I'm so dumb... I just learned that shutter speed doesn't impact flash

[Luke Kaven]

Your suggestions are all sound (and hopefully instructive for the OP and others), though this kind of wisdom is more orthodox for people who shoot film, slides, or people who have to shoot and deliver JPGs out of camera.

I shoot pro basketball and need to deliver immediately after the game ends, hence the need to get it right first time. The event and portrait work allows a little more latitude.

That's a respectable skill, just what that job calls for.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

Sorry for being a little pedantic and obtuse.

I figured you'd have something instructive to contribute is all.

Enjoyed your concert shots, BTW.

Thank you!

 

[photonerdcom]

So I tried a bunch of new stuff for this test.

New thing #1 Light meeter wired to my radiopopper trigger (so wireless - cool huh)
New thing #2 White, black, gray target
New thing #3 New light stand (ok, big deal, but I was using a tripod)

New thing #4 Knockoff ezybox softboxes on the flash (getting rid of my 24x32 softbox)

New thing #5 Aperture 3 (I converted to mac recently), white balance from gray card, levels from the black and white points, did minor tweaking in aperture 3.

Very promising for a first test.

Without the light meeter, I wouldn't have been able to get to down to shooting as easily as I had. I wouldn't have known where to begin.

http://gallery.me.com/bershatsky#101315&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=0

 

[markmark]

you start at f8..if it is too dark, try 5.6 or lower...or jack up the iso..

now that you have figured out where to start with the light meter, put it aside and start shooting..

you don't need that anymore...

and keep in mind....if you measure the light the "correct" exposure may or may not be read on the meter..you have to look at the lcd..

which is were you were when you started..

 

[photonerdcom]

Again, the whole point is to get it right - right off the bat.

This was shot at ISO 200, f/3.2, at 1/60th of a second. Checked the LCD, yup looked good, then shot.

Had I altered the flashes, or moved them, I would need to compensate for that - again, the point is to spend less time fiddling, and more time shooting. I believe the light meeter will help me in that endeavor.

• N

you start at f8..if it is too dark, try 5.6 or lower...or jack up the iso..

now that you have figured out where to start with the light meter, put it aside and start shooting..

you don't need that anymore...

and keep in mind....if you measure the light the "correct" exposure may or may not be read on the meter..you have to look at the lcd..

which is were you were when you started..

 

[Luke Kaven]

I know you are used to looking at things OOC and without using UniWB, but for the kind of work you want to do, these suggest a RAW underexposed by 1-1.5 stops. If you are delivering JPEGs to your clients with no PP, they are just fine.

 

[markmark]

How do you know that it is right???

because the meter says so???

or

because it looks good??

 

[photonerdcom]

We're talking about getting a good starting point (it's a time saver).

 

[markmark]

what....15 sec??

have you noticed through you use of the light meter, you take a reading, you interpret the reading you set the camera, you take a test and you look at the result and tweak from there??...

also have you noticed that unless you have an inordinate amount of scenarios, the starting point readings are pretty much the same for the few similar situations you might encounter situations??

if you haven't noticed, I am a proponent of keeping it simple..

the more instrumentation you have, the more complex the situation needlessly becomes and the less time you spend "seeing" the photographic opportunities..

 

[Yamil R. Sued50621]

You just lacked knowledge of some details!!

I have more respect for you than with those that don't know jack and just because they have read some Photography theory and can spell some Photo terms, they think they know everything!! But in all reality, they know less than you do!! Knowing theory means nothing if you don't know how to apply it in practice!!

May I recommend books by joe McNally!!

1) The Moment it Clicks

2) Hot Shoe Diaries

Y

 

[Kabe Luna]

with your light meter, although learning to use histograms and your camera's reflected light meter further streamlines the process of balancing ambient light with flash. The lighting below was achieved without a single photo being taken to test it. How?

Equipment: Canon EOS 5D Mark II + EF 100/2, Minolta AutoMeter IV, Nikon SB900 fired through 18" x 18" softbox in Manfrotto stand powered by Quantum Turbo SC battery.

Process:

1) Scout suitable background based on anticipated subject position (has to shoot in a crowded corridor), desired aperture and degree of background defocus desired.

