IBIS VS NON IBIS

markam04

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So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
 
I'm sure they didn't have the tech yet. IBIS is awesome and every camera can benefit from one.

I say this as an X-T3 owner. I really wish this camera had IBIS, it's the only thing missing. Maybe the X-H2 is in my future.
 
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I'm sure they didn't have the tech yet. IBIS is awesome and every camera can benefit from one.

I say this as an X-T3 owner. I really wish this camera had IBIS, it's the only thing missing. Maybe the X-H2 is in my future.
I'm guessing the OP is asking something like, can a non-IBIS Fuji with the same sensor produce a sharper image on a tri-pod than an IBIS Fuji can handheld? Are there any artifacts from using IBIS compared to a non-IBIS Fuji on a tripod?

Sal
 
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I'm sure they didn't have the tech yet. IBIS is awesome and every camera can benefit from one.

I say this as an X-T3 owner. I really wish this camera had IBIS, it's the only thing missing. Maybe the X-H2 is in my future.
I'm guessing the OP is asking something like, can a non-IBIS Fuji with the same sensor produce a sharper image on a tri-pod than an IBIS Fuji can handheld? Are there any artifacts from using IBIS compared to a non-IBIS Fuji on a tripod?

Sal
I agree Sal and from my research the answer is yes, in a strict technical sense, any image stabilization system whether lens or camera based can introduce artifacts in an image. The more sophisticated the stabilization (3 vs 5 axis) the more potential for issues.

This is all from a purist's point of view but I did read a post from Digilloyd where he found unusual smeared areas in an image with his FF Sony using IBIS that he's never seen with IBIS disabled. It's interesting to read through the post as well as the comments.

Bob

--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
 
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On a 26mp sensor? I would very very highly doubt that. Nikon has a 45MP camera with IBIS. Rumors are saying Canon might release a 100MP EOS R with IBIS.

This is all purist talk. IBIS has basically no downsides. I hope Fuji get around to making a more compact system so they can put it into their X-T series.

I've used IBIS enabled cameras for years, and never even had to turn them off on tripods. Still getting razor sharp shots at 100% crops.
 
On a 26mp sensor? I would very very highly doubt that. Nikon has a 45MP camera with IBIS. Rumors are saying Canon might release a 100MP EOS R with IBIS.

This is all purist talk. IBIS has basically no downsides. I hope Fuji get around to making a more compact system so they can put it into their X-T series.

I've used IBIS enabled cameras for years, and never even had to turn them off on tripods. Still getting razor sharp shots at 100% crops.
And hasn’t Fujifilm actually announced IBIS on their even larger sensor for the GFX-100S?

--
Chris
Selected photos at https://500px.com/ceedave
A couple of Fuji cameras and assorted X-mount and adapted primes
 
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So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Hmm, it gives

- people who think IBIS is a must have

- people who think IBIS is nice to have

- people who think they do not need IBIS

- cameras that have IBIS

- cameras that do not have IBIS

and with all these different opinions and possibilities the most likely outcome from such a question is another “philosophical” war about such a technical feature. Mankind is quite an interesting species...!

Herbert
 
So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Hmm, it gives

- people who think IBIS is a must have

- people who think IBIS is nice to have

- people who think they do not need IBIS

- cameras that have IBIS

- cameras that do not have IBIS

and with all these different opinions and possibilities the most likely outcome from such a question is another “philosophical” war about such a technical feature. Mankind is quite an interesting species...!

Herbert
So what is wrong with making some cameras with it, and some without, so that everyone is happy?
 
So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Hmm, it gives

- people who think IBIS is a must have

- people who think IBIS is nice to have

- people who think they do not need IBIS

- cameras that have IBIS

- cameras that do not have IBIS

and with all these different opinions and possibilities the most likely outcome from such a question is another “philosophical” war about such a technical feature. Mankind is quite an interesting species...!

Herbert
So what is wrong with making some cameras with it, and some without, so that everyone is happy?
Because there's no reason to NOT have IBIS these days. Unless it's an extreme cost cutting thing, but on a premium camera like the X-T line, it's a must have.

Is anyone here really thinking "oh man, I just wish this photo was bit blurrier", or "man, my viewfinder is too steady, I wish it would bounce all over the place"?

