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Highlighting relationships via composition

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Priviet, Shay!
Agree with you about Bruce (BTW havn't seen his posts for about several months).

You know, photography is my hobby. So I had a chance to photograph weddings only once. Among 100 shots I like this most of all.
Interesting to know your opinion about this one:
---



---
Sorry for posting photo here,
Yuri
http://pautov.viplast.ru
 
Daniel, yes, that is what I am talking about. You have some great examples in that slidshow! Thank you for the link.
Daniel Chui said:
Excellent work, Shay... I love the technique of using shallow DOF
with background interest; I try and use it whenever I see the
opportunity.

If you're interested, check out the fourth slideshow down on this
page:

http://chewyphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/295551

It's my Nov 6 Wasabi Warriors slideshow. I tried to use the same
technique in these shots and I was pretty happy with the results =)
Click to expand...
--
Portfolio: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
 
Yuri, I like this photo, it is very sweet and the brides eye looking at the camera makes the photo feel personal and intimate. Very nicely done!
Yuri Pautov said:
Priviet, Shay!
Agree with you about Bruce (BTW havn't seen his posts for about
several months).
You know, photography is my hobby. So I had a chance to photograph
weddings only once. Among 100 shots I like this most of all.
Interesting to know your opinion about this one:
---



---
Click to expand...
--
Portfolio: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
 
..always nice to hear mention
of ones name unexpectedly : )
Beautiful images you post..
love the second in particular....and the fourth.
Its so true about the dynamics between multiple subjects,
the potential is far greater and therefore the challenge too..
essentially that boils down to more...fun!!

Smoking dragons...



Reflection..



Best wishes my friend...
Bruce
Shay Stephens said:
One of the better photographers on these boards when it comes to
relational composition in my opinion is Bvcuma. I love the way he
places other people in a portrait that highlights the relationship
between them. So it is in that vein that I would like to show some
photos that attempt to emulate that technique in a wedding
atmosphere, and show the relationship between people and things
using composition.

The bride and her dress in the background.



The bride and her soon to be father in law



Bridesmaids



The ring and a happy bride



Food and drink



The bride and father in law and the groom and mother



So keep an eye on the background, use a wide aperture, get close,
and zoom to help blur the background to start showing more
relationships in your photos too :-)

--
Portfolio: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
Click to expand...
 
Yuri Pautov said:
Priviet, Shay!
Agree with you about Bruce (BTW havn't seen his posts for about
several months).
You know, photography is my hobby. So I had a chance to photograph
weddings only once. Among 100 shots I like this most of all.
Interesting to know your opinion about this one:
---



---
Sorry for posting photo here,
Yuri
http://pautov.viplast.ru
Click to expand...
--

That's delightful Yuri - and amusing in a very Russian way.

Richard C. South Australia
 
...no not much posting these days..
I think I over did it initially lol.
Kind of in a holding pattern at the moment..
so not taking many pictures iether.
Conceptually I am trying to understand
what it is about photography that appeals to me.
Here is a recent thread that prompted
me to engage in discussion and explore ideas.
Here's the link.... you might enjoy.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=11122345

Of course I keep an eye out for your posts : ))
I enjoyed that heavily PSed b&w portrait...
like his life was etched in stone.

a pic for you..



Another..
(two wet cats warming by the morning fire... haha)



your friend Bruce
Yuri Pautov said:
Priviet, Shay!
Agree with you about Bruce (BTW havn't seen his posts for about
several months).
Click to expand...
 
The most moving thread I've come across in the time I've been lurking and learning.

Thank you Bruce.

Scott
 
Outstanding Shay. These are the types of things pros usually don't like to share or even point out in other's work because it is the real value added side of photography. Thanks for pointing it out in Bvcuma's work and demonstrating it yourself.

It's interesting that as a viewer this is easily apparent to me but as a photographer this never occurs to me while shooting. Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm lousy at portraits.

