Getting sharp images from D850?

Pixel boy

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Having used the D850 for about 4 weeks and used various focul lengths I am finding that my hit rate on tack sharp images is not as good as I imagined. I am using the Tamron 24-70 G2 and shooting at around 1/160 at say 70mm and 200-500 f5.6. But reading the article below it looks like you may need up to 4 times the normal SP to get tack sharp images from the D850?

Has anyone got any images you can upload where shots have been taken handheld at reasonble SP's?

This is an extract from the article in question.

Another factor when it comes to image quality, which was the case with the D810 as well, is how you handle the camera. The D850 isn’t a standard 35mm DSLR. You can’t think of this as a “run-and-gun-it” style camera like the Nikon D5 or any other sub 24 MP camera. The D810 was comparable to a 4×5 film camera in terms of resolution. The D850 is somewhere between a 4×5 camera and an 8×10 camera in terms of resolution. Because of this much higher shutter speeds are required when handholding the camera to get sharp images. When was the last time you saw someone handholding a 4×5 camera? Think of the Nikon D850 as an 8×10 field camera and you’ll get the best image quality out of it. If you are shooting handheld, I highly recommend shooting with a minimum shutter speed at least four or five times the focal length. For example, if I am shooting with my trusty 24-70mm f/2.8 zoom, the bare minimum shutter speed I would handhold that lens at would be 1/250th second and even that would be dicey in terms of getting a tack sharp image. With my Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8, I wouldn’t dream of handholding that lens at anything less than 1/800th second–even with the Vibration Reduction on. If I want to assure tack sharp images with the 70-200 I aim for 1/1,000th second or faster shutter speeds, more likely 1/1,500th sec or higher. To get tack sharp images at lower shutter speeds the D850 would need in-body stabilization like that found in it’s mirrorless counterparts.

For landscape photography, Nikon has done an excellent job reducing the shutter bounce and vibration in the D850. But, with that said, you will need to lock this puppy down on a serious tripod if you expect to get tack-sharp images at any shutter speed below 1/125th second. And by serious, I mean a beefy heavy duty tripod. None of those wimpy tripods with extendable top tubes need apply. I use the same Gitzo GT5541LS tripod that I use with my Hasselblad when shooting landscapes with the D850, and I also use a large ballhead to make sure everything is locked down tightly. For the best results, just as with my D810, I also use the mirror up option along with Exposure Delay mode (3s) and the Electronic front-curtain shutter mode to eliminate any vibration.




The problem is most likely user error, and maybe I need to tighten up on my technique but with less MP I appear to have a higher hit rate.





When you nail it
When you nail it



When you don't!
When you don't!

This is more typical of how sharp my images were



158b934e6e0b412a87845619cdbaf4af.jpg

More typical lower resolution shots

d99978de49fa4a05b50d5b7ef08fefca.jpg



01615716813c4d468f8418d034f81376.jpg
 
Having used the D850 for about 4 weeks and used various focul lengths I am finding that my hit rate on tack sharp images is not as good as I imagined. I am using the Tamron 24-70 G2 and shooting at around 1/160 at say 70mm and 200-500 f5.6. But reading the article below it looks like you may need up to 4 times the normal SP to get tack sharp images from the D850?

Has anyone got any images you can upload where shots have been taken handheld at reasonble SP's?

This is an extract from the article in question.

