Chris Dera
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Funny you mention this. I made me remember some fun shots at the beach with my daughter. Turns out hss did over power the sun by a good margin in some that I took. Its a "weird" look for sure. I was just playing around... but even at 1/2500 at with hss I was over powering the sun which back lit my scene. Yes, it was fairly close 24-85mm normal views... But still very possible, despite being "impossible". I think I was playing around with a cheap Yongnou flash when I took them.Yes, that is one. The other one is sort of a passing fad with wedding photographers where they are outdoors but they still want to over-power the Sun.I've been in situation shooting at the beach where the sun is behind the model. In that case the sun is illuminating the background, and the flash is the main light for the model. In that situation, I want the power of the flash to be similar to the sun, not a few stops down.No, you don't.But for sun-light fill-flash you usually are going to need "full" power.What he says is that you need less power than full.Once again ... how do you get MORE working distance with less power ???
Inverse square law - if you need full power at 1m then but you need only 1/4 power you get 2m, etc ...
For me fill flash is usually 1/8 or 1/4 power. Just enough to get the shadows from out underneath the eyes. Every studio photographer knows that the fill light is always less than the key light. Never equal or greater.
I know that you know this.That is why I know that you are purposely being misleading.
TedolphThats why he needed an (originally) GN-300 to reach (only) 8' @ f/1.4 -- because it's effective power was so severely reduced via HSS.
I could get 15+' (w/ GN-48 @ f/2.8) because leaf-shutters don't (effectively) "reduce" the original GN, (until SS is shorter than flash-duration).
So w/ leaf-shutter, I still had an effective GN (48) -- HIGHER than he had w/ GN-300 after FP/HSS "reduction", (to what appeared to be about GN-11).
Not everyone is in the same situation.
It looks a little weird.
Tedolph
Teddy, If you are starting with a base GN-48, (or even 300 if you want), WHAT is the final GN @ 1/8-power ???No, you don't.But for sun-light fill-flash you usually are going to need "full" power.What he says is that you need less power than full.Once again ... how do you get MORE working distance with less power ???
Inverse square law - if you need full power at 1m then but you need only 1/4 power you get 2m, etc ...
For me fill flash is usually 1/8 or 1/4 power.
I suggest it needs to be within 1-stop, (but 2-stops at most), and do agree that could double the 1:1 ratio max-distance. (I suggest 3-stops under would be insignificant.)Just enough to get the shadows from out underneath the eyes. Every studio photographer knows that the fill light is always less than the key light. Never equal or greater.
I know I can PROVE that I know a lot about "fill" flash, I have been doing SUN-light fill-flash since 1969. (bulb flash since 1959, electronic strobe since 1964, but not one powerful enough for SUN-light fill until '69 -- albeit w/ Leica M3 w/ FP shutter & 1/50s sync-speed)I know that you know this.That is why I know that you are purposely being misleading.
TedolphThats why he needed an (originally) GN-300 to reach (only) 8' @ f/1.4 -- because it's effective power was so severely reduced via HSS.
I could get 15+' (w/ GN-48 @ f/2.8) because leaf-shutters don't (effectively) "reduce" the original GN, (until SS is shorter than flash-duration).
So w/ leaf-shutter, I still had an effective GN (48) -- HIGHER than he had w/ GN-300 after FP/HSS "reduction", (to what appeared to be about GN-11).
And that is indeed exactly the situation I am discussing that is indeed a very COMMON PROBLEM for BEGINNERS. This is evidenced by the many threads here where they have asked how they can get proper exposure for the, (shadowed), face w/out blowing/saturating the background.I've been in situation shooting at the beach where the sun is behind the model. In that case the sun is illuminating the background, and the flash is the main light for the model.No, you don't.But for sun-light fill-flash you usually are going to need "full" power.What he says is that you need less power than full.Once again ... how do you get MORE working distance with less power ???
Inverse square law - if you need full power at 1m then but you need only 1/4 power you get 2m, etc ...
For me fill flash is usually 1/8 or 1/4 power. Just enough to get the shadows from out underneath the eyes. Every studio photographer knows that the fill light is always less than the key light. Never equal or greater.
I know that you know this.That is why I know that you are purposely being misleading.
TedolphThats why he needed an (originally) GN-300 to reach (only) 8' @ f/1.4 -- because it's effective power was so severely reduced via HSS.
I could get 15+' (w/ GN-48 @ f/2.8) because leaf-shutters don't (effectively) "reduce" the original GN, (until SS is shorter than flash-duration).
So w/ leaf-shutter, I still had an effective GN (48) -- HIGHER than he had w/ GN-300 after FP/HSS "reduction", (to what appeared to be about GN-11).
And I agree with Teddy that that 1-stop under can "work", (to "lessen" shadows). But you are also correct in that the exact matching-power of ambient can often be best.In that situation, I want the power of the flash to be similar to the sun, not a few stops down.
Leaf-shutter simply allows more options in more situations, with fewer limitations.Not everyone is in the same situation.
What is weird to some, is desirable/creative to others.Yes, that is one. The other one is sort of a passing fad with wedding photographers where they are outdoors but they still want to over-power the Sun.I've been in situation shooting at the beach where the sun is behind the model. In that case the sun is illuminating the background, and the flash is the main light for the model. In that situation, I want the power of the flash to be similar to the sun, not a few stops down.No, you don't.But for sun-light fill-flash you usually are going to need "full" power.What he says is that you need less power than full.Once again ... how do you get MORE working distance with less power ???
Inverse square law - if you need full power at 1m then but you need only 1/4 power you get 2m, etc ...
For me fill flash is usually 1/8 or 1/4 power. Just enough to get the shadows from out underneath the eyes. Every studio photographer knows that the fill light is always less than the key light. Never equal or greater.
I know that you know this.That is why I know that you are purposely being misleading.
TedolphThats why he needed an (originally) GN-300 to reach (only) 8' @ f/1.4 -- because it's effective power was so severely reduced via HSS.
I could get 15+' (w/ GN-48 @ f/2.8) because leaf-shutters don't (effectively) "reduce" the original GN, (until SS is shorter than flash-duration).
So w/ leaf-shutter, I still had an effective GN (48) -- HIGHER than he had w/ GN-300 after FP/HSS "reduction", (to what appeared to be about GN-11).
Not everyone is in the same situation.
It looks a little weird.





That makes it sound like the flash is getting the job done, but is paying its dues to do it. One reality is that HSS does absolutely nothing positive to increase the ratio of flash exposure to ambient exposure, as you increase the shutter speed, but a leaf shutter can keep increasing that ratio long after the SS point where the ratio drops due to HSS with a dual-curtain shutter. A halving of guide number for each doubling of shutter speed means a flat-line for the ratio, because ambient light exposure decreases at the same rate.He says "It works well, but it comes at the expense of power, and heat. HSS works the flash really hard."
A relative waste of power. Most of that light that makes it to the sensor plane is hitting the shutter curtains. Beginners need to get realistic models in their heads in the beginning. They need to know that dual-curtain shutters are a gimmick, although a useful gimmick in some ways like getting shorter pixel exposure times, but NOT in helping with flash:ambient exposure levels, or being able to freeze vertical camera/subject registrations during the full sensor exposure interval.Now, if you are really bothered about beginners (and not, as I suspect, just beating a drum) then you'll realise that a beginner won't know what Guide Number means (whether abbreviated or not) but can easily understand the message "... at the expense of power".