I have never shopped at any of those companies so I don't know. I'm talking stores that are local to me and most chain stores. Still, if we don't like how a store opperates, we have every right not to purchase from them. I've heard a number of times on these forums of people purchasing new equipment from B&H and recieving it in used condition. I had thought it was because of the Christmas rush, but now that doesn't appear to be the cause.
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George Smith80814
Leading Member
Me too, a big user of B&H, never a problem, always up and up. I must have spent $40K with them or more over the past ten years. I do sometimes buy from CameraWorld of Oregon and occasionally from Delta, but that is usually based on price or availability.
--GSmith
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
They may very well offer these as "open box" specials at their retail outlets. About that I'm not sure -- which is one of the reasons I asked. I can certainly say I've never seen any "open box specials" offered on their websites.
Of course you don't have to purchase from them. Nobody's forcing you to.
I can only recall ONE person saying he received merchandise in obviously used condition. Lee doesn't describe the condition of whatever he ordered here. He describes the condition of the box.
What you've got to bear in mind is the large volume of business B&H does, and all the people (like myself) who have had no problems with them at all.
Not to mention the ones who complain when something goes wrong, and get satisfactory results. I feel quite confident there are a number of people here who have had great results from B&H, and don't post about it simply because they want to stay out of a "flame war".
As to why Lee seems to be having so many problems with B&H, and apparently can't get them resolved to his satisfaction, I can't say. But there are usually at least two sides to every situation.
Of course you don't have to purchase from them. Nobody's forcing you to.
I can only recall ONE person saying he received merchandise in obviously used condition. Lee doesn't describe the condition of whatever he ordered here. He describes the condition of the box.
What you've got to bear in mind is the large volume of business B&H does, and all the people (like myself) who have had no problems with them at all.
Not to mention the ones who complain when something goes wrong, and get satisfactory results. I feel quite confident there are a number of people here who have had great results from B&H, and don't post about it simply because they want to stay out of a "flame war".
As to why Lee seems to be having so many problems with B&H, and apparently can't get them resolved to his satisfaction, I can't say. But there are usually at least two sides to every situation.
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
jcwphoto
Leading Member
B&H's website, on the front page, has two specials - one for brand new merchandise, one for open box.
And they list quite a few demo items, too, in their used equipment section.
--jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net
L
Lee Rothman
Guest
OK David, I guess inquiring minds want to know. Over a week ago I received a Gitzo G1588 Carbon Fiber Monopod and a Ideesign Qtop Quick Release. The quick release box was in literally "pieces" that had been poorly taped together. The quick release unit had a tiny nick on the lower corner. All I could do is shake my head in amazement as a week earlier I got a Qtop from Adorama that was absolutely perfect and unopened from Germany. Why I don't seem to be able to get merchandise that hasn't gone through the war from B&H is quite a mystery indeed. Then today I ordered a small photo tent that assembles in several pieces from formed translucent plastic and it zips together. The box had been "Ripped" not nicely opened at the factory sealed end and then poorly retaped back. The instructions were cramed and wrinkled in the side of the box. The bags that held each piece of the panels were also ripped in various places. Now I have to say.........This is UNACCEPTABLE merchandising. There were 5 other similar instances from November till now. And NOW is the END of it for me and them.....If you have been lucky Mazel Tov!
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
I'd seen the demo section before, but never the open box. (Must be that new monitor running at 1280x1024 -- LOL).
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Larry H. Smith
Veteran Member
Henry, There is another "B&H dissatisfaction" thread on DPR at this link: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=2191776
I have appreciated your responses on such topics before, but the threads always seem to roll-on for quite awhile before someone brings them to your attention.
Thus this note.
I am an unconcerned-but-not-disinterested party, because I had heretofore intended to shop at B&H, when I decide to take-the-plunge to the tune of $20-30,000 after PMA etc.
I have to admit I am being influenced by these threads, ...and I can only suppose I represent others silently developing the same doubts.
My question has become; "Has B&H's excellent reputation brought them so-much business that they no longer care-or-have-time-to concern themselves with issues that TO THE CUSTOMER (or potential customer) seem important.
This issue of "trust" re. the condition/history of items purchased as "new" is not a small one, IMHO. The inspection/repackaging (or LACK OF either) described in the current thread will almost certainly cost B&H some customers, if not answered effectively.
