Hi ISO Low Noise

That Fire Jump is beautiful; thanks.

Love Vjim
 
hmm FF .... he was shooting with 300mm f2.8

So if I whant some image's I whould need to shoot on olympus:
150 mm (2x crop)
f1.4 (to achieve some some DOF)
and ISO2500 to achieve some expositure (I have lower f, need lower ISO)
some time.

Well sure we don't have a 150mm lens f1.4, so we simply can't achieve shot's like that on the link and I think d700 at ISO10000 beat oly on ISO2500, but can this shots satisfide the price difference???

but e-3 1000$ 150mm f2.0 2200$ = 3200$
D700 2200$ 300mm f2.8 6000$ = 8200$
 
some shutter speed, ofcorse .....

ISO3200 and f2 give u slower shutter speed, for f2 u whould need ISO5100 to achieve some shutter speed, bigger sensor means nothing. The combination of lens+body make diference ....

FF and 300mm f4 lens is as good as oly + 150mm f2 lens
 
Well sure we don't have a 150mm lens f1.4, so we simply can't achieve shot's like that on the link and I think d700 at ISO10000 beat oly on ISO2500, but can this shots satisfide the price difference???

but e-3 1000$ 150mm f2.0 2200$ = 3200$
D700 2200$ 300mm f2.8 6000$ = 8200$
Whether the shots can justify the price difference is something I can't answer, of course. But I thought it was fun to compare with the prices from somewhere else where everything is more expensive in general but Oly stuff in particular (converted to USD using google):

E-3 body @ $1,974 + ZD 150 mm f/2 @ $3,324 = $5,298
D700 body @ $2,981 + Nikkor 300 mm f/2.8 @ $7,026 = $10,007

Still quite a difference, but what if we level the field and pick a cheaper lens that is still capable of producing pictures on the D700 equivalent to the ZD 150/2?

D700 body @ $2,981 + Nikkor 300 mm f/4 @ $1,994 = $4,975

Did you notice that? The D700 with Nikkor 300/4 is actually about $320 cheaper than the E-3 with ZD 150/2 combo?

What we are discussing here is, in other words, a Nikon based system capable of taking pictures no Oly can, costing almost, but not quite, twice as much. Or a Nikon one corresponding to the best Oly one for about six percent less money.

Let's say we decide that the prices of the Oly system and the cheaper Nikon option are close enough to not be the deciding factor. Let's look at the weights of the two combos (including batteries but without tripod collars):

E-3 + 150/2: 890 g + 1,465 g = 2,355 g
D700 + 300/4: 1,075g + 1,300g = 2,375 g

Pick the one you like best ;-)

Finally, and just for fun, the Sigma 100-400 mm f/4 is $1,573 from the same dealer saving another couple of hundred bucks over the 300/4.
 
plzz no lies atleast ;-)

1) I travel a lot so I'm happy with my combo

e+3 +12-60+fl50R (1700$!!) + 70-300 zuiko (370$) = 2070$, I whould head for e-620 but I realy need water resistence :P, (canoying, rafting, lot's of trips with hard rain, rainforest including ....), If u can finde me a better quivalent in nikkon I will switch easy ;-)

So the price of e-3 can't be 1900$ whan I both e-3+12-60 +fl50R for 1700$, if u whant I will sell u my e-3 for 1900$ ;-)

Weight
D700 (1074g) + 300mm f4 (1,440g) =2514g

e-3 (890g) + 150mm f2 (1350g) = 2240g , but wait e-3 is weather sealed has articuladed display and and u should compare e-620 with d700 ;-) witch is only 515g so 1865g v 2514g or e-30 witch is 665g

agree in 1 point, If I whould be payed for shooting concerts I whould head for FF.
 
and sigma 100-400 f4???? do u mean sigma 100-300 f4??? if yes the lens is year's beheand zuiko 150 f2 or nikkor 300mm f4 in optical quality ....
 
and sigma 100-400 f4???? do u mean sigma 100-300 f4???
Yes, I mean the 100-300.
if yes the lens is year's beheand zuiko 150 f2 or nikkor 300mm f4 in optical quality ....
I'll take your word for that.

I'll never be the owner of any of the prime lenses under discussion here. The only Nikon equipment I own is a 35 mm scanner.
 
plzz no lies atleast ;-)
???
So the price of e-3 can't be 1900$ whan I both e-3+12-60 +fl50R for 1700$, if u whant I will sell u my e-3 for 1900$ ;-)
Have a look yourself (E-3 body only):
http://www.kamerahuset.dk/product/12692/ DKK 10,395 (=$1,974)
http://vefafoto.dk/product.asp?product=2281 DKK 9,240 (=$1,755)

The one on vefafoto.dk is on sale now. It used to be DKK 11,510 (=$2,186) which is why I did not use their price for the earlier calculations; the kamerahuset.dk prices are generally the lowest I have come across in my country.

