IBIS and the lack of it with NEX - a question

[gfrensen]

And with this lens I could shot a portrait at 1/20 f1.8 iso 200( in very low light situation), and on a sony nex with similar focal range (150mm) i'll have to use 1600iso....so ibis can make the difference...

Well what a nonsens! When you use a simular lens on the Sony, you can take the same picture with the same ISO at the same speed when using a tripod or monopod.. Or you can use other technics to steady your camera, or you can use better light.

...You are really a funny boy........".tripod/better light"...often you don't have these helps.I try to go out as light as i can and if I want to shot a person in a club may be I can ask to turn the light on...com'on!!!!!

But you cary your technics always with you, you can use it with every camera (even your cellphone camera).

I know I learned photography the hard way, with a film camera, no AF no AE, no IBIS, no ILIS, no fancy features, ISO 400 was high ISO etc. So I learned how to hold my camera correctly, I learned to use the right lens at the right time (I learned not to use a 150mm lens in doors in bad light conditions when shooting hand held) Those technics to stresdy my camera are still very usable. (look at the duck in my post)

..IBIS is always with you!...and this is a big advantage.

It is an advantage, but it only works with static objects. It will not work 100% other technics will work always (and not only tripods,but things like the way you hold your camera, the way you breath when pressing the button, the way you use objects in your surrounding to steady your camera, the way you use all the functions of your camera in the correct way...

I am not happy that with the E-5M (and 5N) you may have to carry a flash around too (I love to use a fill-in flash effect). Now this guy says you should carry a tripod everywhere with your tiny camera? It kind of defeats the purpose. This is why I take an SLT (with IBIS) everywhere. I would like to reduce its size, but adding a tripod/monopod is going in the opposite direction.

The flash of the nex3/5 is very small you can stick it on your camera and forget it. Or (when you need the port for the EVF) you can put it in the little box that can be fitted on the strap, takes no place at all, is easy to use and you can take nic pictures with fill flash...

About the tripod the next picture was Impossible to make without tripod, no IS system would have made it possible to make this picture sharp! (taken with a telescope)

If I get a NEX7, I would stick with the IS lenses, and hope that Sony makes more. Even better would be to add IBIS to the NEX 8.

Keep on dreaming, Nex cameras depend on ILIS and will not have IBIS. I wonder if in the Canon and Nikon forum this discussion going on in the same way?

 

[Gianluca Grossi]

And with this lens I could shot a portrait at 1/20 f1.8 iso 200( in very low light situation), and on a sony nex with similar focal range (150mm) i'll have to use 1600iso....so ibis can make the difference...

Well what a nonsens! When you use a simular lens on the Sony, you can take the same picture with the same ISO at the same speed when using a tripod or monopod.. Or you can use other technics to steady your camera, or you can use better light.

...You are really a funny boy........".tripod/better light"...often you don't have these helps.I try to go out as light as i can and if I want to shot a person in a club may be I can ask to turn the light on...com'on!!!!!

But you cary your technics always with you, you can use it with every camera (even your cellphone camera).

I know I learned photography the hard way, with a film camera, no AF no AE, no IBIS, no ILIS, no fancy features, ISO 400 was high ISO etc. So I learned how to hold my camera correctly, I learned to use the right lens at the right time (I learned not to use a 150mm lens in doors in bad light conditions when shooting hand held) Those technics to stresdy my camera are still very usable. (look at the duck in my post)

..IBIS is always with you!...and this is a big advantage.

It is an advantage, but it only works with static objects. It will not work 100% other technics will work always (and not only tripods,but things like the way you hold your camera, the way you breath when pressing the button, the way you use objects in your surrounding to steady your camera, the way you use all the functions of your camera in the correct way...

I am not happy that with the E-5M (and 5N) you may have to carry a flash around too (I love to use a fill-in flash effect). Now this guy says you should carry a tripod everywhere with your tiny camera? It kind of defeats the purpose. This is why I take an SLT (with IBIS) everywhere. I would like to reduce its size, but adding a tripod/monopod is going in the opposite direction.

The flash of the nex3/5 is very small you can stick it on your camera and forget it. Or (when you need the port for the EVF) you can put it in the little box that can be fitted on the strap, takes no place at all, is easy to use and you can take nic pictures with fill flash...

About the tripod the next picture was Impossible to make without tripod, no IS system would have made it possible to make this picture sharp! (taken with a telescope)

If I get a NEX7, I would stick with the IS lenses, and hope that Sony makes more. Even better would be to add IBIS to the NEX 8.

