Help with flash for em-5!

[hybert46]

Hi everyone,

I am considering buying a small flash unit that I could use with my em-5 for event photography (not paid work just private gathering with friends or macrophotography). Basically, I would use the flash mostly directly on-camera in a bouncing configuration. It is important for me that it can tilt and flip but it should not be too big and heavy. I might use it once in a while in a off-camera setting. I have never really worked with a proper flash unit and it is therefore important for me to have a simple setup (I guess TTL is the simplest metering configuration). The FL600r looks very tempting and easy to use. I like the size, the tilt and turn unit and the way the radio control works with the little flash unit that comes with the em-5 (without the little flash actually interfering in the final exposure). The only problem is the prize. I find 300 € to be a bit expensive for my first real flash unit. So here are my questions:

Is it the right flash for me?

Are there other flash unit that can do the same in a similar package?

What about metz flashes, is there an equivalent to the FL-600r?

Am I correct to say that without RC control, the little flash from the em-5 would have to trigger the other flash (is it the slave-master flash configuration?) and that it would actually interfere with the final image (even if the flash is very weak)?

Thank you everyone for your help.

Simon

 

[Guy Parsons]

hybert46 wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am considering buying a small flash unit that I could use with my em-5 for event photography (not paid work just private gathering with friends or macrophotography). Basically, I would use the flash mostly directly on-camera in a bouncing configuration. It is important for me that it can tilt and flip but it should not be too big and heavy. I might use it once in a while in a off-camera setting. I have never really worked with a proper flash unit and it is therefore important for me to have a simple setup (I guess TTL is the simplest metering configuration). The FL600r looks very tempting and easy to use. I like the size, the tilt and turn unit and the way the radio control works with the little flash unit that comes with the em-5 (without the little flash actually interfering in the final exposure). The only problem is the prize. I find 300 € to be a bit expensive for my first real flash unit. So here are my questions:

Is it the right flash for me?

Probably, it is as flexible and configured to satisfy about all normal needs. In my case my older FL-36R fulfils my more enthusiastic flash needs.

Are there other flash unit that can do the same in a similar package?

My default flash for my E-PL5 is the little FL-300R, it bends back for bounce, up straight for direct, forward a bit for closeup, and folds down flat forward and turns off when in "storage" position. No twist sideways position, no FP mode. Tall enough to avoid lens shadows.

Not as powerful as FL-600R of course but surprisingly good when you up the ISO to 400 or 800 or whatever you can endure. Much easier to carry if only occasionally needing a flash.

What about metz flashes, is there an equivalent to the FL-600r?

Ummm, you need to dig in the Metz web pages http://www.metz.de/en/flash-units/product-ranges/system-flash-units.html and look for M4/3 or 4/3 or Olympus/Panasonic compatibility.

Am I correct to say that without RC control, the little flash from the em-5 would have to trigger the other flash (is it the slave-master flash configuration?) and that it would actually interfere with the final image (even if the flash is very weak)?

Without RC control the add-on flash can be set to manual power, probably down to 1/128 power like my E-PL5 can do and that can be used to trigger the dumb slave mode of many flashes and also the FL-600R in its dumb slave mode.

The add-on flash contribution can be significant even from the RC control if large aperture, high ISO and close distance. Lessened dramatically by deflecting the flash from the subject with some paper or aluminium foil in the way.

Regards....... Guy

 

[astone]

hybert46 wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am considering buying a small flash unit that I could use with my em-5 for event photography (not paid work just private gathering with friends or macrophotography). Basically, I would use the flash mostly directly on-camera in a bouncing configuration. It is important for me that it can tilt and flip but it should not be too big and heavy. I might use it once in a while in a off-camera setting. I have never really worked with a proper flash unit and it is therefore important for me to have a simple setup (I guess TTL is the simplest metering configuration). The FL600r looks very tempting and easy to use. I like the size, the tilt and turn unit and the way the radio control works with the little flash unit that comes with the em-5 (without the little flash actually interfering in the final exposure). The only problem is the prize. I find 300 € to be a bit expensive for my first real flash unit. So here are my questions:

Is it the right flash for me?

