"If I only had the S3 sensor in a D200 body" !!

[Johnnymg2]

Bernie

I doubt there will ever be a 'do all' camera body!

I suggest you adopt the 'every camera has its day' approach and just get a couple of different bodies:

For Nikon glass users:
small-lightweight cheepie for travel/snaps: D50/D80, etc.
high DR camera: S3/S5
fast action camera: D2XS, D2H3(?), etc.

I HIGHLY doubt that Nikon or Canon will build a 14 bit camera anytime in our lifetime................ hahaha.............. so we're doomed to using Fuji's crippled cameras for that type of pic.

Regards
JohnG

--
Fuji S3, Nikon D50 + a lot of Nikon glass.

 

[Ulli Pietsch]

Bernie,

For Fujifilm to stop doing the "useless" up interpolation, they'd have to change the layout of their photosites from their diagonal pattern to the same square pattern that everyne else uses. I couldn't say if the diagonal pattern actually has a benefit.

--
Ulli Pietsch

 

[Radu Grozescu]

How do you know how many channels the S5 sensor will have? It's
not exactly the same sensor, after all.

Actually I do not know anything about the upcoming S5 sensor, except what it is in the Fuji literature

But the 1.5 fps in wide DR might get us a clue

If it was a multi channel sensor the fps would be at least 3 in wide DR and maybe 5fps in standard DR.

Also, wasn't this problem with the D200 fixed via firmware? I'm
coming from the Canon side, so I don't know.

Since you are interested in the S5 and not in the D200 I think there is no point in wasting your time on this matter

--
Radu Grozescu

http://www.RaduGrozescu.com
Corporate & Editorial Photography

 

[Radu Grozescu]

10+10 is the least I would want to have. It is a minimum now.

That would be great indeed.

The diagonal Fuji array will offer the detail rendering of a 14-15MP camera, probably a bit better than the D2x, but the wide DR RAW files would be about 42 MB each, about 95 RAFs should fit nicely on a 4 GB card

Even with an original Nikon CF interface, writing over 40MB to a card for every image will be quite a task. Meantime, a compressed NEF from a D200 is a tad under 10MB, so about 100 images fit on a 1GB card.

--
Radu Grozescu

http://www.RaduGrozescu.com
Corporate & Editorial Photography

 

[Greg Governale]

Image Ouality is what is important to me. I found the S2 files to be better than files from the other cameras when I bought one. The S3 does have slightly more DR than the S2. If the S5 is even slightly better in DR than the S3 and in a much more fuctional body I also don't see much to complain about.

The quality of the file is important. Images from most of the Canon cameras look digital to my eye, some people call it artificial, fake or plastic like. There is something about files from the Fuji cameras that I really like. They have a certain feel or quality to them that I don't see from most other digital cameras. If the frame rate and the buffer are close to what the D200 can do, and the price is reasonable, the S5 will probably find a home in my bag.

Greg Governale
S2, S3, D200

 

[Sarajean]

you dont know what Nikon or Canon will release before then.

 

[Bernie Ess]

If the frame
rate and the buffer are close to what the D200 can do,

Buffer I dont know, but frame rate in RAW will be 1,5fps - slow as a snail still... For 11 RAWs in a row. Much slower than d200.

The problem/ bottleneck is the huge RAW size. They whould have found a way to deliver superior DR without doubling the pixel count. Like 6+3MP. I read something like that months ago, and it seems logical... Smaller file sizes.

Bernie

 

[R Johns]

Not only do I want a Microwave oven that cooks twice as much ham as the next best oven, but I want it to cook it in half the time, as well.

Anything else, is just unacceptable!!!

1.5 fps is a pretty bad joke! What is Fuji thinking????

FWIW, I'm OK with the 6x6 sensor res but the lack of speed is not
acceptable. Shame on you Fuji!

Fool me once shame on you .......... fool me twice......

Regards
JohnG

--Russ



Greater is He that is within me, than he who is in this world...

 

[David Grabowski]

As I build on the DX lens supply I'll think even less about it. All I ever wanted was something like the D200 body, not so much RAW speed since I mostly shoot jpegs anyway, but overall functionality and dependability. The S3 files are already large enough if not too large to use full time for what I do, so that's a non issue with my line of work.With the S2 I shoot mostly at 6 MP.

I skipped the s3 thinking the body wasn't enough of an upgrade with the N80 base still there, now with the D200 base I'll wait for performance tests and actual in hands use reports from the field. I've held off my D200 purchase idea with both the D80 and S5 coming along.

I guess we all have our own idea of what ideal cameras might be but it's sounding like you Bernie might be better off looking at a Canon Pro camera or moving to a 645 digital back system. It's already in place, probably more to come and plenty of support.

David

I'm not saying anything about the S5. All I'm saying is that Canon
almost nothing to improve the 20D and they apparently cashed in.

Well, you always have also those who will "upgrade" for just a new
name of the camera. Even if the 30d were 10MP this would be a
minor update, not worth upgrading.

