Getting true linear response in Camera Raw?

[Supisiche]

Hi. In RawTherapee I can set the working profile to 1.0 and it produces this effect:



The tone curve adjustment in DNG Profile Editor gives this, when set to linear:



If I apply "linear" and then a S curve (in DNG PE), the image looks almost the same to what it does in RT. I like having a 1.0 tone curve as a starting point and I would love to see a perfect result in Camera Raw. Any ideas? The inverse curve doesn't work well but a S shaped one gets close. Thanks

 

[ggbutcher]

I won't be able to tell you anything about ACR, but one thing to check is what profile was used for export in each software. Particularly, you're looking for the existence of a non-linear TRC in the profile, which would indicate the exported image was "curved" to that TRC...

 

[zzip]

you can use dcptool to modify a dcp camera profile = http://dcptool.sourceforge.net/Introduction.html

decompile

replace TonuCurve with

<ToneCurve Size="2">
<Element N="0" h="0.000000" v="0.000000"/>
<Element N="1" h="1.000000" v="1.000000"/>
</ToneCurve>

compile back

 

[Supisiche]

you can use dcptool to modify a dcp camera profile = http://dcptool.sourceforge.net/Introduction.html

decompile

replace TonuCurve with

<ToneCurve Size="2">
<Element N="0" h="0.000000" v="0.000000"/>
<Element N="1" h="1.000000" v="1.000000"/>
</ToneCurve>

compile back

I tried but It didn't work. The exported .dcp looks the same as before. It should be really dark (everything set at 0, process 2010 in Camera Raw). This is the xml:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<dcpData>
<ProfileName>LX2JAJA</ProfileName>
<CalibrationIlluminant1>17</CalibrationIlluminant1>
<CalibrationIlluminant2>21</CalibrationIlluminant2>
<ColorMatrix1 Rows="3" Cols="3">
<Element Row="2" Col="2">0.713600</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="1">0.139200</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="0">-0.073000</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="2">0.377700</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="1">1.142700</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="0">-0.471100</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="2">0.037600</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="1">-0.477900</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="0">0.978100</Element>
</ColorMatrix1>
<ColorMatrix2 Rows="3" Cols="3">
<Element Row="2" Col="2">0.704900</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="1">0.214600</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="0">-0.170000</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="2">0.327200</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="1">1.351900</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="0">-0.645000</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="2">-0.062300</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="1">-0.281000</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="0">0.804800</Element>
</ColorMatrix2>
<ForwardMatrix1 Rows="3" Cols="3">
<Element Row="2" Col="2">1.129000</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="1">-0.360100</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="0">0.056200</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="2">-0.168100</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="1">0.910200</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="0">0.257900</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="2">0.035600</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="1">0.271000</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="0">0.657700</Element>
</ForwardMatrix1>
<ForwardMatrix2 Rows="3" Cols="3">
<Element Row="2" Col="2">0.939600</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="1">-0.161300</Element>
<Element Row="2" Col="0">0.046700</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="2">-0.327800</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="1">1.033100</Element>
<Element Row="1" Col="0">0.294800</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="2">-0.081300</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="1">0.392900</Element>
<Element Row="0" Col="0">0.652700</Element>
</ForwardMatrix2>
<ReductionMatrix1 Rows="0" Cols="0"/>
<ReductionMatrix2 Rows="0" Cols="0"/>
<EmbedPolicy>0</EmbedPolicy>
<ProfileHueSatMapEncoding>0</ProfileHueSatMapEncoding>
<ToneCurve Size="2">
<Element N="0" h="0.000000" v="0.000000"/>
<Element N="1" h="1.000000" v="1.000000"/>
</ToneCurve>
<ProfileCalibrationSignature>com.adobe</ProfileCalibrationSignature>
<UniqueCameraModelRestriction>Panasonic DMC-LX2</UniqueCameraModelRestriction>
<ProfileLookTableEncoding>0</ProfileLookTableEncoding>
<BaselineExposureOffset>0.000000</BaselineExposureOffset>
<DefaultBlackRender>0</DefaultBlackRender>
</dcpData>

 

[Graham Meale]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

--
www.grahammeale.info

 

[Supisiche]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

 

[Graham Meale]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

Tone response curve?

Well, who'd've thunk it!

 

[Supisiche]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

Tone response curve?

Well, who'd've thunk it!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ggbutcher]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

Tone response curve?

Well, who'd've thunk it!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Apologies, I was doing a few different things at the time and just whipped off the response without considering the acronym.

"Tone Response Curve" is the winner, it's one of the two things contained in an ICC (International Color Consortium) profile to describe the state of the image, the other being the 3x3 matrix or LUT (Look Up Table) that describes how to get the color to/from XYZ (this is not an acronym... )

 

[Supisiche]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

Tone response curve?

Well, who'd've thunk it!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Apologies, I was doing a few different things at the time and just whipped off the response without considering the acronym.