Keep on dreaming, Nex cameras depend on ILIS and will not have IBIS. I wonder if in the Canon and Nikon forum this discussion going on in the same way?

" It is an advantage, but it only works with static objects. " wrong..I used it to shot people with my epl1 and samyang 85mm f1.4 at 1/40 sec

",but things like the way you hold your camera, the way you breath when pressing the button, the way you use objects in your surrounding to steady your camera, the way you use all the functions of your camera in the correct way..."...yes that's for sure but you can't achieve in this way 4 stop stabilisation like the new OM D

"The flash of the nex3/5 is very small you can stick it on your camera and forget it. Or (when you need the port for the EVF) you can put it in the little box that can be fitted on the strap, takes no place at all, is easy to use and you can take nic pictures with fill flash..."...I dont like to shot with flash, I prefer much more available light.

"About the tripod the next picture was Impossible to make without tripod, no IS system would have made it possible to make this picture sharp!" i never said that ibis can replace tripod, so what's the point???

" Keep on dreaming, Nex cameras depend on ILIS and will not have IBIS."...that's why i choose Oly...

 

[GaryW]

....

...You are really a funny boy........".tripod/better light"...often you don't have these helps.I try to go out as light as i can and if I want to shot a person in a club may be I can ask to turn the light on...com'on!!!!!

In a dim club, people jumping around.... but you're going to get them to hold still so you can use a slow shutter with IS?

... I learned to use the right lens at the right time (I learned not to use a 150mm lens in doors in bad light conditions when shooting hand held) Those technics to stresdy my camera are still very usable. (look at the duck in my post)

There are situations where IS would have been or was useful for me. But it's not a cure-all.

..IBIS is always with you!...and this is a big advantage.

It is an advantage, but it only works with static objects. It will not work 100% other technics will work always (and not only tripods,but things like the way you hold your camera, the way you breath when pressing the button, the way you use objects in your surrounding to steady your camera, the way you use all the functions of your camera in the correct way...

In a club situation, I would consider losing the OSS and using a "faster" lens, or using higher ISO and living with the extra noise, or use AMB, which often works well enough.

I am not happy that with the E-5M (and 5N) you may have to carry a flash around too (I love to use a fill-in flash effect). Now this guy says you should carry a tripod everywhere with your tiny camera? It kind of defeats the purpose. This is why I take an SLT (with IBIS) everywhere. I would like to reduce its size, but adding a tripod/monopod is going in the opposite direction.

The flash of the nex3/5 is very small you can stick it on your camera and forget it. Or (when you need the port for the EVF) you can put it in the little box that can be fitted on the strap, takes no place at all, is easy to use and you can take nic pictures with fill flash...

It's a small flash, but if you use it with higher ISO, it's very adequate.

About the tripod the next picture was Impossible to make without tripod, no IS system would have made it possible to make this picture sharp! (taken with a telescope)

If I get a NEX7, I would stick with the IS lenses, and hope that Sony makes more. Even better would be to add IBIS to the NEX 8.

Keep on dreaming, Nex cameras depend on ILIS and will not have IBIS. I wonder if in the Canon and Nikon forum this discussion going on in the same way?

I recall Canikon fans telling Sony fans that ILIS was better than IBIS.

--
Gary W.

 

[Gianluca Grossi]

"In a dim club, people jumping around.... but you're going to get them to hold still so you can use a slow shutter with IS?"....I mean, club where there are singer or guitar player on a small stage and the light it's not very good and for sure I'cant use flash.

In this kind of situation, i find ibis very good and It happened to shot singer portrait at 1/30 1/40 sec.

 

[GaryW]

"In a dim club, people jumping around.... but you're going to get them to hold still so you can use a slow shutter with IS?"....I mean, club where there are singer or guitar player on a small stage and the light it's not very good and for sure I'cant use flash.

In this kind of situation, i find ibis very good and It happened to shot singer portrait at 1/30 1/40 sec.

Did I say I would use a flash in the "club" situation? No. I said a faster lens, higher ISO, and AMB. Still applies to stage.

Myself, I have a 50/1.7 that I would likely use. Even without IS, you can get a lot of keepers at 1/30 if you're steady (as mentioned before), but subject movement will be a problem. I've even used a 55-200 at f4 without IS, but subject movement is more of an issue than overall shake, particularly if I can brace the camera against a railing, etc.

