G7 Thoughts

[Virvatulet]

1DmkII bodies and a 1DsmkII, I know plenty about sensitivity, noise
and resolution from DSLRs, thank you.

So you don’t remember or understand your own original question:

“So why all the talk that f2.8 is considered not good enough for P&S users while in the DSLR forums f2.8 lens speed is outstanding?”

I believe that that question has been more than answered and shows how little you actually understand about the subject.

-Virvatulet

So you don’t remember or understand your own original question:

“So why all the talk that f2.8 is considered not good enough for P&S users while in the DSLR forums f2.8 lens speed is outstanding?”

I believe that that question has been more than answered and shows how little you actually understand about the subject.

-Virvatulet

PS. Great and expensive cameras you have…

 

[PixelMinded]

Not a G at all? Which part of G7 don't you understand?

Lay Lo May
u just joined the other day
'n' can't tell a G form an A
so leave Jim say what he wants to say
did u know how many feel the same way?!!!
Lay Lo May, Lay Lo May; stay away, stay away...

 

[PixelMinded]

If a photographer needs Raw then use an SLR.

If a photographer is seriuos about his Images he uses an SLR camera
along with quality lenses.

These generaliztions that u are making may apply to u and others. but not to me and many prosumer wannabes here on this forum whom for different reasons we do not want a DSLR. I shoot almost all the time RAW on my Pro1 and take what I do very seriously. There are also DSLR users who buy a compact and prefer to have RAW on it.

In the same way that there is a need for P&Ss with full manual controls there is a need for ones with RAW. In fact may be the less experienced users (more among P&S users) need RAW more because they are the ones who are more likely to make exposure and other mistakes that can be corrected by RAW. And it does not complicate the design of the camera or add much to its cost for the mfr's to include RAW.

 

[ivan137613]

Poor Jim I think he is having a I really want a G7 fit but just does not want to pay for one. :=) Yeah all us buyers of the G7 are crying our eyes out. No just laughing our butts off at your lame G7 bashing posts.

 

[bwbrock]

So you don’t remember or understand your own original question:

“So why all the talk that f2.8 is considered not good enough
for P&S users while in the DSLR forums f2.8 lens speed is
outstanding?”

Sorry, I haven't seen an answer that makes any sense in this thread or in others in that regard, especially from people who don't shoot with the camera they complain about. That's MY opinion. They pick on the f2.8 lens speed because they can't live without f2 while DSLR users are saying f4 is fine and f2.8 is great. An f2.8 lens is a fast lens even if it is only on the wide end. If you want DOF control, you're NOT getting in a P&S, even if it has f2 at the wide end. A wide angle lens inherently gives you a larger DOF even if the aperture is f2.8 or even f2. My 35mm/f2 gives a large DOF wide open on the 10D as well as the 1DsmkII, for example.

Can you follow this? The same people who whine about the G7 having a max aperture of f2.8 are also in the DSLR forums ridiculing those who want f2.8 in their lenses instead of getting by with f4.

So...I'm laughing at the people who compare the G7 to a DSLR and complain that it doesn't add up. Well, IT IS NOT A DSLR! Comparing the G7 to a DSLR is a compliment to the designers of the G7. It is not a $500 brick as some allude to on these forum pages.

 

[tkrynsky]

You know, so far I haven't seen one of the G7 bashers admit they've actually held the camera for even a minute.

I have however, seen a few posts from people that were skeptical about the G7 picket it up and thought it was great.

To all you G7 bashers out there, why don't you head on over to the local camera store and try a G7 out for a few minutes. Only then will you realize how completly idiotic many of your comments have been... you're like a blind man trying to describe a new car that's comming out. You've never realy seen one, you've never touched one so obviously your descriptions are not very accurate.

 

[thw]

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com

 

[ivan137613]

Myself I could care less about what the G7 bashers are posting it's really just sour grapes. I have mine and I like it. Thats really whats important to me.

 

[4-8-4-Northern]

To all you G7 bashers out there, why don't you head on over to the
local camera store and try a G7 out for a few minutes. Only then
will you realize how completly idiotic many of your comments have
been...