The thing is that people have become used to buy a new camera
every year almost, which of course is insane...

I am actually waiting for a kind of definitive camera which doesn't
leave important wishes. So far all cameras are more or less
compromises, thats why people jump on every minor upddate, because
all the time something is missing.

For me that camera would be: A FF camera, with 12-16MP, high DR,
low noise and good color would be enough for several years. Like a
S6 pro.

But seeing what they have come up with after 3 years really
completely made me loose my confidence in them. I doubt Fuji will
ever deliver that "real thing". Their whole line-up seems like a
moment- to moment bricolage with a few strong points, and a lot of
compromises. No clear overall strategy.

I actually suppose that in the end Canon or even Nikon are more
likely to offer an upgraded sensor technology because competition
will force them to do so, and they are in full control of their own
lens mount, bodies and sensors (Canon, that is...), whereas Fuji is
always depending on Nikon. In the long run this will pull them in a
less and less competitive position.

regards, Bernie

--
David

 

[Joe Melillo]

I wonder if the size of the raw files, and the difficulty of processing them efficiently, is the real reason Fuji has not increased resolution in the S5.

If the frame
rate and the buffer are close to what the D200 can do,

Buffer I dont know, but frame rate in RAW will be 1,5fps - slow as
a snail still... For 11 RAWs in a row. Much slower than d200.

The problem/ bottleneck is the huge RAW size. They whould have
found a way to deliver superior DR without doubling the pixel
count. Like 6+3MP. I read something like that months ago, and it
seems logical... Smaller file sizes.

Bernie

--
Joe Melillo
http://www.pbase.com/jmelillo/root

 

[Fred Phillips]

Bernie

In my opinion the S5 will NEVER cost 1600 or thereabouts at the time of its introduction. Fuji will try to convince new customers who walk into camera stores (not the people on this forum) that they have produced something really wonderful and leading edge. I am sure they will initially ask $2500 or more before taxes. I am sure that in Canada, where I am, it will cost well over Canadian $3,000. I would love to be proven wrong. Just my opinion based on all their previous pricing strategies.

Fred

 

[Anthony32599]

Fujifilm could have instituted a "high-speed crop" mode, such that a photographer could choose to shoot a smaller megapixel range while still allowing the camera to have more megapixels.

Anthony

I wonder if the size of the raw files, and the difficulty of
processing them efficiently, is the real reason Fuji has not
increased resolution in the S5.

 

[JCDoss]

Fujifilm could have instituted a "high-speed crop" mode, such that
a photographer could choose to shoot a smaller megapixel range
while still allowing the camera to have more megapixels.

I don't know why the smaller pixels would be necessary for a 6MP image in normal DR mode. Couldn't they be dumped in order to save bandwidth?

--
JCDoss

 

[Radu Grozescu]

I don't know why the smaller pixels would be necessary for a 6MP
image in normal DR mode. Couldn't they be dumped in order to save
bandwidth?

They are not.

So in standard DR, both the Fuji S3 and Fuji S5 are about twice as fast as in wide DR and the RAFs are two times smaller. Also the buffer is doubled in standard DR.

--
Radu Grozescu

http://www.RaduGrozescu.com
Corporate & Editorial Photography

 

[Greg Governale]

As a pro, with 20 years of experence shooting slide film I know how important it is to get the exposure right in camera. Raw files give a little more room for the photographer who works in changing or difficult lighting. Or for the photographer who has a hard time understanding that the in camera meters can be fooled.

I very seldom shoot RAW, I get the exposure right in camera, I bracket often.The same way I did when shooting slide film. The highest quality jpeg works well for me. I shoot wildlife and nature. All outdoors.

At a recent workshop I was teaching on wide format printing, I brought 6 large prints for members of a camera club to look at as close as they wanted. 20x30 in. and 24x36 in. Not one person was able to tell which print came from a raw file and which prints were made from the jpeg files. I had brought with me 3 of each.

The D200 body handles much better than the S2 or S3, The S5 is a D200 with a fuji sensor. Since very few of my images are printed larger than 24x36 I feel the S5 will work quite well for my needs.

My very large prints are made by shooting 4-12 vertical images and stitching them together. I have made prints 20 in. by 80 in. that look very
nice.

The price point for the S5 is very important. More mp would have been nice, but more DR and even less noise at high ISO sounds pretty nice as well.

Greg Governale
S2, S3, D200

 

[R Johns]

The price point for the S5 is very important. More mp would have
been nice, but more DR and even less noise at high ISO sounds
pretty nice as well.

Greg Governale
S2, S3, D200

--Russ



Greater is He that is within me, than he who is in this world...

 

[greg77]

I wonder if the size of the raw files, and the difficulty of
processing them efficiently, is the real reason Fuji has not
increased resolution in the S5.

My guess it that it is a significant challenge to scale the 2 photodiode/pixel sensor upwards for the same size layout (dimensions).

--
Greg
http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?include=all&user_id=301372
http://www.pbase.com/coraltown/root