I've taken a lot of photos of stage events, and I prefer my Nex over my old DSLR that has IBIS, even though IBIS works well. It comes down to better high ISO on the Nex, and maybe the higher res too. If I had a brand new Sony DSLR, I might find that to provide better results overall. But I find that I need to get the shutter speed up in my case because of the movement on the stage.

But yeah, if in your stage events they are always really still and you are not able to brace the camera or hold your elbows tight to your chest, then IS can substitute for higher ISO or shutter speed, and you can get clear results.

(Although, HHT and AMB are still good alternatives -- worth a try if the ultimate detail isn't needed.)
--
Gary W.

 

[gfrensen]

" It is an advantage, but it only works with static objects. " wrong..I used it to shot people with my epl1 and samyang 85mm f1.4 at 1/40 sec

As long as those people are static, you can, but when they are moving then you need to go to faster shutter speeds and/or flash to get them sharp. IBIS, ILIS or even a tripod will not stop people who move. So my comment still stands as it is.

",but things like the way you hold your camera, the way you breath when pressing the button, the way you use objects in your surrounding to steady your camera, the way you use all the functions of your camera in the correct way..."...yes that's for sure but you can't achieve in this way 4 stop stabilisation like the new OM D

Well this picture (I show it again) was taken hand held with the right supporting technics with a Sony Nex camera and a 70-400mm G lens at 400mm Shutterspeed 1/250 sec and it is sharp! Gaining about 2 stops! The 4 stops claimed by many brands (Sony, Olympus, Canon, Nikon etc.) is more marketing then real gain. My personal experience is that you can get 2-3 stops.

"The flash of the nex3/5 is very small you can stick it on your camera and forget it. Or (when you need the port for the EVF) you can put it in the little box that can be fitted on the strap, takes no place at all, is easy to use and you can take nic pictures with fill flash..."...I dont like to shot with flash, I prefer much more available light.

That part was for the other post that commented that the external flash was a downside, not to you.

"About the tripod the next picture was Impossible to make without tripod, no IS system would have made it possible to make this picture sharp!" i never said that ibis can replace tripod, so what's the point???

The point is that a tripod do much better then IBIS that picture is the proof of that.

" Keep on dreaming, Nex cameras depend on ILIS and will not have IBIS."...that's why i choose Oly...

And what are you doing here then? There is a forum for m43 you know? Are you defending your choice? You don't need tok, we all know the bennefits of IBIS we don't need some m43 user to tell us that (I own a A700 with IBIS, it is a great camera and I like the IBIS, but Sony has some nice lenses (inclutding a 50mm 1.8) with OIS that is as effective as IBIS. When I need IS I take that lens.

 

[gfrensen]

(Although, HHT and AMB are still good alternatives -- worth a try if the ultimate detail isn't needed.)

He can't try it, he owns an an Olympius camera that lack those nice features.

--
Gary W.

 

[SQLGuy]

Just a note, for those of you who sound (relatively) new to photography: the 1/FL rule comes from back in the film days, and most film is still higher effective resolution than modern 16 or 24 MP sensors.

Also keep in mind that IBIS, OSS, etc, don't help you for moving subjects. If you're shooting moving subjects you'll still need a fast lens, regardless of whether it's stabilized.

I will say that, until the 50 F1.8 comes out, the lineup of E-mount IS lenses are all pretty slow. The kit zoom is a mere F5.6 at 55, while my Canon FD 55 is F1.2. OSS is not going to make up that difference, even for static subjects. Being able to add IBIS to F1.x legacy lenses might be a nice benefit if you're doing low light static shots.

...and found that I shot about 10% of the time at shutter speeds at or below 1/EFL (effective focal length).

Back in the days of 6-10MP cameras the 1/EFL rules was OK. We are talking about 16-24MP camera today, and so many studies have found you need some thing faster or good IS. As resolution increases, so does the need for a steady lens/camera and OSS, SSS or IBIS.

--

Nex-7 with kit lenses, Contax G 35, and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

 

[Gianluca Grossi]

"In a dim club, people jumping around.... but you're going to get them to hold still so you can use a slow shutter with IS?"....I mean, club where there are singer or guitar player on a small stage and the light it's not very good and for sure I'cant use flash.

In this kind of situation, i find ibis very good and It happened to shot singer portrait at 1/30 1/40 sec.

Did I say I would use a flash in the "club" situation? No. I said a faster lens, higher ISO, and AMB. Still applies to stage.