Specifically, ...what is the result of a customer's request for absolutely-unopened factory packaging? (impossible?) (extra cost?) (laughter, while stuffing any-old-thing in the box?)
(And even the HINT of a customer being "blacklisted" doesn't serve B&H's interest, ...I hope the speculation about that, on the current thread, is unwarranted!)
I am posting this as an open letter to you on DPR, so that others who may be wondering may hear your response. (The fact that this has arisen AGAIN, so soon after the last rash of threads, seems to me to represent another tip of an iceberg. I for one would like a better understanding of the real size of the problem. Your reassuring answers to previous posts read-well, but how much have they to-do with what actually goes-on in the shipping dept. at B&H?
Are they simply too-busy to sweat what to them must seem like the "small stuff"?
In any case, I am leaning heavily towards a walk-in purchase,...whereas I previously was B&H oriented. And B&H is certainly beyond my "walking" distance.
Thanks for any response,
Larry
I have appreciated your responses on such topics before, but the threads always seem to roll-on for quite awhile before someone brings them to your attention.
Thus this note.
I am an unconcerned-but-not-disinterested party, because I had heretofore intended to shop at B&H, when I decide to take-the-plunge to the tune of $20-30,000 after PMA etc.
I have to admit I am being influenced by these threads, ...and I can only suppose I represent others silently developing the same doubts.
My question has become; "Has B&H's excellent reputation brought them so-much business that they no longer care-or-have-time-to concern themselves with issues that TO THE CUSTOMER (or potential customer) seem important.
This issue of "trust" re. the condition/history of items purchased as "new" is not a small one, IMHO. The inspection/repackaging (or LACK OF either) described in the current thread will almost certainly cost B&H some customers, if not answered effectively.
Specifically, ...what is the result of a customer's request for absolutely-unopened factory packaging? (impossible?) (extra cost?) (laughter, while stuffing any-old-thing in the box?)
(And even the HINT of a customer being "blacklisted" doesn't serve B&H's interest, ...I hope the speculation about that, on the current thread, is unwarranted!)
I am posting this as an open letter to you on DPR, so that others who may be wondering may hear your response. (The fact that this has arisen AGAIN, so soon after the last rash of threads, seems to me to represent another tip of an iceberg. I for one would like a better understanding of the real size of the problem. Your reassuring answers to previous posts read-well, but how much have they to-do with what actually goes-on in the shipping dept. at B&H?
Are they simply too-busy to sweat what to them must seem like the "small stuff"?
In any case, I am leaning heavily towards a walk-in purchase,...whereas I previously was B&H oriented. And B&H is certainly beyond my "walking" distance.
Thanks for any response,
Larry
Andrew Grant27981
Senior Member
I usually buy from B&H unless their price is higher than other reputable vendors (I ordered a 16-35 from Canoga). I have never had a problem. Since I live close to NYC in Connecticut, the items always arrive quickly and if I had a problem I could always visit them at their store. If I buy grey, it is always from B&H for that reason.
Mike Flaherty
Senior Member
Hi, Lee. I only purchased a couple minor things from B&H and both were in unopened pristine condition. Had they been otherwise, I'd have shipped them back - regardless of the actual product condition. I won't accept anything less than new and unopened. Sorry, but that's me and, if I don't get that, I don't deal with that outfit - period. Based on your experiences and others I've read about over the past couple of months, I will not be doing business with B&H ever again. Thanks for the heads-up.
Mike Flaherty
Mike Flaherty
--Mike Flaherty http://imageevent.com/mflaherty/mikesgallery
Rather than whine in this forum, I would suggest that you compile a list of like-minded individuals (have people email you) and send it off to the president of the company. Make mention that you are publicizing your experience in this and other forums. I am sure your response will come in kind. If they care so little about their customers, B&H deserves to lose (I say this eventhough my experience for the last 11 years has been great.)
Doug Walker
Senior Member
Man, you must have the world's worst luck at B&H. They must have a bin with your name on it where they put all the opened returns with torn boxes LOL.
Seriously though, I've purchased thousands of dollars worth of gear from them over the last year and half without one single problem. They are a good place for things like paper, ink, archival storage for prints, power packs for my flash units, etc., etc. They have stuff nobody else carries. That's a huge benefit for me. Recently I purchased a large amount of ink and paper from them and saved about $100 over what the same order would have cost at the local CompUsa and that doesn't include the tax CompUsa would have added on.