Another factor when it comes to image quality, which was the case with the D810 as well, is how you handle the camera. The D850 isn’t a standard 35mm DSLR. You can’t think of this as a “run-and-gun-it” style camera like the Nikon D5 or any other sub 24 MP camera. The D810 was comparable to a 4×5 film camera in terms of resolution. The D850 is somewhere between a 4×5 camera and an 8×10 camera in terms of resolution. Because of this much higher shutter speeds are required when handholding the camera to get sharp images. When was the last time you saw someone handholding a 4×5 camera? Think of the Nikon D850 as an 8×10 field camera and you’ll get the best image quality out of it. If you are shooting handheld, I highly recommend shooting with a minimum shutter speed at least four or five times the focal length. For example, if I am shooting with my trusty 24-70mm f/2.8 zoom, the bare minimum shutter speed I would handhold that lens at would be 1/250th second and even that would be dicey in terms of getting a tack sharp image. With my Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8, I wouldn’t dream of handholding that lens at anything less than 1/800th second–even with the Vibration Reduction on. If I want to assure tack sharp images with the 70-200 I aim for 1/1,000th second or faster shutter speeds, more likely 1/1,500th sec or higher. To get tack sharp images at lower shutter speeds the D850 would need in-body stabilization like that found in it’s mirrorless counterparts.
The resolution of the D850 is sqrt(45/24) - 1 = 37% more than the D5.

The resolution of the D850 is sqrt(45/36) - 1 = 12% more than the D810.

If the D810 were comparable to a 4x5 film camera (iffy, but lets go with it), the D850 would be comparable to a 4.48x5.6 camera.

BFD? I don't think so.

Jim
 
Shooting a 36 or 46mp camera will tend to make you up your game if you haven't already. 1/4x focal length? Sounds a bit high to me, unless trying to freeze subject motion as much as camera motion.

Study long lens technique, and use those techniques. Results will be sharp, if in focus.
 
IMO when sharp images are important and depending on subject matter and if the subject is moving or can potentially move I want the smallest F stop possible.

If this means I need ND filters ok...

If I need a tripod Yep gotta do it.

Next, is choosing the correct metering patten I truly think this matters in how the camera reacts.

Practice the tracking shot on your tripod if the camera is moving or if handheld technique is even more crucial. On a tripod it is easier to adjust the Drag you need.

Be sure your batteries are good and in colder weather performance could slow and things just act differently.

Sometimes a little fill flash may help again depends on what is going on... to achieve sharp results.

Back to F stop.... You may need to up ISO to get the F-stop and shutter speeds you need and again a filter may be needed

**

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:



a2d21478fb6544e1bb34b05e3f78e694.jpg.png



Jim

--
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
'Twas a joke among nerds haha...technically the MC-30 is a remote release and technically an old school cable release threads into the shutter. Some of the retro cams like the Fuji X100 series have threads for a cable release but, honestly, I'm pretty cool if that tech is left to the dustbin of history. Installing a cable release on my Sony RX1 frequently resulted in the whole shutter button popping off when the release was depressed.
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:
Where are you attaching a mechanical AR3 release to the D850... Usually this goes into the shutter button...
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:
Where are you attaching a mechanical AR3 release to the D850... Usually this goes into the shutter button..
... You don't say, hence the joke...
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:
Where are you attaching a mechanical AR3 release to the D850... Usually this goes into the shutter button...
That's what make it so hard to attach to the D850. Takes a lot of gaffer tape. :-)



--
 
Having used the D850 for about 4 weeks and used various focul lengths I am finding that my hit rate on tack sharp images is not as good as I imagined. I am using the Tamron 24-70 G2 and shooting at around 1/160 at say 70mm and 200-500 f5.6. But reading the article below it looks like you may need up to 4 times the normal SP to get tack sharp images from the D850?

Has anyone got any images you can upload where shots have been taken handheld at reasonble SP's?

This is an extract from the article in question.