2) Position stand-in subject at subject position, compose image, then meter the background using the camera's spot metering, positioning the most important highlight at +2 1/3 EV. Set aperture and shutter speed based on handholdability and DOF requirements (shallow as possible, in this case).

3) Use Minolta meter to measure flash intensity at the subject position, adjusting power output to accommodate (if possible) the desired aperture.

4) Take pictures.

I had this all sorted out before the subject ever arrived. He showed up, I showed him where to stand, and started shooting.



We were done in about five minutes. I never had to fiddle with settings. Knowing what you're doing behind the camera is a great thing. It helps take the stress out of our jobs. I applaud your desire to become proficient with metering ambient and flash light so that you spend less time tweaking and more time thinking about composition or interacting with your subject.

This was shot at ISO 200, f/3.2, at 1/60th of a second. Checked the LCD, yup looked good, then shot.

Had I altered the flashes, or moved them, I would need to compensate for that - again, the point is to spend less time fiddling, and more time shooting. I believe the light meeter will help me in that endeavor.

• N

you start at f8..if it is too dark, try 5.6 or lower...or jack up the iso..

now that you have figured out where to start with the light meter, put it aside and start shooting..

you don't need that anymore...

and keep in mind....if you measure the light the "correct" exposure may or may not be read on the meter..you have to look at the lcd..

which is were you were when you started..

--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.garlandcary.com

 

[Kabe Luna]

Do you actually rely on your camera's LCD to judge your lighting? I find it's never quite accurate, always appearing darker than the exposure really is. Since I shoot RAW, I always just rely on RGB histograms to make sure I'm not clipping data on either end. I don't rely the appearance of the photo on the LCD at all. If you do, I'd like to know how you have gotten consistent results that way, please.

How do you know that it is right???

because the meter says so???

or

because it looks good??

--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.garlandcary.com

 

[markmark]

I absolutely rely on camera lcd to judge lighting..

if I am setting up portrait "studio" shoot on location, I shoot the key light by itself..... I shoot the fill by itself, I shoot the bkground light and the hair light to get them to the right levels..

And then combine all sources (including reflectors)

a

Looking at the LCD I can see if the "ratio" is what I want to see..(not what the meter shows)

also...

I always use a stand in before the first "paying" customer..

it could be the client contact or if I am alone, I will use the self timer and shoot self portraits..

And when the subject shows up, lights must be moved for face structure,( deeply set eyes, hair color (or lack thereof) and occasionally the whole thing must be flopped if the face structure demands left facing rather than right facing.)..

as far as other situations, where as you say, the lcd..."appearing darker than the exposure really is."

three things..

1) darker is a good thing (rather than the other way around)
2)use your histogram

3)learn to adapt...if you know that the lcd is dark, adjust accordingly (but check the histogram)

 

[photonerdcom]

Nice to know, I'm not crazy.

• N

 

[gmosc]

Avoiding taking a test shot is a not a badge of honor. Balancing a softbox with a background light is maybe not the most complex lighting setup, either.

I think if you had a single setup and ratio that always worked you risk the chance that your pictures would always have the same style and cookie cutter effect.

mark mark's example was a 4 light setup. I doubt that you would simply meter a multi light setup and accept the results. But of course, there are times you need to play it safe and professionally and get the in-camera shot to hand over the jpegs right away so of course you would do the most effective simpler setup.

Markmark's example is straight out of strobist. He also either used a stand in or himself as a model for the test shots. That is part of the home work for the shot and the location. it's worth being able to do that. I'm not sure if you are advocating to NEVER take a test shot... are you?

I suggest learn the heck out of the meter, then also try the strobist routine. There is a lot to learn from both methods. Personally I don't have a meter but would love to use some time to see if I could get a nice routine with one.

Guy Moscoso

with your light meter, although learning to use histograms and your camera's reflected light meter further streamlines the process of balancing ambient light with flash. The lighting below was achieved without a single photo being taken to test it. How?

Equipment: Canon EOS 5D Mark II + EF 100/2, Minolta AutoMeter IV, Nikon SB900 fired through 18" x 18" softbox in Manfrotto stand powered by Quantum Turbo SC battery.

