Hi ISO Low Noise

[Rriley]

how completely deceptive from this FF apologist

I am nothing of the kind.

thats exactly what you are
you distort and BS to make your story seem real, it isnt

picks some economic backwater left behind since the Napoleonic forays, and converts to US$

Oh, there you go again about economic backwaters. I didn't get to answer you last time because of the 150 message limit.

since when was Dk the global supreme currency
isnt that why you distorted your post by by converting to US DOLLARS

I use the prices that are relevant to me ,

fine, BUT why persecute the rest of the planet with your backwoods backward economy. You need to get the message into your skull that more people here are concerned with the impacts in the US, by far a bigger economy

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı

 

[papillon_65]

am I the only one who thinks the DOF in the last one was Photoshopped in? There is no tail off, its shallow then sharp immediately. At that distance I've never seen DOF like that before.
--
667....Neighbour of the beast....Form is temporary, glass is permanent.

 

[Fotogejst]

Fotogejst wrote:

The Oly concept is not very competitive at the high end. It cannot be for reasons of simple geometry.

can u explain this a bit more???

I can try. You need lenses that are two stops faster than on FF to reach parity. That means larger diameter elements, and just as importantly, thicker elements because of the curvature. This translate into much heavier and more expensive. At the limit you reach a situation where the relative thickness of the elements make it impossible to construct the lens at all. The is a reason why we don't have a 25 mm f/0.6 to match the wonderful Zuiko you mention below.

High end = blured pictures with low DOF???? If u whould print that pictures u posted as example on a A3 it whould be too unsharp cos of low DOF, u whould rather accept more noeise ;-) And totaly pointless for the mass DSLR buyers .....

If you want more DoF on FF stop it down two stops to reach parity with 4/3. Remember that FF reaches the diffraction limit later than 4/3 and it has to be enlarged less to get the same print. It all evens out.

I have f1.2 50mm OM for portrates tho ;-)

I also have that one, but I use it on my three OM cameras and my SLR/c. I really like that lens.

 

[Rriley]

300mm at F2.8 1/200th sec,

ISO6400 + 1/3rd stop e/v

300/2.8 on FF at 50ft DoF = 1.41 ft
150/2 on 4/3rds at 50ft DoF = 2.01ft

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı

 

[Rriley]

nt

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı

 

[Fotogejst]

Try a 300 at f/4 on FF: 300/4 on a D700 at 50 ft: DoF = 1.99 ft

Not surprisingly the same as the 150/2 on 4/3rds at the same distance, using a circle of confusion of 0.03 mm for FF vs. 0.015 mm for 4/3rds.

300mm at F2.8 1/200th sec,

ISO6400 + 1/3rd stop e/v

300/2.8 on FF at 50ft DoF = 1.41 ft
150/2 on 4/3rds at 50ft DoF = 2.01ft

 

[Fotogejst]

you distort and BS to make your story seem real, it isnt

Careful, man.

since when was Dk the global supreme currency

DKK is basically just EUR measured using another scale. A bit like Fahrenheit and Celsius.

isnt that why you distorted your post by by converting to US DOLLARS

No, I converted to $$$ to make it easier for the person I replied to to compare. Had he used €€€, I would have converted to €€€.

I use the prices that are relevant to me ,

fine, BUT why persecute the rest of the planet with your backwoods backward economy.

It's far from backwards. It is richer and more technically advanced than yours. And my father can beat your father.

You need to get the message into your skull that more people here are concerned with the impacts in the US, by far a bigger economy

Why are you so concerned about the poor Americans? It would be rather more relevant for you to be concerned about economic impacts in Australia.

The cameras under discussion are made in East Asia by Japanese corporations in case you forgot.

 

[Rriley]

you distort and BS to make your story seem real, it isnt

Careful, man.

no need, you are distorting the comparative values of these cameras and i take exception to that

since when was Dk the global supreme currency

DKK is basically just EUR measured using another scale. A bit like Fahrenheit and Celsius.

isnt that why you distorted your post by by converting to US DOLLARS

No, I converted to $$$ to make it easier for the person I replied to to compare. Had he used €€€, I would have converted to €€€.

its not that, you take the forum to be suckers, quoting some backwoods store 99.999% of this forum would never visit, and then convert those prices for US$. Thats distortion in anyones language, the only relevant US prices are from US stores, B&H being a classic example.

you keep quoting your B grade economy like it matters, it doesnt

I use the prices that are relevant to me ,

fine, BUT why persecute the rest of the planet with your backwoods backward economy.

It's far from backwards. It is richer and more technically advanced than yours. And my father can beat your father.

You need to get the message into your skull that more people here are concerned with the impacts in the US, by far a bigger economy

Why are you so concerned about the poor Americans? It would be rather more relevant for you to be concerned about economic impacts in Australia.

actually we buy in from the US and Asia, whatever offers the best deal. It seems we will never be buying in from your presently going backwards economy

with good reason...