When you try out the "G" 7 for a few minutes as you said, does it magically get raw capability?

 

[jonrobertp]

How you can claim (with a straight face) that an old S400 with 5 megs can make the best prints....I need your imagination on my wedding shoots. Can you spare a saturday?? c'mon, sure it's good you like your cam, but there are tons of people who have better equipment than you and I together. (and I've got 5 digicams at the moment...and no, you don't have to care ! ) Some realism doesn't hurt either.
--
Life is not a dress rehearsal !
See Cuba & NYC at http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com

 

[jonrobertp]

Scott !! you don't belong here ! You make too much common sense !!
--
Life is not a dress rehearsal !
See Cuba & NYC at http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com

 

[jonrobertp]

Pixel: you have a point. However, you would also be surprised how many wedding photographers use primarily (or all) jpgs in pro work, and are collecting thousands in cash for quality jpgs. I know several such shooters myself, including one who was voted (by other pro shooters) as the no.1 photog. in a region of 4 million people. Different strokes for different folks. And, more than one way to get to a good print. (me, I use both as the need arises).
--
Life is not a dress rehearsal !
See Cuba & NYC at http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com

 

[cowtung]

YES! You can indeed remotely control your G7. Canon calls the program "CameraWindow" and it uses the usb connection to completely control your camera (full manual control with zoom and everything). It comes on the CD with the camera. I just took this very nice shot of myself 2 mins ago by hitting F1. The hard part was getting just the right expression on my face.

 

[PixelMinded]

Pixel: you have a point. However, you would also be surprised how
many wedding photographers use primarily (or all) jpgs in pro work,

I know and was actually thinking to write that some Pro's and DSLR users do not make use of the RAW option on their cameras. But it would be unthinkable for a mfr to make a DSLR without RAW, regardless of the percentage of RAW users versus JPG users, as long as camera models are unmodifiable packages as they are now (there is only one pkg of 30d for example, no possibility to order one without RAW).

I believe that the same logic should have applied to the G7 and S80. If only a minority of the wannabes of these 2 models wants RAW, it is worth it to include it for them especially when RAW is a software feature simple and cheap to add. Canon insists on maintaining an optical or electronic viewfinder (OVF/EVF) on most if not all of their PowerShot (non-SLR) models, although many folks (myself included) rely entirely on the LCD and although the OVF or EVF is a hardware feature that complicate the design and add to the cost.

Other mfr's (Fuji for example) rightfully include RAW on models that are equivalent to the A series.

The notion of unmodifiable packages which is the norm in the camera world makes us really pay for things that we don't need and miss others that we badly need. There should be more diversity somehow and meaningful differences (the A630/640 difference is meaningless IMO).

 

[DarioB]

I find the G7 a very interesting camera and I am considering it as a replacement for my old HP945.

But, I must admit that the comparison with A series camera is an interesting one. For sure, the G7 looks beautyful, well built, lot of fetaures, etc..

However, I read in a post on this forum that the image quality is comparable to that of A640, a much less expensive camera.

The A640, however, is not IS and only has a 4x zoom (instead of 6x)

Another comaprison could be made with the A710, which has the same zoom (6x) and is IS: is maybe the same lens?

However, the A710 has a smaller sensor and is only 7 Mpixel.

So, in conclusion, the G7 is a better camera, I think, but some A models come close as image quality (A640) or lens (A710).

Dario

 

[Mika Y.]

what part of f2.0 do you need?.. you cannot say the G7 has a
"slower" lens if the IS gives 4 fstops of additional usage...

oh wait...that would make the G7 3 stops faster than its
predecessors

oh..and the G7 has more usable high ISO.. 2 stops?... 3 stops?

While image stabilization is a nice thing, there are a couple of reasons to have a larger aperture as well:

• As has been said, image stabilization doesn't help if the intention is to freeze subject motion.

• By trading off aperture, it becomes more difficult to play with small depth of field. Granted, the difference won't be huge, but it's noticeable.

• Finally, image stabilization and a larger aperture would allow one to take photos with even less light, as long as the subject motion is not an issue.

Of course, not all or even any of the above issues may be significant for an individual; it depens on what you tend to shoot.

