in your debt. Thanks for setting me free.

Nope, I said you have no clue (=lack information / processing capabilities). I did not comment on your mental health. But if you ask me: Yes, I do think you sound rather unreal.

Andi

 

[Forrest41926]

But sometimes you have to fight... Freedom wasnt won by peacefull
activists..

Ever hear of a guy called Gandhi?

You know that there was a lot of bloodshed and it was pressure from
home not Gandhi that finished the job.

Yes, there was quite a bit of blood shed. Gandhi's camp was subject to quite a bit of violence, but they won their freedom without ever having to resort to violence themselves. Like you said, the Indians were able to put enough political pressure on the situation, that they didn't have to resort to war.

 

[Kbone]

Forrest wrote:
That's why a lot of them are called fascists; they had to

put up a convincing facade. Look what happened to Mousilini (sp?)
when he lost the public favor...

The word "fascist" is rooted in the word "fascicle", a bundle or cluster of stems, flowers, or leaves. The relationship is drawn from the tightly bound, strict order of a properly constructed fascicle. In like manner, fascism demands an extremely ordered, restricted and authoritarian system.
There is absolutely no relationship to or root in the word "facade".
-Kbone
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

Sometimes the only two choices available are violence or surrender.

The number of choices perceived depends on the availability of information to a large degree. If you grow a little older, you will notice that it's never "A or B".

people and nations face.

A "nation" is not the same as a person, not at all. But there are political perceptions that give faces to "nations", sort of, and perceive them as organisms with an own life.

Andi

 

[Kbone]

Since we're getting into hypotheticals and seeing the future here
... if you could go back in time and give a six-year-old Saddam too
much sugar and send him into a life of dentistry instead of
dictatorship, but you would have to stand on your head every day
for a year afterwards, what would you do???

I'd kill the little b*stard and not stand on my head.
-Kbone

--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

 

[gpb11]

I gave a very simple situation and am curious as to your answer as to how you would handle it given the circumstances outlined.

I'm not even talking about Iraq or the US, I'm talking about a very basic example.

For how many iterations of the situation would you continue to try to negotiate?

-- Lew

Hypothetical:

Not hypothetical, but simply dead wrong. When did Iraq "knock down"
the US? The two countries (plus others) go a long way back. The
world is not about the "good" and the "bad" guys, I'm afraid. There
is a lot more grey out there than you are probably aware of.

On a personal level: I do believe (out of experience9 that violence
does not solve problems. "Eye for eye..." only creates more
violence; the intelligent and moral answer to violence is not
counter-violence. The stone age is over, got it?

Andi

--
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.

 

[Forrest41926]

That's why a lot of them are called fascists; they had to

put up a convincing facade. Look what happened to Mousilini (sp?)
when he lost the public favor...

The word "fascist" is rooted in the word "fascicle", a bundle or
cluster of stems, flowers, or leaves. The relationship is drawn
from the tightly bound, strict order of a properly constructed
fascicle. In like manner, fascism demands an extremely ordered,
restricted and authoritarian system.

There is absolutely no relationship to or root in the word "facade".

This is pretty interesting, and makes some sense. But what I've read, and what I was taught in my modern Euro history classes ( way back when! ) was that "fascist" and "fascism" come from putting up a "facade," or a false impression/front, like buildings on a movie set. This also makes plenty of sense. Whatever else Mousilini did, he made the trains run on time!