The cameras under discussion are made in East Asia by Japanese corporations in case you forgot.

so why is your currency relevant again
it isnt, period
--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı

 

[Rriley]

he says

"I was shooting the 300 2.8 VR @ 2.8."
thats the relevant dof calc, the difference being 0.6ft at 50ft

and its still NOT ISO10,000

Not surprisingly the same as the 150/2 on 4/3rds at the same distance, using a circle of confusion of 0.03 mm for FF vs. 0.015 mm for 4/3rds.

300mm at F2.8 1/200th sec,

ISO6400 + 1/3rd stop e/v

300/2.8 on FF at 50ft DoF = 1.41 ft
150/2 on 4/3rds at 50ft DoF = 2.01ft

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı

 

[Fotogejst]

and its still NOT ISO10,000

I never said it was, guvnor!

 

[chuckielpn]

as an olympus and canon owner, i browse the canon 5d and nikon d700 forums cause i like the 5d2 and the nikon d700.

whenever i see a good video or pic, i always comment positively on it.

i don't see too many olympus people over there bragging about things, but it always amuse me to see canon/nikon people here trying to prove how big their manhood is.

 

[Fotogejst]

actually we buy in from the US and Asia, whatever offers the best deal.

Good for you.

It seems we will never be buying in from your presently going backwards economy

You probably couldn't afford to anyway. Surprisingly enough, we can and do. That Olympus for reason has decided not to be competitive in the European market is their loss. Nobody else's.

 

[Fotogejst]

i don't see too many olympus people over there bragging about things, but it always amuse me to see canon/nikon people here trying to prove how big their manhood is.

I don't think there are any Nikon or Canon users in this thread.

 

[irmo]

1) Difraction

• it's nonsence, becouse difractions is give by diameter of the apertune, not by apertune number itself. F=f/D ;-) So 4/3 f=150mm F2 has exactly (not realy becouse of lens construction) difraction as FF f=300 f4 lens, D = f/F. Thats why I don't wry to use f16,32 on my 100mm macro while I try not to use f11+ on my 14mm lens .....

2) thickness of lenses, weight and so on. Look on the zuiko F1.2 how small is the front elemet compared to zuiko 12-60 witch is F4 at 50mm as u can see the size, weight of lenses isn't given by senzor size realy, but is given by lens design. Smaller senzor = smaller mirror = more place for desing of a lens. My personal opinion is that in 30-50 years all SLR will die out, and there will be only systems like u4/3 (atm thay have big problems with AF, noiese from head , becouse senzor need to run nostop, all this will change with improved technology)

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=32410213

And this is 1 more point why I like oly u can take a cheap Vivitar (aka Kiron) 100mm f2.8 (payed 30$) and start to have funn. You can be sure any lens can adjusted to olympus body and u will have IS!!! (all the shots are hand held at around 18-19h and no flash used)

 

[irmo]

olympus is competitiv in Europ, but not in "top" profi models .... u whant see many 14-35mm, 35-100mm or 90-250 zuikos in europ shops , but u will see lot's of olympus low-end bodies lens in shops, becouse thayer simply the best u can get for u money (it's hard to beat e-510+14-42+40-150 for less than 400 eur ...)

btw just today I sow e-3 in shop for 2200 euro, whan I was going to buy food and I'm not going to claim the AVG price of e-3 is 2200 eur ...
I'm from Slovakia (center europ), but I both my oly e-3 in canada tho.

 

[Fotogejst]

2) thickness of lenses, weight and so on. Look on the zuiko F1.2 how small is the front elemet compared to zuiko 12-60 witch is F4 at 50mm as u can see the size, weight of lenses isn't given by senzor size realy, but is given by lens design.

Of course the size is given by the design. That goes without saying.

A 50 mm f/1.2 has an entrance pupil diameter of 41.7 mm. Per definition. A (hypothetic) 25 mm f/0.6 also has an entrance pupil diameter of 41.7 mm. They let in the same amount of light. It is rather more difficult to construct. Especially when you add telecentricity requirements. The PL 25 mm f/1.4 is already quite a monster.

Smaller senzor = smaller mirror = more place for desing of a lens. My personal opinion is that in 30-50 years all SLR will die out,

I think it will happen a lot faster than that.

and there will be only systems like u4/3 (atm thay have big problems with AF, noiese from head , becouse senzor need to run nostop, all this will change with improved technology)

There is no reason why there couldn't be FF EVIL cameras as well. In fact, I think there will.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=32410213

And this is 1 more point why I like oly u can take a cheap Vivitar (aka Kiron) 100mm f2.8 (payed 30$) and start to have funn.

You can also adapt a lot of stuff to cameras with the Canon EF mount. It's register is 44 mm. OM is 46 mm, M42 is 45.5 mm, Leica R is 47 mm, Nikon F is 46.5, Mamiya 645 is 63.3 mm. That's why I chose a Kodak Pro SLR/c over the otherwise similar SLR/n. I can mount a lot more fun stuff on it