Well, in that case, turn IBIS off. :)
 
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I'm sure they didn't have the tech yet. IBIS is awesome and every camera can benefit from one.

I say this as an X-T3 owner. I really wish this camera had IBIS, it's the only thing missing. Maybe the X-H2 is in my future.
I'm guessing the OP is asking something like, can a non-IBIS Fuji with the same sensor produce a sharper image on a tri-pod than an IBIS Fuji can handheld? Are there any artifacts from using IBIS compared to a non-IBIS Fuji on a tripod?

Sal
I agree Sal and from my research the answer is yes, in a strict technical sense, any image stabilization system whether lens or camera based can introduce artifacts in an image. The more sophisticated the stabilization (3 vs 5 axis) the more potential for issues.

This is all from a purist's point of view but I did read a post from Digilloyd where he found unusual smeared areas in an image with his FF Sony using IBIS that he's never seen with IBIS disabled. It's interesting to read through the post as well as the comments.

Bob
I've been comparing my X-T2 & X-H1 (IBIS disabled) recently for long-exposure photography. Both cameras on a tripod, with same lens, 60 second exposures. So far, the X-H1 does not suffer from a lack of sharpness relative to the X-T2. While more testing is called for, so far it looks to me that Fuji is doing a good job with regard to immobilizing the sensor with IBIS disabled. At least - when on a tripod, anyway.

Of course, that's much different than saying IBIS can create IQ problems while enabled, but I have heard folks wonder if the sensor is properly stable when IBIS is disabled.

--
http://georgehudetzphotography.smugmug.com/
My Flikr stream: http://flic.kr/ps/Ay8ka
 
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So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Hmm, it gives

- people who think IBIS is a must have

- people who think IBIS is nice to have

- people who think they do not need IBIS

- cameras that have IBIS

- cameras that do not have IBIS

and with all these different opinions and possibilities the most likely outcome from such a question is another “philosophical” war about such a technical feature. Mankind is quite an interesting species...!

Herbert
So what is wrong with making some cameras with it, and some without, so that everyone is happy?
Because there's no reason to NOT have IBIS these days. Unless it's an extreme cost cutting thing, but on a premium camera like the X-T line, it's a must have.

Is anyone here really thinking "oh man, I just wish this photo was bit blurrier", or "man, my viewfinder is too steady, I wish it would bounce all over the place"?

Well, in that case, turn IBIS off. :)
So you are saying I can't have what I want?
 
So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Sure a camera without image stabilization of any sorts, not just IBIS, can produces sharper images. Any control system has an inherent residual noise. If you mount a camera on a solid tripod the camera will be more stable than can be realized by OIS or IBIS.

OIS and IBIS are a trade off which allows one to shoot when they could not in the past. It's all a trade off. I view the universal use of IBIS to be overkill and IBIS is not needed on every camera. When I was at FCI we expensive test equipment used to measure the residual stabilization noise for designing our cameras.

However, without image stabilization we could not take high resolution images from aircraft flying at 70,000 feet altitude. You think it is tough for Greg to get a shot in a church - try a high resolution shot from 70,000 feet then try it from 200 kilometers. Fairchild and Instrument produced the first image stabilized camera that flew at 70,000 feet and the images with IS were orders of magnitude better. They also few the first image stabilized digital camera flown in space. We could no produce high resolutions images from space platforms without image stabilization. Without image stabilization - the Hubble telescope could not exist. Image stabilization is old technology - the first FCI IS digital camera flown at 70,000 feet was in 1974 and in space in 1976. A satellite at an orbit of 200 km is flying at about 8,000 km per second. Well duh - image stabilization is necessary.

But for going in to a church or museum where tripods are not allowed - then IBIS is an attractive option and a reasonable trade off. Sure you might do better - one shot in 1000 - by putting it on a tripod but if you couldn't it won't matter.
 
So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Hmm, it gives

- people who think IBIS is a must have

- people who think IBIS is nice to have

- people who think they do not need IBIS

- cameras that have IBIS

- cameras that do not have IBIS

and with all these different opinions and possibilities the most likely outcome from such a question is another “philosophical” war about such a technical feature. Mankind is quite an interesting species...!

Herbert
So what is wrong with making some cameras with it, and some without, so that everyone is happy?
Because there's no reason to NOT have IBIS these days. Unless it's an extreme cost cutting thing, but on a premium camera like the X-T line, it's a must have.