As for the weights of the cameras and lenses, my sources were dpreview, four-thirds.org, and Nikon. If they are wrong, hey, how should I know?
u should compare e-620 with d700 ;-) witch is only 515g so 1865g v 2514g or e-30 witch is 665g
Now your are talking. Except the D700 is sealed against dust and moisture. As are most FF cameras (the 5D being one of the few exceptions).

Back to the two Olys, just to round things off. The E-620 body only can be had for DKK 4,495 and DKK 4,709 from the two dealers, respectively. Likewise E-30 body only for DKK 7,895 and DKK 7,110 (down from 8,275).

In USD: $854, $894, $1,499, $1,350, and $1,572.
 
OLY Long SHG len prices should come down, and High iso performance should improve.

Olympus does need to improve High Iso performance (and probably will) ... and lower the AA.
  • Just wish the SHG Long lens prices would come down.
OLY does need the Fast Glass to keep up.

It will be interesting to see Olympus improve the High iso performance (and sharpness) enough to close down the gap.

My bet is, Technology can close the "useful gap" ... and the f2 lens can take it the rest of the way.

But, Olympus needs to bring down the prices of those f2 lens so it can get into the hands of more users.

HG
Well sure we don't have a 150mm lens f1.4, so we simply can't achieve shot's like that on the link and I think d700 at ISO10000 beat oly on ISO2500, but can this shots satisfide the price difference???

but e-3 1000$ 150mm f2.0 2200$ = 3200$
D700 2200$ 300mm f2.8 6000$ = 8200$
Whether the shots can justify the price difference is something I can't answer, of course. But I thought it was fun to compare with the prices from somewhere else where everything is more expensive in general but Oly stuff in particular (converted to USD using google):

E-3 body @ $1,974 + ZD 150 mm f/2 @ $3,324 = $5,298
D700 body @ $2,981 + Nikkor 300 mm f/2.8 @ $7,026 = $10,007

Still quite a difference, but what if we level the field and pick a cheaper lens that is still capable of producing pictures on the D700 equivalent to the ZD 150/2?

D700 body @ $2,981 + Nikkor 300 mm f/4 @ $1,994 = $4,975

Did you notice that? The D700 with Nikkor 300/4 is actually about $320 cheaper than the E-3 with ZD 150/2 combo?

What we are discussing here is, in other words, a Nikon based system capable of taking pictures no Oly can, costing almost, but not quite, twice as much. Or a Nikon one corresponding to the best Oly one for about six percent less money.

Let's say we decide that the prices of the Oly system and the cheaper Nikon option are close enough to not be the deciding factor. Let's look at the weights of the two combos (including batteries but without tripod collars):

E-3 + 150/2: 890 g + 1,465 g = 2,355 g
D700 + 300/4: 1,075g + 1,300g = 2,375 g

Pick the one you like best ;-)

Finally, and just for fun, the Sigma 100-400 mm f/4 is $1,573 from the same dealer saving another couple of hundred bucks over the 300/4.
--

Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots' :)

Love f2 Oly lens wide open ... 14-35mm f2, & a 50mm f2+1.4TC is my fav. combo on two 'IS' oly bodys.
 
plzz no lies atleast ;-)
???
So the price of e-3 can't be 1900$ whan I both e-3+12-60 +fl50R for 1700$, if u whant I will sell u my e-3 for 1900$ ;-)
Have a look yourself (E-3 body only):
http://www.kamerahuset.dk/product/12692/ DKK 10,395 (=$1,974)
http://vefafoto.dk/product.asp?product=2281 DKK 9,240 (=$1,755)

The one on vefafoto.dk is on sale now. It used to be DKK 11,510 (=$2,186) which is why I did not use their price for the earlier calculations; the kamerahuset.dk prices are generally the lowest I have come across in my country.

As for the weights of the cameras and lenses, my sources were dpreview, four-thirds.org, and Nikon. If they are wrong, hey, how should I know?
u should compare e-620 with d700 ;-) witch is only 515g so 1865g v 2514g or e-30 witch is 665g
Now your are talking. Except the D700 is sealed against dust and moisture. As are most FF cameras (the 5D being one of the few exceptions).
unlike the lenses, what is the point if the lenses are not sealed
Back to the two Olys, just to round things off. The E-620 body only can be had for DKK 4,495 and DKK 4,709 from the two dealers, respectively. Likewise E-30 body only for DKK 7,895 and DKK 7,110 (down from 8,275).

In USD: $854, $894, $1,499, $1,350, and $1,572.
how completely deceptive from this FF apologist

picks some economic backwater left behind since the Napoleonic forays, and converts to US$

B&H US$ body only
D700 $2999 - $300 rebate
E3 $1250
E620 $570
E30 $950

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı
 
It will be interesting to see Olympus improve the High iso performance (and sharpness) enough to close down the gap.
The gap to FF with its inherent two stop advantage? You are dreaming.
My bet is, Technology can close the "useful gap" ... and the f2 lens can take it the rest of the way.
No, because the f/2 lenses do no better than reach parity with f/4 lenses on FF. And the number of f/2.8 lenses on FF is legion. You need f/1.4 to match them on Four-Thirds.
But, Olympus needs to bring down the prices of those f2 lens so it can get into the hands of more users.
Long lenses that open to f/2 are expensive to produce regardless of brand. The Oly concept is not very competitive at the high end. It cannot be for reasons of simple geometry.
 
