Has Any One Else Noticed This Occuring!

[Bob Williams]

It is not just in these forums, or in forums themselves that
these things happen, and they should be expected.

One, after typing in the same thing 20 times, people stop
responding to those questions after a while. If the new comers
don't answer using the same thoughts that the original posters
that answered their questions explained to them, then you
get idea battles that come down to old and accepted, versus
a new twist on the same ideas. New equipment comes out.
Some of the old hands get left behind, and the newcomers
will often have different takes on things. This happens everywhere.

Two, and this is a more important thing than the first issues, a
community forms shaped by the original forum people and the
original content. People meet each other, share photo sessions,
and in general develop a relationship with each other. If not
watched closely, this causes the dreaded newcomer post not
being answered while at the same time several oldtimers are
happily posting back and forth about the health of their dogs.
This has already been mentioned in this thread.

Three, a knowledge base is formed that becomes resistant to
change of any kind, and may even require that everyone use the
accepted correct descriptions, or get jumped on. This is happening
all over DPR right now. A good example is the Field of view Crop
description, versus the older Multiplier description. All over the
board people are jumping in to correct people on this issue, based
solely on their own version of which is correct, when those same
people will not answer questions on other issues. I came to my
own decision about this issue some time ago by pointing my
camera down a road with white center stripes, focusing on one
of them, setting f2, and shooting an image with film and with
digital. This is no longer an accepted way of doing things in
many forums on several topics. You follow the current knowledge
bases conclusions, or you are automatically wrong. Once this
happens, on these issues, learning has stopped, for everyone.
People just leave.

These things are natural progressions, and they happen in clubs
of all kinds, forums of all kinds, and even in our schools. New
ideas and the discussions that either prove them correct, or
prove them wrong, are the life blood of any group where
learning is the goal. All to often these days, the new ideas get
either laughed at, or ignored.

And if we use light hearted humor to get the point across let it be
taken in that vain. And not respond with covert venom over
something whimsically given.>

Are U getin at me then?

What's so funny?

Covert venom - I thought this was desert at the local Chinese?

But if it is covert – how does one know then?

So what sort of mood am I in now replying to this?

No emoticon to give you a clue.

 

[Stephen Livick]

Hello Gerald

Good of you to respond has nothing to do with you you are one of my favorites on the forum don't you know that ; )

Stephen

And if we use light hearted humor to get the point across let it be
taken in that vain. And not respond with covert venom over
something whimsically given.>

Are U getin at me then?

What's so funny?

Covert venom - I thought this was desert at the local Chinese?

But if it is covert – how does one know then?

So what sort of mood am I in now replying to this?

No emoticon to give you a clue.

--On A Quest Seeking Vision! http://www.livick.com

 

[Stephen Livick]

Hello Bob

Good Post thanks for the insightfull thoughts, I think my original post was maturing for a while. Then I had several silly responses to one of my postings and thought I would mention something about it.

Some people are simply fooling around and not serious about their photography while others are living it as a way of life and have for years.

One thing I have noticed is that you can do about 2000 posts and still get quickly trashed by someone who is new to the forum and essentially still learning about photography. One really needs a thick skin to survive as no quarter seems to be given even from those who have been posting for a while themselves.

I think the internet allows this to happen as there is no human interaction and there are always those with out care who post impulsively. I have done it myself on some bad days which we all have, so I know about it. Perhaps those who post about 30 post a week are more prone to insults and jabs from the DPR peanuts gallery, simple law of averages and who knows they might even be deserved ; ) ; )

Stephen

One, after typing in the same thing 20 times, people stop
responding to those questions after a while. If the new comers
don't answer using the same thoughts that the original posters
that answered their questions explained to them, then you
get idea battles that come down to old and accepted, versus
a new twist on the same ideas. New equipment comes out.
Some of the old hands get left behind, and the newcomers
will often have different takes on things. This happens everywhere.

Two, and this is a more important thing than the first issues, a
community forms shaped by the original forum people and the
original content. People meet each other, share photo sessions,
and in general develop a relationship with each other. If not
watched closely, this causes the dreaded newcomer post not
being answered while at the same time several oldtimers are
happily posting back and forth about the health of their dogs.
This has already been mentioned in this thread.

Three, a knowledge base is formed that becomes resistant to
change of any kind, and may even require that everyone use the
accepted correct descriptions, or get jumped on. This is happening
all over DPR right now. A good example is the Field of view Crop
description, versus the older Multiplier description. All over the
board people are jumping in to correct people on this issue, based
solely on their own version of which is correct, when those same
people will not answer questions on other issues. I came to my
own decision about this issue some time ago by pointing my
camera down a road with white center stripes, focusing on one
of them, setting f2, and shooting an image with film and with
digital. This is no longer an accepted way of doing things in
many forums on several topics. You follow the current knowledge
bases conclusions, or you are automatically wrong. Once this
happens, on these issues, learning has stopped, for everyone.
People just leave.

These things are natural progressions, and they happen in clubs
of all kinds, forums of all kinds, and even in our schools. New
ideas and the discussions that either prove them correct, or
prove them wrong, are the life blood of any group where
learning is the goal. All to often these days, the new ideas get
either laughed at, or ignored.

And if we use light hearted humor to get the point across let it be
taken in that vain. And not respond with covert venom over
something whimsically given.>

Are U getin at me then?

What's so funny?

Covert venom - I thought this was desert at the local Chinese?

But if it is covert – how does one know then?

So what sort of mood am I in now replying to this?

No emoticon to give you a clue.

--On A Quest Seeking Vision! http://www.livick.com

 

[David62882]

At the risk of being redundant and/or evicerated, here's my opinion:

In my view there are at least three drivers at work: First, laziness. People post shallow questions in a lot of forums because they are too lazy to learn for themselves (or even read the documentation). They want the shortest path to "great pictures" possible without truly understanding that the pain of learning is part of the process.

Second, lack of civility. Forums provide cover for people who want to be rude and/or patronizing. Sometimes people are braver when they're anonymous.

Third, money doesn't buy brains or talent. I've seen many people drop thousands of dollars on equipment they do not have the patience to learn to use. They think that a $5000 camera body will take professional shots just because "it's the best". The proliferation of technically superb equipment enables companies to stay in business because it gives them volume. The downside of that, of course, is people asking silly questions or not taking the time to really learn the art/science of photography.

Now, having said all of that and getting down from my high-horse, I don't think it's all that bad. If you read a post that is silly, rude, or points to laziness, just don't respond. But I've seen plenty of sincere questions posted by beginners that do merit thoughtful responses.

Let's face it. We were all newbies at one point. And, in the grand continuum of our art, we'll always be newbies to someone else.

 

[Raul]

Stephen,

The forum is an open one. Sooo you find great artists, great photographers, not so great artists and photographers and all the way down the line.

You are totally right about what is happening: a question about when will the D4 appear and how much it will cost would not surprise me.

On the other hand, I have learned so much (at times following one of the lesser forums) that I would hate that the Big guys may dissapear. The guys who know and are generous to share their time and knowledge and experience (or simply: their work) deserve a big applause. And of course, without them, the forum is worth peanuts.

I hope that you and the big ones will hang on.
Regards
Raul