Now if I just had your technical depth, Bvcuma's feel for a subject, Yehuda's ability to put his subjects at ease, Dani's ability to make the ordinary look extraordinary and Andy's ability to fit the whole outdoors into a frame...

Dan
 
Shay

Your pictures are just exceptional, so artistic and technically so well-done, I can't help but being incredibly impressed by the talent behind !

This idea is of a pic with 2 subjects, one primary (& in-focus), the other secondary (and out-of-focus, in the background) seems very hard. The following is obvious, but serves of introduction to my comments: one very critical technical apears to be the choice of DOF: too shallow and the 2nd subject is too blurry, hard to discern. Too deep and you loose the message that the 2nd subject is part of the background. Somewhere in between and with the wrong composition and one has the impression that you've missed the pic, that you want to show two people, say, but miscalculated the DOF.

While I have nowhere the talent that you have, and my face is getting red at daring to express any view that is not just "wow", being sincere is important. To my eyes, you've fully achieved what you've wanted to do in most - but not all - the pics.
  • In the first one, the dress is too hard to discern, meaning that if you hadn't told me it is a wedding dress I would not have guessed it. The DOF is a bit too shallow IMO.
  • I would say that DOF is still too shallow in the 2nd pic. I feel that the father's face being a very little more in focus would have been beneficial to the image. Or maybe I'm reacting to the side-lighting on his face. Okay that is a very picky comment on that one. On a side note, I really love the way you've composed the pic in a slanted way, it "balances" the direction towards which the bride's eyes are looking very well.
  • The very small amount of slant in 5 - likely unwanted - is distracting. More than anywhere else, taste definitely plays a role here: to my eyes the pic looks like an interesting foreground but the photographer did not blurred enough the background, rather than what is intended: drink in the forefront and (lots of) food behind. In other words the background seems kind of uninteresting, but the glasses, the bottles, the reflections, the nice touch with food (strawberries and grapes), ... all the elements of the foreground make for a beautiful pic.
  • the others are so wonderful ! #3 and the last one are my favorites.
Thank you for posting ! Forget the comments, I'm in awe ...

Thierry
 
Shay, you and I have talked about this before, both personally as well as in the forum environment. I get a bit peeved (okay, a lot) when hearing about complaints about white balance. What some may fail to realize is that just like you can shoot a picture and pre-visualize it in black and white, a photographer can also pre-visualize a scene with a certain cast/tint/tone to it. And when you can realize that in your processing, then you have made room for finer expression in the photo.

It's almost as if sometimes people think that we just happen upon this stuff by accident. :-)

Forgive me for being just a bit indignant. You handled your answer beautifully, but I'm sure you won't mind the rest of your closest friends here being just a little irked FOR YOU.

Good grief.

Interestingly enough, remember the "old days" when we chased after the noise removal, the perfect white balance, and absolute freezing of the motion? I'm glad to be rid of those shackles of the mind, as well as even more happy to use those little "imperfections" to advantage.
Shay Stephens said:
Yes this is true. I like to keep wedding photos on the warm side
of things for the most part because it feels more inviting than
having a cool cast. I don't care for perfectly neutral WB for
wedding photos because it tends to suck the life out of it for me.
Click to expand...
--
Ulysses
http://www.ulyssesphotography.com
 
Nice to meet you again!
As always, clever, intelligent, sensible photos.
Thank you for the link, I must read all the thread carefuly.
As for the old man B&W - He died...

(This is not the first time I make photos and people go far away... so my photos are the last one...)
Spasibo,
Yuri
http://pautov.viplast.ru
 
...from you, Shay. Beautiful and emotive photos all of them. I'm always learning from threads like these. While I would not expect to shoot any more weddings (did one, for my sister 25 years ago), posts like these contribute much to those who may consider shooting weddings, or something similar.