Process:

1) Scout suitable background based on anticipated subject position (has to shoot in a crowded corridor), desired aperture and degree of background defocus desired.

2) Position stand-in subject at subject position, compose image, then meter the background using the camera's spot metering, positioning the most important highlight at +2 1/3 EV. Set aperture and shutter speed based on handholdability and DOF requirements (shallow as possible, in this case).

3) Use Minolta meter to measure flash intensity at the subject position, adjusting power output to accommodate (if possible) the desired aperture.

4) Take pictures.

I had this all sorted out before the subject ever arrived. He showed up, I showed him where to stand, and started shooting.



We were done in about five minutes. I never had to fiddle with settings. Knowing what you're doing behind the camera is a great thing. It helps take the stress out of our jobs. I applaud your desire to become proficient with metering ambient and flash light so that you spend less time tweaking and more time thinking about composition or interacting with your subject.

This was shot at ISO 200, f/3.2, at 1/60th of a second. Checked the LCD, yup looked good, then shot.

Had I altered the flashes, or moved them, I would need to compensate for that - again, the point is to spend less time fiddling, and more time shooting. I believe the light meeter will help me in that endeavor.

• N

you start at f8..if it is too dark, try 5.6 or lower...or jack up the iso..

now that you have figured out where to start with the light meter, put it aside and start shooting..

you don't need that anymore...

and keep in mind....if you measure the light the "correct" exposure may or may not be read on the meter..you have to look at the lcd..

which is were you were when you started..

--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.garlandcary.com

 

[Kabe Luna]

Avoiding taking a test shot is a not a badge of honor. Balancing a softbox with a background light is maybe not the most complex lighting setup, either.

I think if you had a single setup and ratio that always worked you risk the chance that your pictures would always have the same style and cookie cutter effect.

mark mark's example was a 4 light setup. I doubt that you would simply meter a multi light setup and accept the results. But of course, there are times you need to play it safe and professionally and get the in-camera shot to hand over the jpegs right away so of course you would do the most effective simpler setup.

Markmark's example is straight out of strobist. He also either used a stand in or himself as a model for the test shots. That is part of the home work for the shot and the location. it's worth being able to do that. I'm not sure if you are advocating to NEVER take a test shot... are you?

Of course not. I just think it is very worthwhile knowing how to use a combination of in-camera and reflected light meters to determine the proper settings to balance flash with ambient light. Even in multi-light situations, I can be more efficient than the multi-shot evaluative method.

I suggest learn the heck out of the meter, then also try the strobist routine. There is a lot to learn from both methods. Personally I don't have a meter but would love to use some time to see if I could get a nice routine with one.

Guy Moscoso

with your light meter, although learning to use histograms and your camera's reflected light meter further streamlines the process of balancing ambient light with flash. The lighting below was achieved without a single photo being taken to test it. How?

Equipment: Canon EOS 5D Mark II + EF 100/2, Minolta AutoMeter IV, Nikon SB900 fired through 18" x 18" softbox in Manfrotto stand powered by Quantum Turbo SC battery.

Process:

1) Scout suitable background based on anticipated subject position (has to shoot in a crowded corridor), desired aperture and degree of background defocus desired.

2) Position stand-in subject at subject position, compose image, then meter the background using the camera's spot metering, positioning the most important highlight at +2 1/3 EV. Set aperture and shutter speed based on handholdability and DOF requirements (shallow as possible, in this case).

3) Use Minolta meter to measure flash intensity at the subject position, adjusting power output to accommodate (if possible) the desired aperture.

4) Take pictures.

I had this all sorted out before the subject ever arrived. He showed up, I showed him where to stand, and started shooting.



We were done in about five minutes. I never had to fiddle with settings. Knowing what you're doing behind the camera is a great thing. It helps take the stress out of our jobs. I applaud your desire to become proficient with metering ambient and flash light so that you spend less time tweaking and more time thinking about composition or interacting with your subject.

This was shot at ISO 200, f/3.2, at 1/60th of a second. Checked the LCD, yup looked good, then shot.

Had I altered the flashes, or moved them, I would need to compensate for that - again, the point is to spend less time fiddling, and more time shooting. I believe the light meeter will help me in that endeavor.