Are there other flash unit that can do the same in a similar package?

What about metz flashes, is there an equivalent to the FL-600r?

Am I correct to say that without RC control, the little flash from the em-5 would have to trigger the other flash (is it the slave-master flash configuration?) and that it would actually interfere with the final image (even if the flash is very weak)?

Thank you everyone for your help.

Simon

--
Simon
Flickr favorites: http://flic.kr/s/aHsjkypfZu
E-M5, 7.5mm fisheye, 9-18mm, 12mm, 20mm, 45mm

Someone will definitely argue with me but I'm using Olympus FL-20. It is small and it has enough power for my purpose and it is not expensive. You may get it for less than $100. I also have FL-36R and found over and over it iwas not worth to use it in majority of my photo application.

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-FL-20-Electronic-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000099103

Loading…

www.ebay.com

--
ABS

 

[DP13Photo]

Someone will definitely argue with me but I'm using Olympus FL-20. It is small and it has enough power for my purpose and it is not expensive. You may get it for less than $100. I also have FL-36R and found over and over it iwas not worth to use it in majority of my photo application.

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-FL-20-Electronic-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000099103

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&rt=nc&_nkw=Olympus+FL-20+Flash

 

[Skeeterbytes]

As I already owned the FL36R I use it to good effect Won't support video, of course, but it doesn't overwhelm the little camera physically, has decent recycle times (using NiMH cells) and is quite flexible.

Confess I don't know the newer units, but if one were available at a good price I don't think you can go wrong with the 36R.

Cheers,

Rick

 

[DelK]

I also use the FL-36R, as well as Metz 50 AF-1, which supports remote use. If you use the R versions with the small included flash you will become a believer in off-camera flash. Very easy.

 

[Alumna Gorp]

If your thinking of bouncing get the largest and most powerful flash you can afford.

And if your serious about flash your not going to want to use it attached to the hot shoe so size is not important anyway, use an off camera ttl cord, it often a whole lot quicker to set up and use than setting up for a wireless connection.

 

[hybert46]

Thank you everyone for your help and comments, it is much appreciated.

Of course I have now one thousand additional questions for you ;-). I have just started to realize how much possibilites flash units do offer. Recently, I have watched this very interesting video of Neil van Niekerk:

The use of a on-camera bouncing flash seems to be an incredibly versatile technique and I really would like to start to experiment with it.

The FL-300r seems very nice and tiny but I am afraid it will be a bit limiting in terms of orientation of the flash unit and I don't see myself holding it in one hand and shooting with the other (of course I could just place the FL-300r on a table next to the subject but then it becomes quickly complicated to set-up).

Therefore, I think the FL-600r or the FL-36r or any equivalent flash unit (maybe the Metz 44 AF-1) would be quite a good fit. I still have a few questions though:

- I cannot really figure out what are the main difference between these three flashes (except the video light and the recycling time). Would they all work in RC mode and TTL metering?

- What is the main difference between Rc mode and slave-commander mode?

- Would I be able to control the main parameters directly from the em-5 or do they require independent manual setting of the flash unit when used off camera?

- I still have an old olympus E-30 that I use once in a while (rather as a backup camera with the 12-60mm). I don't really plan to use the flash unit with this camera but who knows. It seems the Fl-600r is not fully compatible with the E-30. Can I still use it directly on-camera or would it be only for off-camera use trigger by the internal flash-unit?

Thanks again for your help,

Simon

--

Simon
Flickr favorites: http://flic.kr/s/aHsjkypfZu
E-M5, 7.5mm fisheye, 9-18mm, 12mm, 20mm, 45mm

 

[berni29]

Hi

Yes, Neil is great with the on camera bounce. Because of him I now have an FL600R as well as my FL36R. The FL600R is a really nice flash and goes so well with the EM5.