 

[GlennR]

Compare nthe G7 to an A640- the "top of thr line" A with the same size sensor ...

G7 has

IS
rechargeable battery w/recharger
built in ND filter (I use this on my G7 - better than a screw-on anyday)
Auto exposure bracketing
35-210 35mm equivalent focal length
noticeably better build
hot shoe
noticably better and larger LCD (but it doesn't swivel)

Now, does that look like an A640? Hardly feature challenged. I see a lot more worth there (and I loved my A-series cameras)

I agree with you, it isn't like previous G-series cameras, but it is not "an A-series with a hot shoe" either.

It is really a totally different camera than A-series or G-series.

These are all features that I use to take photographs; I will miss the swivel screen, but I certaintly never had that on my film SLR and I have a lot of very good shots from it.

With my film SLR I shot K64 with 2 f/4 lenses (28-85, 70-200). Somehow I think I can handle ISO 80 or 100 @ 210 mm and f/4.9 with IS.

NO, I'm not trying to justify my "poor purchase", but RIGHT NOW, it is the leading candidate to replace my G5 sometime next year. I'll make that decision when I'm ready to buy.

i

 

[GlennR]

Don't have a G7.

 

[PixelMinded]

Compare nthe G7 to an A640- the "top of thr line" A with the same
size sensor ...

The top of the A-series is the A640 jointly with the A710IS. Any G7 wannabe will compare to each of these to top-A's and can save money by opting to either the long-range image-stabilized A710 or the better sensor and flip&twist LCD of the A640. All three cameras (G7/A640/A710) have 2.5" LCD so the G7's LCD is NOT larger as u mention below just higher in resolution (207,000 vs. 115,000).

What does the G7 have over the A-series represented by the joint top A640/A710:
Hot shoe.
. 207,000 LCD (overshadowed by the A640's advantage of flip&twist). Live histogram (u forgot that. It is not a big deal anyhow).

--Other differences are subtle ones that won't make it to most specs sheets (only the v detailed ones).

Now compare the G6 to the A-series of its time represented by the then top of line A95:
Higher resolution sensor 7MP vs 5MP Hot shoe
Raw Slightly larger LCD 2" vs 1.8" (both were twisting and 118,000).
IR remote control. f2 lens.
--The subtle differences were more then they are now I believe.

G7 has
IS

A710 has it

rechargeable battery w/recharger

Many consider AA batteries advantage because they and their charge are easier to replace when they die (the extra cost of buying two sets of decent rechargeable AA's with their charger is negligible when the very xpnsv price of G7's is taken into consideration).

built in ND filter (I use this on my G7 - better than a screw-on
anyday)

Subtle difference (didn't check if both 640/710 really lack it).

Auto exposure bracketing

Subtle difference

35-210 35mm equivalent focal length

A 710 has it

noticeably better build

That's something relative and natural for a much more xpnsv camera.

hot shoe

True advantage (the only true advantage that is not .

noticably better and larger LCD (but it doesn't swivel)

Only higher resolution (207,000) but NOT larger than neither 640 nor 710.

Now, does that look like an A640? Hardly feature challenged. I see
a lot more worth there (and I loved my A-series cameras)
I agree with you, it isn't like previous G-series cameras, but it
is not "an A-series with a hot shoe" either.

If compare the two comparisons above (G6 s A95) vs (G7 vs A640/710), u will see why many think of G7 is closer to the current A's then its to the old G's with just one single true advantage (hot shoe).

It is really a totally different camera than A-series or G-series.

Totally different camera from old G-series. Slightly different camera from A-series (with one real advantage, it is easier to think of it as a first-time-hotshoe A-series --most similar to the A710-- than as a continuation of the great old G-series with all missing features). Naming in theory should not matter but psychologically naming it G had the devastating effect of making many feel that the legacy of the old G's has been lost forever.

 

[jonrobertp]

I gotta agree with that logic. It would be interesting to sit in on meetings where the VIP's decide which features to include/omit in a new product. (and hard to keep quiet as an observer)
--
Life is not a dress rehearsal !
See Cuba & NYC at http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com