Is anyone here really thinking "oh man, I just wish this photo was bit blurrier", or "man, my viewfinder is too steady, I wish it would bounce all over the place"?

Well, in that case, turn IBIS off. :)
So you are saying I can't have what I want?
Right. If Fuji’s net sales are better with the feature than without, then the option for those who don’t want it is to simply turn it off. Every camera has some features that you don’t want or need. Most, if not all of these can usually be disabled or simply remain unused. It’s a business decision that Fuji makes to optimize their sales and market segment share. IMHO, there’s a perfectly good reason for Fuji to include it if it ends up increasing their sales, even if some people opt to not use it and end up disabling the feature.

There will likely remain camera models/lines which don’t contain that feature, and if the fact that it’s even present is a big deal to someone, then there is the option to buy one of those models instead. Like any other manufacturer, Fuji has to design their gear to maximize demand and profitability, even at the expense of including features in certain models that not everyone finds all that attractive.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod
 
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So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Hmm, it gives

- people who think IBIS is a must have

- people who think IBIS is nice to have

- people who think they do not need IBIS

- cameras that have IBIS

- cameras that do not have IBIS

and with all these different opinions and possibilities the most likely outcome from such a question is another “philosophical” war about such a technical feature. Mankind is quite an interesting species...!

Herbert
So what is wrong with making some cameras with it, and some without, so that everyone is happy?
Because there's no reason to NOT have IBIS these days. Unless it's an extreme cost cutting thing, but on a premium camera like the X-T line, it's a must have.
Power size and weight. IBIS requires more space, uses more power and will require the camera to be bigger and weight more and use more power. So there is a trade. Nothing comes free.
Well, in that case, turn IBIS off. :)
But that doesn't decrease the weight or size required by IBIS and probably won't reduce the power back to a camera if it didn't have IBIS.
 
So can a non Ibis camera produce a sharper image?

Fujifilm were against ibis in their cameras until recently, weren't they?

Public demand maybe nesitated the need for the X-H1, but Fujifilm appeared to be against IBIS as it would 'degrade iq' etc. So what gives?
Hmm, it gives

- people who think IBIS is a must have

- people who think IBIS is nice to have

- people who think they do not need IBIS

- cameras that have IBIS

- cameras that do not have IBIS

and with all these different opinions and possibilities the most likely outcome from such a question is another “philosophical” war about such a technical feature. Mankind is quite an interesting species...!

Herbert
So what is wrong with making some cameras with it, and some without, so that everyone is happy?
Nothing wrong with that at all... the one who wants IBIS can get himself a camera with that feature, the one who doesn’t want it can get himself a camera without the feature or turn it off.

The only thing “wrong” in here, at least as I see it... these sometimes ideological discussions, even fights about such topics... especially when they end up at a point where the mods have to close threads for things like naming etc.

By the way, I also dare to state that the original question of this thread barely can be answered by anybody here in the forum in an absolute objective way...! 😉

Herbert
 
That happens a lot in life
 
The A6500 is 49g heavier than the A6300, and the exact same size, save for the grip that is 4mm longer.

If that weight / size difference is a big deal to you, then I'd say you have far bigger problems.
 
The A6500 is 49g heavier than the A6300, and the exact same size, save for the grip that is 4mm longer.

If that weight / size difference is a big deal to you, then I'd say you have far bigger problems.
But we're in the Fuji forum, not the Sony and the X-H1 is notably larger and heavier than either the X-T2 or X-T3.

People are here shooting Fuji for many reasons other than IBIS.

Bob
 
They went for a different design philosophy, it's on a different line. I'm just proving that IBIS doesn't inherently change the overall handling of the camera.
 
The A6500 is 49g heavier than the A6300, and the exact same size, save for the grip that is 4mm longer.

If that weight / size difference is a big deal to you, then I'd say you have far bigger problems.
But we're in the Fuji forum, not the Sony and the X-H1 is notably larger and heavier than either the X-T2 or X-T3.

People are here shooting Fuji for many reasons other than IBIS.

Bob
I seriously doubt that the size of the X-H1 has all to do with IBIS but it’s more to do with making it bigger for the longer heavier zoom/cinema zoom lenses.
 

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