All the best

Berni

 

[hybert46]

Hi Berni,

Thanks for your comment. Very interesting to know that you have both. Could you please very shortly explain to me what the Fl-600R can do that the Fl-36R cannot? I still have a hard time to figure out what is the real difference between these two flash units. Is the Fl-36R not compatible for direct on-camera with the m43 system?

Simon

 

[Guy Parsons]

hybert46 wrote:

Thank you everyone for your help and comments, it is much appreciated.

Of course I have now one thousand additional questions for you ;-). I have just started to realize how much possibilites flash units do offer. Recently, I have watched this very interesting video of Neil van Niekerk:

The use of a on-camera bouncing flash seems to be an incredibly versatile technique and I really would like to start to experiment with it.

The FL-300r seems very nice and tiny but I am afraid it will be a bit limiting in terms of orientation of the flash unit and I don't see myself holding it in one hand and shooting with the other (of course I could just place the FL-300r on a table next to the subject but then it becomes quickly complicated to set-up).

Therefore, I think the FL-600r or the FL-36r or any equivalent flash unit (maybe the Metz 44 AF-1) would be quite a good fit. I still have a few questions though:

- I cannot really figure out what are the main difference between these three flashes (except the video light and the recycling time). Would they all work in RC mode and TTL metering?

FL-36R uses 2 x AA batteries, FL-600R uses 4 x AA batteries thus has faster recycle times. Same output power though. FL-600R (or FL-LM1/2) can act as an RC control transmitter as well as a TTL flash when in the hot-shoe, FL-36R or FL-300R can't do that. Video light not on the FL-36R of course.

- What is the main difference between Rc mode and slave-commander mode?

RC mode can be TTL/Manual/Auto/FP mode.

Dumb slave mode is auto/manual and triggered by a single flash provided by using manual flash setting for the add-on or hot-shoe flash.

- Would I be able to control the main parameters directly from the em-5 or do they require independent manual setting of the flash unit when used off camera?

The RC menu allows full control TTL/Auto/Manual/FP in any mix on up to three groups of flashes and the "fourth" menu item is the hot-shoe or the FL-LM1/2 flash to be RC only or RC plus TTL/auto/manual. All controlled from the camera.

- I still have an old olympus E-30 that I use once in a while (rather as a backup camera with the 12-60mm). I don't really plan to use the flash unit with this camera but who knows. It seems the Fl-600r is not fully compatible with the E-30. Can I still use it directly on-camera or would it be only for off-camera use trigger by the internal flash-unit?

No idea about E-30 except to check the chart at http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/compati/e_system_flashes.cfm# I reckon it would work for hot-shoe TTL etc.

Regards...... Guy

 

[Guy Parsons]

hybert46 wrote:

Hi Berni,

Thanks for your comment. Very interesting to know that you have both. Could you please very shortly explain to me what the Fl-600R can do that the Fl-36R cannot?

FL-600R head twists both left and right, FL-36R one way twist only. Recycles faster, needs less battery changes, has video light, can do both RC transmit and TTL/Auto/manual/FP if needed when in the hotshoe.

I still have a hard time to figure out what is the real difference between these two flash units. Is the Fl-36R not compatible for direct on-camera with the m43 system?

The FL-36R works fine with M4/3, it just doesn't have those little extras of the FL-600R. I use it both in hotshoe and on extender cable and with RC control with E-PL1, E-P3 and E-PL5, also use as a dumb slave.

Regards....... Guy

 

[hybert46]

Thanks Guy for your double answer ;-)

I have to say, the flash technical language is still a bit of chinese for me. I still have a lot to learn but I think I have understood the basic differences. I will have a closer look at Metz flash units to see of they have an equivalent. Otherwise, I will try to find an incredible offer for a second-hand Fl-36r. If not, I will probably go for a brand new Fl-600r. It seems like a nice little flash unit.