Their web site is the first place I go when I need to research a new purchase. No other companies web site is a complete as B&H's.
For now I'll continue placing orders with B&H.
Seriously though, I've purchased thousands of dollars worth of gear from them over the last year and half without one single problem. They are a good place for things like paper, ink, archival storage for prints, power packs for my flash units, etc., etc. They have stuff nobody else carries. That's a huge benefit for me. Recently I purchased a large amount of ink and paper from them and saved about $100 over what the same order would have cost at the local CompUsa and that doesn't include the tax CompUsa would have added on.
Their web site is the first place I go when I need to research a new purchase. No other companies web site is a complete as B&H's.
For now I'll continue placing orders with B&H.
Michael Porter
Leading Member
I have used B&H for over 15 years. I have bought over 40k worth of photo and video equpment. I can't count the number of individual orders. Over a hundred for sure. I've never had one problem. They have kept their promises, shipped on time, and everything has been in perfect condition. This includes half a dozen orders in the last two months.
All companies make mistakes. The question is how do they handle them? Most of the posts that I recall on this forum about problems, it turned out that B&H took the item back and refunded the money.
All companies make mistakes. The question is how do they handle them? Most of the posts that I recall on this forum about problems, it turned out that B&H took the item back and refunded the money.
Walt60320
Leading Member
Mike
It's hard for me to believe, even though you have received items in unopened pristine condition (by your own admission), and I assume never had any other problems, that you will not be doing business with B&H ever again based on Lee's complaint. I'm not saying Lee doesn't have a valid complaint. He may have, but are you that easily led? I respect Lee's view on this even though out of around 10 items I've purchased from B&H, there has never been a problem. Even on a used lens I purchased two weeks ago. The lens looks, works and was packaged like new. You wouldn't know the difference except for the tape sealing the box that said used. This is the one thing I can't agree with Lee on. Complaining about B&H or any other company publicly will only cause others to wrongly judge the company without any valid reason other that someone elses views. Lee is not the only person to complain about B&H but I can count the people that feel the same way on one hand. It seems out of all the people in this forum that buy from B&H, the greastest majority is happy with the company. With that many people not having any problems, I would hate to think that they are singling out Lee to send this opened stuff to. Yes, Lee hasn't hid the fact that he is very picky about the merchandise he buys and he very well should be, but it's obvious that the problem seems more centered on him and not a general problem with all customers. I agree that B&H should comment on this if they really care. This kind of talk can really get out of hand. Any of you in the forum (Pro Photographers) etc., that have a business of your own, should think about how this could happen to your business if one unhappy customer put billboards up all over town trashing your business. It's a good thing in a forum like this for us to watch out for each other but lets not get out of control. I would think differently if many of you posted that you are having the same problems. I might even stop buying from them before it happend to me (which seems like what Mike is trying to say) but I don't see that in this case. I'll keep buying from them and when or if I ever get burned, then I may be posting a "me too" depending on how they handle my complaint. Okay, I've went on long enough. These were just my feeling so try to be kind.
Walt
It's hard for me to believe, even though you have received items in unopened pristine condition (by your own admission), and I assume never had any other problems, that you will not be doing business with B&H ever again based on Lee's complaint. I'm not saying Lee doesn't have a valid complaint. He may have, but are you that easily led? I respect Lee's view on this even though out of around 10 items I've purchased from B&H, there has never been a problem. Even on a used lens I purchased two weeks ago. The lens looks, works and was packaged like new. You wouldn't know the difference except for the tape sealing the box that said used. This is the one thing I can't agree with Lee on. Complaining about B&H or any other company publicly will only cause others to wrongly judge the company without any valid reason other that someone elses views. Lee is not the only person to complain about B&H but I can count the people that feel the same way on one hand. It seems out of all the people in this forum that buy from B&H, the greastest majority is happy with the company. With that many people not having any problems, I would hate to think that they are singling out Lee to send this opened stuff to. Yes, Lee hasn't hid the fact that he is very picky about the merchandise he buys and he very well should be, but it's obvious that the problem seems more centered on him and not a general problem with all customers. I agree that B&H should comment on this if they really care. This kind of talk can really get out of hand. Any of you in the forum (Pro Photographers) etc., that have a business of your own, should think about how this could happen to your business if one unhappy customer put billboards up all over town trashing your business. It's a good thing in a forum like this for us to watch out for each other but lets not get out of control. I would think differently if many of you posted that you are having the same problems. I might even stop buying from them before it happend to me (which seems like what Mike is trying to say) but I don't see that in this case. I'll keep buying from them and when or if I ever get burned, then I may be posting a "me too" depending on how they handle my complaint. Okay, I've went on long enough. These were just my feeling so try to be kind.