Another factor when it comes to image quality, which was the case with the D810 as well, is how you handle the camera. The D850 isn’t a standard 35mm DSLR. You can’t think of this as a “run-and-gun-it” style camera like the Nikon D5 or any other sub 24 MP camera. The D810 was comparable to a 4×5 film camera in terms of resolution. The D850 is somewhere between a 4×5 camera and an 8×10 camera in terms of resolution. Because of this much higher shutter speeds are required when handholding the camera to get sharp images. When was the last time you saw someone handholding a 4×5 camera? Think of the Nikon D850 as an 8×10 field camera and you’ll get the best image quality out of it. If you are shooting handheld, I highly recommend shooting with a minimum shutter speed at least four or five times the focal length. For example, if I am shooting with my trusty 24-70mm f/2.8 zoom, the bare minimum shutter speed I would handhold that lens at would be 1/250th second and even that would be dicey in terms of getting a tack sharp image. With my Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8, I wouldn’t dream of handholding that lens at anything less than 1/800th second–even with the Vibration Reduction on. If I want to assure tack sharp images with the 70-200 I aim for 1/1,000th second or faster shutter speeds, more likely 1/1,500th sec or higher. To get tack sharp images at lower shutter speeds the D850 would need in-body stabilization like that found in it’s mirrorless counterparts.

For landscape photography, Nikon has done an excellent job reducing the shutter bounce and vibration in the D850. But, with that said, you will need to lock this puppy down on a serious tripod if you expect to get tack-sharp images at any shutter speed below 1/125th second. And by serious, I mean a beefy heavy duty tripod. None of those wimpy tripods with extendable top tubes need apply. I use the same Gitzo GT5541LS tripod that I use with my Hasselblad when shooting landscapes with the D850, and I also use a large ballhead to make sure everything is locked down tightly. For the best results, just as with my D810, I also use the mirror up option along with Exposure Delay mode (3s) and the Electronic front-curtain shutter mode to eliminate any vibration.

http://blog.michaelclarkphoto.com/?p=6391

The problem is most likely user error, and maybe I need to tighten up on my technique but with less MP I appear to have a higher hit rate.

When you nail it
When you nail it

When you don't!
When you don't!

This is more typical of how sharp my images were

158b934e6e0b412a87845619cdbaf4af.jpg

More typical lower resolution shots

d99978de49fa4a05b50d5b7ef08fefca.jpg

01615716813c4d468f8418d034f81376.jpg
after about 5 months (got mine Sept 7th), it seems that I am getting the same observed results as yours....I think its not as much as you need higher shutter speed, its more like you need better optics as well..I have used 3 Tamrons 150-600 G1 and G2 and 90mm SP Macro and I find them to be slightly less sharp than my Nikon 14-24G, 24-70G and 70-200VRII. I believe that my Nikon trinity has a higher resolution optics than my Tamrons...here is a sample shot from my D850+70-200VRII..





Note that my Tamrons works great with my D500, D750 and D800e, here is a sample:







--
 

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I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:
Where are you attaching a mechanical AR3 release to the D850... Usually this goes into the shutter button..
... You don't say, hence the joke...
It seemed more like one did not know you cant use a mechanical shutter release than a joke. As I said a cable release and one would look for what works..... If the MC30a is not a cable release then what terminology is used instead... Since both are called cable releases far as I know....

But hey I dont find every comedian funny...

--
Dave Sanders
 
Having used the D850 for about 4 weeks and used various focul lengths I am finding that my hit rate on tack sharp images is not as good as I imagined. I am using the Tamron 24-70 G2 and shooting at around 1/160 at say 70mm and 200-500 f5.6. But reading the article below it looks like you may need up to 4 times the normal SP to get tack sharp images from the D850?
My advise is to stop reading this sort or misinformation and keep taking images to see what works for you.

From the images you show, I don't really see much of a problem. You wont get 100% keeper rate. From any camera.

The first gull shot looks fine. The second goose shot looks great to me. You can even count the barbs on a tiny feather lodged in its nostril! The eye is adequately sharp to my eyes too. The landing gull has clearly missed focus. Also there is a bit of movement blur. Could be camera, subject or VR if you left it on at that shutter speed - even at 1/2500 you can get movement blur if you stab the shutter and the subject is moving quickly. The perching bird looks rather poor quality IQ plus it appears to be a crop. Are you sure it is from a D850? The owl, again looks not to be from a D850 but looks very sharp to me and good for ISO3200.

In general it looks like you are using heavy compression somewhere along your processing workflow which reduces IQ somewhat. It may even be occuring at the DPR end once you have uploaded.