Simon

 

[Jeff Tokayer]

Guy Parsons wrote:

hybert46 wrote:

Hi Berni,

Thanks for your comment. Very interesting to know that you have both. Could you please very shortly explain to me what the Fl-600R can do that the Fl-36R cannot?

FL-600R head twists both left and right, FL-36R one way twist only. Recycles faster, needs less battery changes, has video light, can do both RC transmit and TTL/Auto/manual/FP if needed when in the hotshoe.

My FL-36R twists 90 degrees to the right, and 180 degrees to the left.

I still have a hard time to figure out what is the real difference between these two flash units. Is the Fl-36R not compatible for direct on-camera with the m43 system?

The FL-36R works fine with M4/3, it just doesn't have those little extras of the FL-600R. I use it both in hotshoe and on extender cable and with RC control with E-PL1, E-P3 and E-PL5, also use as a dumb slave.

Regards....... Guy

 

[papillon_65]

I recommend one of these little flashes, although they don't work using TTL they are simplicity itself to use. They're cheap, can bounce flash no problem and have a great little locking function that makes it dead easy to quickly fix and remove the flash. Don't be put off about the TTL thing, it means they can be used easily on any camera and it'll sync as fast as your camera will go. On my Fuji's (X10/X-S1) we're talking thousands of a second. This flash is perfect as a small, light carry around unit with decent power. Oh, and the flash determines the power required (unless used in manual mode) and it does a pretty good job, you just tweak the aperture or ISO a stop or two to make slight adjustments to your lighting, easy peasy, it even has a little chart printed on the back.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metz-202209...TF8&qid=1370261400&sr=8-1&keywords=metz+20+c2

 

[hybert46]

Hi Tony,

This little flash seems indeed very interesting. I guess it could be a very good start to get familiar with flashes and experiment with bouncing setups, all that at a very fair price. I am just afraid that it is too low guide number for real bouncing technique. I actually really hate the light when the flash is directly lighting the subject from the top of my camera (except for fill-in).

Simon

 

[Paul De Bra]

I too prefer to use bounce flash. The amount of light you actually need with bounced flash is incredible so when you want to use it you need a very powerful flash, not a small one.

The Metz 58 is not all that expensive and has the ability to combine bounce flash with a tiny forward flash for some direct light too.

 

[papillon_65]

hybert46 wrote:

Hi Tony,

This little flash seems indeed very interesting. I guess it could be a very good start to get familiar with flashes and experiment with bouncing setups, all that at a very fair price. I am just afraid that it is too low guide number for real bouncing technique. I actually really hate the light when the flash is directly lighting the subject from the top of my camera (except for fill-in).

Simon

 

[papillon_65]

Paul De Bra wrote:

I too prefer to use bounce flash. The amount of light you actually need with bounced flash is incredible so when you want to use it you need a very powerful flash, not a small one.

That very much depends on what size room you're shooting in, and what aperture/focal length you're using. If you shoot manually and balance the light by shooting at a higher ISO you actually don't need a great big flash, unless the ceiling is pretty high. Of course the ambient light also makes a difference, there are a lot of variables involved.

The Metz 58 is not all that expensive and has the ability to combine bounce flash with a tiny forward flash for some direct light too.

--
Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

--
667....neighbour of the beast.
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

 

[daddyo]

I personally would highly recommend the FL-600R. All the other flashes recommended above are either too large, or are too weak -- with the exception of the FL-36R which is still larger than the FL-600R.

If you need extended flash range the FL-600R has more than ample power if you shoot at ISO 400, and with the E-M5 the images at that ISO are very clean. I have two E-M5's and two FL-600R's that I use for professional event work and have no problems.

God Bless,

Greg

www.imagismphotos.com

www.mccroskery.zenfolio.com

www.pbase.com/daddyo