Regarding light, f2 is f2 is f2 in a lense. A LX3 f2 lense has the same light density (not amount) as an FF f2 lense (not considering DOF).

FF has a 2-3 stop advantage over smaller sensors (perhaps 4 concerning older Oly sensors).

So with FF you can use a f4 lense and have the same noise/light performance (or 1 stop better) than with an Olympus f2 lense. But you "lose" the sensor advantage (considering an Nikon f4 equal to an Olympus f2 is the sensor advantage).

What you do not get is a lense advantage and an ISO advantage. Choose one of them.

As an sidenote: In a country with a decent currency (EUR) an E3 is $1400.

Cheers
Stephan
 
how completely deceptive from this FF apologist
I am nothing of the kind.
picks some economic backwater left behind since the Napoleonic forays, and converts to US$
Oh, there you go again about economic backwaters. I didn't get to answer you last time because of the 150 message limit.

I use the prices that are relevant to me , just like others use the ones that are relevant to them. I have to deal with several facts of life: (1) that according to Eurostat consumer prices are 41% higher than the EU average where I live when adjusted in various ways to make the comparison valid, (2) Olympus for some reason think prices should be extra high compared to their competitors, (3) our local sales tax is 25% on everything, (4) our costums service is rather efficient at collecting it on stuff you import and charging you a fee for the service, (5) our postal service do their utmost to help them, (6) carriers like UPS charge you even more on delivery just because they can, and (7) good luck on getting anybody to honor guarantees on anything they didn't sell you themselves.
B&H US$ body only
D700 $2999 - $300 rebate
E3 $1250
E620 $570
E30 $950
Good for the Americans. How are those items priced down under?

As for living in an economic backwater, well I am in one of the countries colored red below on the map of purcasing power parity. You are not.

 
Regarding light, f2 is f2 is f2 in a lense. A LX3 f2 lense has the same light density (not amount) as an FF f2 lense (not considering DOF).
If you do not consider DoF, you are comparing apples and oranges.
FF has a 2-3 stop advantage over smaller sensors (perhaps 4 concerning older Oly sensors).
Assuming similar technology, FF has a two stop advantage over 4/3. It is down to geometry, pure and simple. With dissimilar technology all bets are off. A Kodak SLR/c is outperformed above base ISO by just about any digital camera.
So with FF you can use a f4 lense and have the same noise/light performance (or 1 stop better) than with an Olympus f2 lense.
You seem to be getting it after all.

And you don't just get what you call the same noise/light performance (which, by the way, requires you to raise the ISO two stops if you want the same shutter speed), you actually get the same picture. How much more equivalent can it get?
But you "lose" the sensor advantage (considering an Nikon f4 equal to an Olympus f2 is the sensor advantage).
The FF sensor advantage is that it can go where no 4/3 sensor can. The opposite is not true. The 4/3 advantage is that the sensors are far cheaper to produce than FF; a very good reason to pick one - just don't kid yourself about its capabilities.
What you do not get is a lense advantage and an ISO advantage. Choose one of them.
There is no such thing as an ISO advantage given similar technology when we are talking about the set of pictures both systems can take. Just as 4/3 has no DoF advantage, the widespread legend to the contrary.

What is different is that the set of pictures FF can take is a super-set of those 4/3 can take.
As an sidenote: In a country with a decent currency (EUR) an E3 is $1400.
Good for you.
 
Then we had a misunderstanding, sorry for that. U thought your post implied that FF has a lens (f/4 vs f/2) and a two stop advantage (you just did repeat your argument, it wasn't meant as two arguments).

1.) "The gap to FF with its inherent two stop advantage? You are dreaming."

2.) "No, because the f/2 lenses do no better than reach parity with f/4 lenses on FF. And the number of f/2.8 lenses on FF is legion. You need f/1.4 to match them on Four-Thirds."

Cheers
Stephan
 
Fotogejst wrote:

The Oly concept is not very competitive at the high end. It cannot be for reasons of simple geometry.

can u explain this a bit more???

High end = blured pictures with low DOF???? If u whould print that pictures u posted as example on a A3 it whould be too unsharp cos of low DOF, u whould rather accept more noeise ;-) And totaly pointless for the mass DSLR buyers .....

At the start of photography we had huge systems witch get smaller and smaller with time , down to FF. Rumors say's the new canon 1D will be APS-C size. 1 Day FF will become what medium format (yama, haseblad) atm is. Expensive tools for top profi . Expensive, becouse too few will sell.

Most shots on film camera was on F8-11 so for me 4/3 is definitly the right system :)
I have f1.2 50mm OM for portrates tho ;-)
 

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