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G11 for macro with ringflash?

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diogenes1

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I'm thinking of getting the G11 for macro photos with either my Metz 15 MS1 or my Phoenix 46C ringflashes. I need the swivel LCD so I'm stuck with the G11.

I could use Olympus or Panasonic, or even the Nikon D5000 but this would mean investing in more non-Canon stuff. I also have the 430EX and the 580EX so it will have to be the G11, until canon comes up with a swivel LCD for their DSLRs.
Any ideas or recommendations from anyone would be appreciated.
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dodge
elementalview.com
elementalview.blogspot.com
 
I'm sorry, but I've no idea if your current flash will work. However, in the user guide Canon list the Macro Ring Lite MR-14EX and Macro Twin Lite MT-24EX as compatible with G11. You have to buy an adaptor ring to mount them and your flash might fit too.

There are some more info in the G11 user guide (p 169), you can probably find it on the net somewhere (Pdf-file).
 
The camera manual suggests that the Canon ring flashes control units need to be mounted via the off shoe cord onto a flash bracket and then the ring flashes themselves mount onto the camera via the lens adaptor. I'm not sure why the bracket is required - presumably on the small body the control unit is fouled somewhere with it mounted directly on the camera flash. I plan to try it with my Sigma DG macro flash (assuming the ETT-L works - my Sigma DG Super which is the same age does so I'm hopeful!) once the lens adaptor shows up (I've ordered the lensmate one and it's on its way from the US)
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Some of the least worse of my photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/susans/
 
Just to add: I'm suprised you don't want to use a DSLR for macro is you have the gear already - the extra depth of field is fun on the compacts but an angle finder is probably near as good as a swivel screen. And manual focusing is very hard on the G11 - much easier to do with a DSLR and macro lens.
Some of the least worse of my photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/susans/
 
Susan S. said:
Just to add: I'm suprised you don't want to use a DSLR for macro is you have the gear already - the extra depth of field is fun on the compacts but an angle finder is probably near as good as a swivel screen. And manual focusing is very hard on the G11 - much easier to do with a DSLR and macro lens.
Some of the least worse of my photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/susans/
Click to expand...
I agree with the OP that for macro use a swivel LCD is really hard to beat. I certainly prefer it to any viewfinder both for macro and other pictures when I use a tripod - and have enough time. Actually Live View even with a fixed LCD works well when the camera position isn't too akward.

Manual focus works very well with an enlarged view on the LCD, but it works better where you have a separate focusring than on the G11. I'm (like the OP) waiting for Canon to introduce this feature on a dSLR (unless they come out with a mirrorless Eos). The best I've tried so far for macro/manual focus on the LCD is the Panasonic GH1, but something with a higher res LCD would be even better.
 
IMHO the G11 has several points in its favour for macro:
  • swivel screen: great!
  • manual focus: in this case usable but not so great, see below
  • but also flexizone AF where you can move the focus point over the screen, and also make the focus point smaller
  • optional adapter which is great for attaching closeup lenses (see my thread on G11 macros with Raynox).
Its limitations for macro are:
  • the screen doesn´t "pop" with manual focus, you easily pass over the focus point
  • the macro focus point is not moveble over the screen, so you have to move the camera to focus and then frame again
  • to obtain a reasonable magnification, working distance is very very short and barrel distortion severe
  • the internal flash has the lens in its way.
How to overcome these limitations?
  • some of the older camera screens are much better (e.g. Panasonic FZ50) but who knows if a "pop" function could be made available (firmware, G12?)
  • closeup lenses help a lot to increase working distance and eliminate barrel distortion, but cannot be combined with the Canon ringflash, as I understand, as they use the same adaptor.
Note: a superzoom still works better than G11 with closeup lenses, because you can zoom in to 400 or more mm and obtain greater magnicifacion.

For a better illumination of the macro subject with closeup lenses I would recommend
-a simple reflector or
-one or more lamps or even flashlights or a headlamp

-one or more small $30 slave flashes, activated by the camera flash, while the camera flash could be blocked partially with some reflective material to prevent uneven lighting of the subject.

In conclusion, to improve the G11 for macro, I would
  • first install a suitable closeup lens, at least +4 dioptre for about 25 cm working distance and a much greater magnification and no barrel distortion in the tele range than you get with in the normal macro mode at 28 mm and 1 cm distance
  • and then think about one of the many (cheap) alternatives to improve illumination.
 
Thanks for the very helpful hints!
I do think that what I need the G11 for is quite unique. Here is my situation:

I need a camera for photos in the OR for body cavity shots. Hence the need for the swivel LCD (I don't need to stoop over the body cavity...not advisable). I will have less than a minute to take several shots. Composition is not critical...just quick focus over the general area with good depth of field is crucial. I can crop and digitally enlarge later. 1:4 magnification is sufficient. 1:3 even better.

I used to use an E-3 a 14-54 and the Metz 15 MS-1. Worked really well. The only reason I'm thiking of the G11 is that I have Canon speedlights. and a Canon-compatible ringflash.

The ideal setup for me, since I also have some decent Nikon lenses (a 28-105 sharp cheapo that focuses to 1:4, a 120 Medical Nikkor, and a 105 Micro-Nikkor).

The attraction for the G11 is that it's small and I can use a wrist strap in the OR.

In other words, if the G11 can do what the D5000 can do, or come close to it, then the G11 is it. I'm going over to my camera guy tomorrow and look at a G11.

Barrel distortion is not an issue in the OR. Critical focusing and speed of focus is.
--
dodge
 
If you want quality macro (as opposed to closeups) you need a DSLR with macro lenses.