Myself, I have a 50/1.7 that I would likely use. Even without IS, you can get a lot of keepers at 1/30 if you're steady (as mentioned before), but subject movement will be a problem. I've even used a 55-200 at f4 without IS, but subject movement is more of an issue than overall shake, particularly if I can brace the camera against a railing, etc.

I've taken a lot of photos of stage events, and I prefer my Nex over my old DSLR that has IBIS, even though IBIS works well. It comes down to better high ISO on the Nex, and maybe the higher res too. If I had a brand new Sony DSLR, I might find that to provide better results overall. But I find that I need to get the shutter speed up in my case because of the movement on the stage.

But yeah, if in your stage events they are always really still and you are not able to brace the camera or hold your elbows tight to your chest, then IS can substitute for higher ISO or shutter speed, and you can get clear results.

(Although, HHT and AMB are still good alternatives -- worth a try if the ultimate detail isn't needed.)
--
Gary W.

" Did I say I would use a flash in the "club" situation? No. " I was referring to the quote of the aother person

 

[Gianluca Grossi]

" It is an advantage, but it only works with static objects. " wrong..I used it to shot people with my epl1 and samyang 85mm f1.4 at 1/40 sec

As long as those people are static, you can, but when they are moving then you need to go to faster shutter speeds and/or flash to get them sharp. IBIS, ILIS or even a tripod will not stop people who move. So my comment still stands as it is.

",but things like the way you hold your camera, the way you breath when pressing the button, the way you use objects in your surrounding to steady your camera, the way you use all the functions of your camera in the correct way..."...yes that's for sure but you can't achieve in this way 4 stop stabilisation like the new OM D

Well this picture (I show it again) was taken hand held with the right supporting technics with a Sony Nex camera and a 70-400mm G lens at 400mm Shutterspeed 1/250 sec and it is sharp! Gaining about 2 stops! The 4 stops claimed by many brands (Sony, Olympus, Canon, Nikon etc.) is more marketing then real gain. My personal experience is that you can get 2-3 stops.

"The flash of the nex3/5 is very small you can stick it on your camera and forget it. Or (when you need the port for the EVF) you can put it in the little box that can be fitted on the strap, takes no place at all, is easy to use and you can take nic pictures with fill flash..."...I dont like to shot with flash, I prefer much more available light.

That part was for the other post that commented that the external flash was a downside, not to you.

"About the tripod the next picture was Impossible to make without tripod, no IS system would have made it possible to make this picture sharp!" i never said that ibis can replace tripod, so what's the point???

The point is that a tripod do much better then IBIS that picture is the proof of that.

" Keep on dreaming, Nex cameras depend on ILIS and will not have IBIS."...that's why i choose Oly...

And what are you doing here then? There is a forum for m43 you know? Are you defending your choice? You don't need tok, we all know the bennefits of IBIS we don't need some m43 user to tell us that (I own a A700 with IBIS, it is a great camera and I like the IBIS, but Sony has some nice lenses (inclutding a 50mm 1.8) with OIS that is as effective as IBIS. When I need IS I take that lens.

"Well this picture (I show it again) was taken hand held with the right supporting technics with a Sony Nex camera and a 70-400mm G lens at 400mm Shutterspeed 1/250 sec and it is sharp! Gaining about 2 stops!" it's one stop...not 2( if it was to stop you had to shot at 1/150!!!!!!!!!!)

"And what are you doing here then? There is a forum for m43 you know? Are you defending your choice? You don't need tok, we all know the bennefits of IBIS we don't need some m43 user to tell us that (I own a A700 with IBIS, it is a great camera and I like the IBIS, but Sony has some nice lenses (inclutding a 50mm 1.8) with OIS that is as effective as IBIS. When I need IS I take that lens."...I have own a sony nex 5n for 3months and I sell it because apart hdr mode I didn't find the camera up to my expectation...and after seeing the new sony lens roadmap I finally understood this is not the sistem right for me,.I wa salso drawn to the sistem for focus peaking, but didn't find it's a game changer because if you want to be sure of the focus area you have to magify

So I'm here to share my experiences knowing that each system has its own strengths but formy needs oly is the better choice.

 

[win39]

Image stabilization works on a cycle rate somewhere around 50 to 100 times per second. It is designed to work fine at slow shutter speeds like 1/30 of a second. If you are using it and shooting at high speed like 1/500 of a second you can only catch a partial stabilization cycle. You might be lucky at catch it at the end when the image is stabilized, but more likely you are likely to catch it when the either the lens element or the sensor is in motion and it messes the picture up. I imagine that there are some makers who are turning it off in the background when shutter speeds go up, but not most.