• N

you start at f8..if it is too dark, try 5.6 or lower...or jack up the iso..

now that you have figured out where to start with the light meter, put it aside and start shooting..

you don't need that anymore...

and keep in mind....if you measure the light the "correct" exposure may or may not be read on the meter..you have to look at the lcd..

which is were you were when you started..

--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.garlandcary.com

--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.garlandcary.com

 

[gmosc]

Kabe,
I got a question. Do you use a reflective light metering on a hair light?

I haven't gotten into that and from what little experience I've had it's quite a huge difference based on reflectiveness of the hair color and even the reflectiveness of wigs (the last shot I just did). It was all done by eye (we had no light meters and no time to learn how to use one.)

Guy Moscoso

 

[markmark]

quality of the light makes a huge difference (hard vs soft)

also measuring light , like a hair light or a skim (kicker) light just doesn't work...

if you have f8 worth of light on the face, and f8 worth of light as kicker, the kicker will be WAY overexposed...it is like seeing you light source in a mirror....

an excellent argument for previewing your images in the LCD..

 

[eNo]

When you modify shutter speed and aperture to an equivalent exposure, you must compensate for the aperture change with added or reduced flash power. If the aperture went up by 1 stop (wider), flash power must go down by 1 stop. And if the aperture went down by 1 stop (narrower), flash power must go up by 1 stop. IOW, there's an inverse relationship between aperture and flash power, even when the exposure remains equivalent .

If all that is confusing, check out this link:

http://esfotoclix.com/blog1/?p=1260
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's easy to argue about equipment and technique, but hard to argue with a good photograph -- and more difficult to capture one .



Gallery and blog: http://esfotoclix.com
Special selections: http://esfotoclix.com/store
Wedding & Portrait: http://esfotoclix.com/wedevent
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

 

[eNo]

Well, shutter speed is important to consider when ambient light is present.

Let's say you're shooting a wedding reception, and the DJ has multi-color stage lights hitting the dance floor. You're photographing a couple dancing together (subject). If your flash is set on TTL, then the subject should be properly exposed whether the camera shutter is set to 1/60 or 1/125. However, you'll pick up more of the ambient stage lights hitting the couple at 1/60. It will brighten up the background and add color and depth to the image.

Shutter speed is still important when photographing moving objects with flash.

Not necessarily. A flash is about 1/1000s, so if it is providing most of the light on the subject you can take the shot at 1/10s but it will be as if you had taken it at 1/1000th.

True, but if you consider that for the situation he's talking about (wedding dance floor), 1/10sec will pick up plenty of ambient light, the flash will in fact not completely freeze the subject motion. I like to use Rear shutter sync for those situations, and so long as the flash is the strongest light source on the subject, you get a fairly reasonable freeze effect, even if some motion streaking from ambient light will also be present.

Actually, the shutter speed does NOT matter for the subject which is exposed with flash.

Unless, of course, you want a little ambient light to mix in with your flash for a more natural look. Look at these two shots, flash power=1/4, aperture = f/8. The only thing that changes is shutter speed, from 1/3 sec in the first to 1/100 sec in the 2nd. Notice how the left side of the subject becomes darker? The shorter shutter speed reduces the ambient light contribution, not just in the background, but also on the subject , and thus modifies total light on-subject. Since the point is how well the subject is lit & exposed, I suggest that when using flash in environments other than total darkness we should account for the "total light" equation. It's often simpler to focus on the flash as the predominant light, but that isn't always optimum when trying to avoid the over-flashed look.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's easy to argue about equipment and technique, but hard to argue with a good photograph -- and more difficult to capture one .



Gallery and blog: http://esfotoclix.com
Special selections: http://esfotoclix.com/store
Wedding & Portrait: http://esfotoclix.com/wedevent
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

 

[eNo]

it impacts ambient light, which is important to the appearance of the overall
flashed image

In what way exactly?

Check out this example. Then try it out for yourself. None of this made sense to me until I started playing with flash.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's easy to argue about equipment and technique, but hard to argue with a good photograph -- and more difficult to capture one .



Gallery and blog: http://esfotoclix.com
Special selections: http://esfotoclix.com/store
Wedding & Portrait: http://esfotoclix.com/wedevent
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03