I've seen some amazing results with a P&S and macro lens adapters, but it's not the same thing, you can't beat a DSLR and a proper macro lens.
 
I understand that, and I do have the 105 Micro-Nikkor (1:1) and the Medical Nikkor (1:1). but these beasts are heavy and not suitable to carry around in sterile conditions.
--
dodge
 
In that case...... (are these human or animal, anyway I am a vet so I didn´t get too frightened...) I think the G11 is a good choice because:
  • one of the smallest cameras with swivel LCD
  • the lens adaptor tube (available from $15) protects the lens from contamination, and makes it very easy to cover the camera with a plastic bag or wrap, fixed with an elastic band over the end of the tube. With the camera covered this way, the lens can freely move inside the tube. At the end of the tube you can put a simple UV filter for even more protection of the lens.
For illumination I would use a headlamp. I have one from Petzl, with several light intensities, several vertical positions, and you can easily change the position on your head, while you keep your both hands free, or you can use an additional flashlight in one hand. Ring or other flashes take space and easily get contaminated.

I would put the camera in flexizone AF (one moveble focus point), then if necessary choose the right focus point position on screen, depending on the freedom you have to move the camera. Try first normal focus, if you don´t get focus, try macro focus (left option on 4-way controller), and there is your picture! You can of course give manual focus a try. When you get experience you can put the manual focus on a certain distance, and vary the camera-subjet distance to get focus. The distance given on screen is altered by the closeup lens, but it works if you adjust.

Still i would advise you to get a set of simple closeup lenses, like +4 and 2. These can be stacked. The +2 can also be used as a protective lens, on its own it interferes very little. Working distance for +4 is about 25 cm, for +6 it is 16 cm, which is probably adequate for body cavities. The big advantage with these lenses is that you can zoom in or zoom out to get the kind of overview or detail you want. In wide angle you will see some vignetting.

Apart from your G11 this would be a less than $100 investment!
 
Excellent advice...everything that I need to know. I'll be using a Canon E-TTL compatible flash. (And it's people OR).
Thank you...I'll be checking out a G11 tomorrow.
--
dodge
 
just had a look at Amazon: G11 + adaptor + 58 mm closeup filter set will set you back on $ 475, Black Friday price?

Please let me know if everything worked out as I promised!
 
Well the lens adaptor came in the post and it's a mixed report. Yes the Sigma

macro ring flash does work with the G11. However I had some trouble getting it to dial its exposure down enough - because the G11 macro is only at full wide angle, the tiny working distance means that even a ring flash is too close - and that's with the aperture closed right up, neutral density filter in place and ISO80. (and it wasn't just the ett-l flash auto exposure mucking up - even using the flash on manual and reducing the flash output to minimum I was still getting overexposure and or uneven exposure as the flash was just too close to the subject.) So you need a ring flash that dials right back to very low exposures to work

To increase the working distance I added the second part of the lens adaptor, a 58mm Hoya +4 magnifying filter and then snapped the ring flash onto that - it vignettes at wide angles but gives better magnification at longer working distances at the cost of some fringing and chromatic aberration. The ring flash then works better but needs some fiddling to get exposure right (but I think that's partly the qurkiness of the Sigma flash - the ETT-L has never been brilliant on my DSLR either).

I think the best way to light macro subjects where you want some three dimensionality rather than the flatness of a ringflash may well be a low powered flash like the 270EX attached via the horrendously expensive off hotshoe cord - that would give overhead or side lighting. That rig would be light enough to hold the camera in one hand and the flash in another.

Oh and the other good news is that the old telecoverter from my G3 works on the G11, although it vignetttes like crazy at anything other than maximum zoom.
--
Some of the least worse of my photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/susans/
 
The key word here is depth of field, which is much increased with smaller sensors, or in fact, with the smaller lenses used for them. For many macro applications, and yours too, this effect is very desirable and makes the job much easier.

However this greater sharpness effect is reduced when you use closeup lenses, the stronger the lens, the smaller your depth of field will get. You can try it out for $10.99, the lowest price for a closeup set!
 
I did get a G11, used it for a week with and without a ringflash, then sold it (at a loss, of course) at the end of that week.

IQ was good but the camera didn't fulfill my requirements. The macro feature wasn't close enough and my hands kept moving/punching the dials/buttons unintentionally. In otehr words, I realized that what I needed was an smallish SLR with a tilt/swivel screen + a macro lens.
I'll wait and see if canon comes out with a D5000-type of camera.
--
dodge
 
diogenes1 said:
I did get a G11, used it for a week with and without a ringflash, then sold it (at a loss, of course) at the end of that week.

IQ was good but the camera didn't fulfill my requirements. The macro feature wasn't close enough and my hands kept moving/punching the dials/buttons unintentionally. In otehr words, I realized that what I needed was an smallish SLR with a tilt/swivel screen + a macro lens.
I'll wait and see if canon comes out with a D5000-type of camera.
--
dodge
Click to expand...
What a pity, there is an excelent workaround for the button touching problem, see my contribution to a thread called: G11 + my thumb = disaster.

And with G11 and a cheap adapter tube and some diopter lenses you can get a macro with a width of 31 mm at full tele (with Raybox 250, +8 diopter), which is better than 1:1 on a full frame DSLR, at a fraction of the cost. The road in between would be a superzoom, so your macro width with the same diopter lens would have a width of 10 mm or even less.

Bigger sensors have also disadvantages for macro: less depth of field, heavier tripods, expensive macro lenses, although the Raynox 150 and 250 lenses (or other) will work well on zoomlenses in the range of 100 to about 400 mm.
 
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