"Tone Response Curve" is the winner, it's one of the two things contained in an ICC (International Color Consortium) profile to describe the state of the image, the other being the 3x3 matrix or LUT (Look Up Table) that describes how to get the color to/from XYZ (this is not an acronym... )

Hi. It seems to me that Adobe products apply a curve on top of camera profiles, following the display's settings in the operating system. When a linear 1.0 profile is selected in Windows, things looks darker in Camera Raw. It's funny because even Capture NX-2 can do what I want (such an old program). From CNX2's help file:

Choose the Apply Profile method to assign a profile to the current image. This option is most often used when you would like to assign an input profile, such as a profile you created for your camera, to the image.

The Convert to Profile method enables you to convert the profile space of the current image to the profile space of the output device. The result is that the actual color values change, but the appearance of those colors does not change on your monitor. This is due to the fact that you have simply changed the values to ensure that the output device will produce the same colors that you see within the limitations of that output device.

A workaround is to manually draw a curve (in DNG PE) that somewhat fulfills my desires.

 

[ggbutcher]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

Tone response curve?

Well, who'd've thunk it!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Apologies, I was doing a few different things at the time and just whipped off the response without considering the acronym.

"Tone Response Curve" is the winner, it's one of the two things contained in an ICC (International Color Consortium) profile to describe the state of the image, the other being the 3x3 matrix or LUT (Look Up Table) that describes how to get the color to/from XYZ (this is not an acronym... )

Hi. It seems to me that Adobe products apply a curve on top of camera profiles, following the display's settings in the operating system. When a linear 1.0 profile is selected in Windows, things looks darker in Camera Raw. It's funny because even Capture NX-2 can do what I want (such an old program). From CNX2's help file:

Choose the Apply Profile method to assign a profile to the current image. This option is most often used when you would like to assign an input profile, such as a profile you created for your camera, to the image.

The Convert to Profile method enables you to convert the profile space of the current image to the profile space of the output device. The result is that the actual color values change, but the appearance of those colors does not change on your monitor. This is due to the fact that you have simply changed the values to ensure that the output device will produce the same colors that you see within the limitations of that output device.

A workaround is to manually draw a curve (in DNG PE) that somewhat fulfills my desires.

One of the reasons I ended up writing my own software - I wanted to be able to tease apart the workflow so I could explicitly understand what was happening at each step from the data out of the file to a pleasing rendition. Even then, I had to make sure I remembered that at export, another color and tone transform was being done to make the image conform to the needs of the display, or to what most folk expect in a JPEG...

 

[Supisiche]

Do tell. I looked it up and there are 107 possibilities. Truth & Reconciliation Commission? Tamworth Regional Council?

Tone response curve?

Well, who'd've thunk it!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Apologies, I was doing a few different things at the time and just whipped off the response without considering the acronym.

"Tone Response Curve" is the winner, it's one of the two things contained in an ICC (International Color Consortium) profile to describe the state of the image, the other being the 3x3 matrix or LUT (Look Up Table) that describes how to get the color to/from XYZ (this is not an acronym... )

Hi. It seems to me that Adobe products apply a curve on top of camera profiles, following the display's settings in the operating system. When a linear 1.0 profile is selected in Windows, things looks darker in Camera Raw. It's funny because even Capture NX-2 can do what I want (such an old program). From CNX2's help file:

Choose the Apply Profile method to assign a profile to the current image. This option is most often used when you would like to assign an input profile, such as a profile you created for your camera, to the image.

The Convert to Profile method enables you to convert the profile space of the current image to the profile space of the output device. The result is that the actual color values change, but the appearance of those colors does not change on your monitor. This is due to the fact that you have simply changed the values to ensure that the output device will produce the same colors that you see within the limitations of that output device.

A workaround is to manually draw a curve (in DNG PE) that somewhat fulfills my desires.

One of the reasons I ended up writing my own software - I wanted to be able to tease apart the workflow so I could explicitly understand what was happening at each step from the data out of the file to a pleasing rendition. Even then, I had to make sure I remembered that at export, another color and tone transform was being done to make the image conform to the needs of the display, or to what most folk expect in a JPEG...

It's a bit of a mess haha つ ◕_◕༽つ

 

[Supisiche]

Problem solved. I changed the color profile (to a linear one) inside Photoshop's preferences. In theory it's the same exact option present in Camera Raw (or development module). A linear profile changes the histogram (RAW processing) in the expected way (moving it to the left) but my issue was that PS did not show a visible change in the actual image. Now I don't need to change the display profile (Windows) to linear sRGB or whatever.

When all editing is finished (inside PS), the output profile must be set to a normal, non linear one (and it looks like crap in PS but the final image it's actually ok and just like we edited it). One more thing: a small glitch...






Black background!

 

[idontpostmuch]

Maybe take a look a this.

 

[Supisiche]

Maybe take a look a this.

I did that. Thanks