But overall it does not appear to me that you have anything to worry about. Just keep shooting!
When you nail it
When you nail it

When you don't!
When you don't!

This is more typical of how sharp my images were

158b934e6e0b412a87845619cdbaf4af.jpg

More typical lower resolution shots

d99978de49fa4a05b50d5b7ef08fefca.jpg

01615716813c4d468f8418d034f81376.jpg


--
Alistair Owens
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:
Where are you attaching a mechanical AR3 release to the D850... Usually this goes into the shutter button..
... You don't say, hence the joke...
It seemed more like one did not know you cant use a mechanical shutter release than a joke.
Jim's first post is pretty clearly a joke, smiley face and all. And besides, it's Jim.
As I said a cable release and one would look for what works..... If the MC30a is not a cable release then what terminology is used instead... Since both are called cable releases far as I know....
Remote (trigger) release:


And cable release:


But people do tend to use the terms interchangeably, hence Jim's subtle camera nerd joke.
But hey I dont find every comedian funny...
Indeed, to each their own.
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:
Where are you attaching a mechanical AR3 release to the D850... Usually this goes into the shutter button..
... You don't say, hence the joke...
It seemed more like one did not know you cant use a mechanical shutter release than a joke.
Jim's first post is pretty clearly a joke, smiley face and all. And besides, it's Jim.
As I said a cable release and one would look for what works..... If the MC30a is not a cable release then what terminology is used instead... Since both are called cable releases far as I know....
Remote (trigger) release:

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-p...ansmitters/mc-30a-remote-trigger-release.html

And cable release:

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/remote-cords/ar-3-threaded-cable-release.html

But people do tend to use the terms interchangeably, hence Jim's subtle camera nerd joke.
But hey I dont find every comedian funny...
Indeed, to each their own.
 
I

If sharp images is the number one a tripod is really a must have. A cable release is helpful as well
Good luck getting a cable release attached to your D850. :-)
Why ? I have one...

MC-30 A
That's an electronic remote release that provides a contact closure to the camera. They are much easier to attach than the rugged mechanical cable release like this Nikon AR3:
Where are you attaching a mechanical AR3 release to the D850... Usually this goes into the shutter button..
... You don't say, hence the joke...
It seemed more like one did not know you cant use a mechanical shutter release than a joke.
As proof that I know how to use a remote release on a D850, here is my D850 on its favorite head on its most-loved camera stand. And look at what's on the tray!



953915e10e4c4b30925a79e647133d85.jpg

As I said a cable release and one would look for what works..... If the MC30a is not a cable release then what terminology is used instead... Since both are called cable releases far as I know....

But hey I dont find every comedian funny...
This is a tough room. Can anybody help me out? I'm dying up here!

Jim

--
 
I have the D800e and I believe that its sharpness is roughly equivalent to my old B&W 4x5s. That's with all things being equal, which they seldom are. The choice of film and developer, and the method chosen for development, including dilution and agitation, are several critical factors. You would make film and processing choices based on the effect you want, and sharpness wasn't always your first priority.

I think that today shutter speed is an often overlooked factor in sharpness. When handheld, camera shake even the radius of 1/2 pixel must degrade sharpness. With the 800e I have found that x2 the focal length is a minimum shutter speed, and I am more confident with x3, handheld. This is why I am a big fan of IBIS. Under certain conditions, a lesser camera with IBIS can produce a sharper image than my D800. It all depends on available light, and especially if one point of the exposure triangle is fixed as to shutter speed.
 
When handheld, camera shake even the radius of 1/2 pixel must degrade sharpness.
I'm not sure what you mean by radius when applied to blur.

With the Otus 55 on a 4.9 um pitch camera at f/5.6, there's not much degradation at 1-px-long linear blur:


But at 4.3 um and f/2 or f/2.8, I think your 1/2 px number is pretty darned good.

But do most people shoot that lens handheld when going for max sharpness? I dunno.

Jim
 

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