And yes, Bvcuma's posts and pics - wow.
  • David
Shay Stephens said:
Shay Stephens wrote:
Click to expand...
.......
Shay Stephens said:
One of the better photographers on these boards when it comes to
relational composition in my opinion is Bvcuma. I love the way he
places other people in a portrait that highlights the relationship
between them. So it is in that vein that I would like to show some
photos that attempt to emulate that technique in a wedding
atmosphere, and show the relationship between people and things
using composition.
Click to expand...
 
Shay, it's been interesting and enjoyable watching your development in the photography field since the move to NY, these photos are proof that you made the right decision.

Also interesting to note that STF is now being infiltrated by Trojans.

Richard
 
This is a lot of help for my eye and ideas. I never notice things like this in my compositions. It does add a lot to the photo, telling more of the story. Very beautifully done on your pictures Shay and Bruce! I've also always liked the way Ulysses shows emotion in his shots too.

Shay, are you using a homemade filter on your softening and warming of these shots, or are you just doing each by themselves getting the feel of each in particlular? I've always wondered why your photos always struck me in awe most of the time, now I know why. I've was aware that your post processing is extraordinary, but there is a lot more to the shot that I see, but didn't notice up front.
Thanks again for the thread and Photos from both of you!
--
Happy to Photograph!
Ken
http://kennyb.smugmug.com
 
TOF guy said:
While I have nowhere the talent that you have, and my face is
getting red at daring to express any view that is not just "wow",
being sincere is important. To my eyes, you've fully achieved what
you've wanted to do in most - but not all - the pics.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the comments and also for the critique. A thoughtful analysis is a great thing and I appreciate it.
TOF guy said:
  • In the first one, the dress is too hard to discern, meaning that
if you hadn't told me it is a wedding dress I would not have
guessed it. The DOF is a bit too shallow IMO.
Click to expand...
These photos really have two audiences. The first one participated in the events and the second did not. The first one is familiar with all the elements portrayed and the second may need more visual help to identify what is going on. The way I shot it was primarily for the first audience, but I can see how considering the second audience would be beneficial and perhaps more story telling to friends and family who did not attend the wedding.

But there are also the technical considerations of using a smaller DOF. Typically in a wedding environment, the lighting is so low that wide apertures are used the entire time.

So this is an interesting problem to ponder, I am glad you brought it up.
TOF guy said:
  • I would say that DOF is still too shallow in the 2nd pic. I feel
that the father's face being a very little more in focus would have
been beneficial to the image. Or maybe I'm reacting to the
side-lighting on his face. Okay that is a very picky comment on
that one. On a side note, I really love the way you've composed the
pic in a slanted way, it "balances" the direction towards which the
bride's eyes are looking very well.
  • The very small amount of slant in 5 - likely unwanted - is
distracting. More than anywhere else, taste definitely plays a role
here: to my eyes the pic looks like an interesting foreground but
the photographer did not blurred enough the background, rather than
what is intended: drink in the forefront and (lots of) food behind.
In other words the background seems kind of uninteresting, but the
glasses, the bottles, the reflections, the nice touch with food
(strawberries and grapes), ... all the elements of the foreground
make for a beautiful pic.
Click to expand...
I personally liked the contrast of the seriousness of the wine and the whimsy of the food. But I can surely see that picking one or th other would have yielded a less ambiguous emotional response. Yours was an unexpected view, but a welcomed one for sure. Thank you very much.

--
Portfolio: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
 
Trials Photographer said:
Outstanding Shay. These are the types of things pros usually don't
like to share or even point out in other's work because it is the
real value added side of photography. Thanks for pointing it out in
Bvcuma's work and demonstrating it yourself.

It's interesting that as a viewer this is easily apparent to me but
as a photographer this never occurs to me while shooting. Maybe
that's one of the reasons I'm lousy at portraits.
Click to expand...
I find it takes conscious effort to pay attention to what is going on in the background and trying to find ways to incorporate it into the composition. So if you are like me, it will take determination to get the results as it doesn't come naturally and rarely happens by chance :-)

Thank you for the comments :-)

--
Portfolio: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
 
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