Walt
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
[email protected]
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Michael Martin
Senior Member
You live in Salt Lake City so why don't you buy local, go to Pictureline.
I got my EOS 1D and Epson 2000p from them. They are fantastic.
I live 160 miles from NYC and I try to avoid the NYC dealers. Most of them are obnoxious.
I bought a sekonic 608 lightmeter from them and it did look as though it had been opened in the store. The plastic had a little scratch on it. But I think this is a problem that all the stores have.
This is a problem that happens everywhere, so it's not just localized to B&H. Cal's Camera in California, does the same thing! At least the people at B&H return your calls, people at Cal's didn't even call me or write to me after I complained to them!
This is a problem that happens everywhere, so it's not just localized to B&H. Cal's Camera in California, does the same thing! At least the people at B&H return your calls, people at Cal's didn't even call me or write to me after I complained to them!
Scott66322
Well-known member
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If DeltaInternational.com has some great deals on great market hardware, I wish someone would tell me just exactly is the 'great deal'. Their prices look just as high as any advertised on the internet.
Mike,
I think you are jumping the gun too quickly. B&H is the best large photo store I have ever dealt with. Seven years ago, I bought a whole darkroom from them, even the enlarger mail order...no problems at all. I just ordered all my Canon lenses and accessories from them, my old tripod is from them, almost everything...D30 came from Beach because they had a much cheaper deal (Beach Camera forgot to put the grip in the package and it was a whole ordeal), but I would have ordered from B&H just for the security that it is a quality company. All my old Nikon stuff is from B&H.
My .02
-Jamil
I think you are jumping the gun too quickly. B&H is the best large photo store I have ever dealt with. Seven years ago, I bought a whole darkroom from them, even the enlarger mail order...no problems at all. I just ordered all my Canon lenses and accessories from them, my old tripod is from them, almost everything...D30 came from Beach because they had a much cheaper deal (Beach Camera forgot to put the grip in the package and it was a whole ordeal), but I would have ordered from B&H just for the security that it is a quality company. All my old Nikon stuff is from B&H.
My .02
-Jamil
Scott Bourne
Active member
Is Lee Rothman a Delta International shill? I have always been curious to know whether or not he works for them or in fact is Delta International. After reading his constant posts attacking B&H (and everything else) I no longer wonder.
For those who might be influenced by Lee; search all of his posts here and you will see the pattern. He is great at posting flame bait and attacking anyone who claims Delta Internation isn't the greatest camera store on earth.
I'd take what he says with a grain of salt but that would be giving him too much credit.
B&H is a fine camera store and one that I have used and will continue to use with no reservations. As a pro, I make my living with this stuff and there is no way I would be doing business with them if they were the terrible place that Lee would have us believe. Nor would they have managed to stay in business all these years.
Scott Bourne
For those who might be influenced by Lee; search all of his posts here and you will see the pattern. He is great at posting flame bait and attacking anyone who claims Delta Internation isn't the greatest camera store on earth.
I'd take what he says with a grain of salt but that would be giving him too much credit.
B&H is a fine camera store and one that I have used and will continue to use with no reservations. As a pro, I make my living with this stuff and there is no way I would be doing business with them if they were the terrible place that Lee would have us believe. Nor would they have managed to stay in business all these years.
Scott Bourne
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
Delta's gray market prices USED to be the lowest around. I think other stores have lower their prices, and Delta has raised their prices. There's not much difference anymore in prices.
Not having bought anything from Delta, I can't comment on their service. However, since the service I've received so far from B&H, CameraWorld, BestPriceAudiovideo has been excellent, they'd be hard-pressed to beat them in my book.
On the other hand, I've not really had to use their customer service so far.
Not having bought anything from Delta, I can't comment on their service. However, since the service I've received so far from B&H, CameraWorld, BestPriceAudiovideo has been excellent, they'd be hard-pressed to beat them in my book.
On the other hand, I've not really had to use their customer service so far.
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
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