fill flash and sync flash

[tonx]

Hi, I also read your blogs and they really help understanding flash photografy. Just one question: I've a D5000 and looking for the SB600. Do you know when I follow your guidelines (M, 1/100, f2.8, etc.) the flash still produces a 'pre-flash' to determine the amount of light it needs? I don;t like that, since it tends to have people shut their eyes.... Or can you disable that on the SB600 (or only on the SB900?)

Thanks for helping a newbee in flash out.
--
ton

 

[Abrahm]

I'm missing something here.

When using a flash, the highest shutter speed will always be the sync speed of the camera. Even in M and S modes, the max shutter speed will never exceed the sync speed (again, when using flash).

The sync speed is (usually) too slow for using flash outdoors and in bright sunlight; the shot will be overexposed. Of course, Auto FP gets over the sync speed limitation. But consider the following:

• the camera doesn't have Auto FP
• ISO is set to lowest possible value (100 or 200)
• bounce flash is not possible
• the subject can't be moved

What are the options for that situation?

• Dial the flash power back AND use a smaller aperture?
• Meter for the bright background and set the flash to TTL-BL?
• None of the above?

--

• Abrahm

 

[lmpmd]

Hi, I also read your blogs and they really help understanding flash photografy. Just one question: I've a D5000 and looking for the SB600. Do you know when I follow your guidelines (M, 1/100, f2.8, etc.) the flash still produces a 'pre-flash' to determine the amount of light it needs? I don;t like that, since it tends to have people shut their eyes.... Or can you disable that on the SB600 (or only on the SB900?)

Thanks for helping a newbee in flash out.
--
ton

I think you can do it with the FV lock button, so the preflash is separated from the actual flash. It's a bit of a hassle. These fast blinkers are a pain. Isn't there a FV lock option on the D5000. I find these blinkers are rare - but you may have one in your family. Have you tried having them close their eyes and open them right before you take the pic?
--
Larry

 

[Mr. Click]

If you will read all the blog posts and all the reader replies on this blog, I guarantee that you will know more about the Nikon flash system than 90% of the Nikon users out there. Do yourself a favor and read: http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/01/nikon-flash-two-separate-metering.html

--
Photograph—a 1/125 second slice of time that is able to store
decades of memories.

 

[tonx]

Thanks for the answer. The D5000 has an FV lock button. But I don't like the preflash, it eliminates spontanious capture of the situation, lnot only closing eyes, but also people looking over their shoulder, looking up, etc. They are simply triggered by the preflash. So I want to work in 'non-pre-flash mode'.
--
ton

 

[lmpmd]

Thanks for the answer. The D5000 has an FV lock button. But I don't like the preflash, it eliminates spontanious capture of the situation, lnot only closing eyes, but also people looking over their shoulder, looking up, etc. They are simply triggered by the preflash. So I want to work in 'non-pre-flash mode'.
--
ton

I'm no flash expert, and I'm sure what your talking about exists. But the whole purpose of the pre-flash is to get the exposure perfect for the "real" flash. So eliminating pre-flash is going to hurt accuracy of flash and potentially have flash put out wrong amount of light. Could you do preflash with FV lock and then verbally command your audience to pay attention. I've heard the expensive cameras dont get blinkers as much (maybe preflash is closer to actual flash).
Options are:
FV lock and get tough on your audience
No FV lock, have them close eyes and open just before picture.
Get more expensive camera.

Kick that fast blinking woman out of the picture and out of the wedding. Send her to the wedding across the hall.

Simplest answer: I can't make an old person look like a young person and I can't make a blinker have open eyes. (I'm sure you didn't want to hear that)

Does anyone else have advise for this poster? Maybe do a search? Sorry, I'm no expert. I have a D300 and only experienced this with one young woman. I had to say tough luck to her (but if I were a professional I'd keep looking for an answer).
--
Larry

 

[tamunick]

I think the preflash is used by the ttl, or "through-the-lens", metering system. You should be able to eliminate the preflash by switching to manual flash power, because now you will have to decide which power to fire the flash at. You'll obviously then have to have a good idea of how much power you'll need, and I don't know how to calculate that.

 

[pschatz100]

For most of my general purpose shooting, I use A priority and center weighted metering. ISO varies - outdoors it tends to be lower and indoors it tends to be higher. I don't worry about ISO too much as I'm more concerned about maintaining the aperture and shutter speed I want. As long as you don't underexpose the picture, even high ISO's still look good.

When using the SB600, I set the camera flash exposure compensation to zero. This way, all the adjustments are coming from the flash. I will use TTL or TTL-BL mode depending upon whether I want the flash to be the main light or fill light. I will usually take two shots with different flash amounts - it is very easy to adjust on the back of the flash. I decide later which ones to keep.

I practiced quite a bit on everyday shots until I figured out what exposure settings I like to use. That way, when the shot counts I'm confident about what I am doing. It is really pretty easy, but you have to be willing to spend the time it takes to look at the pictures on your computer and learn from your mistakes.

--
pschatz100
It's not how many pixels you have... but how you use them.

 

[tonx]

I'd like to see it working just like the build-in flash; you set everything to M, 1/100, f8, iso auto to max 800, iso set at 200, then start to take pictures. The flash will produce just enough light to get good pictures. I never had overexposed pictures,only under exposed due to the small capacity of the internal flash. Other thing I'm really looking for is bounced (ceiling) flash, but still using the same (M) methodology as described above. I don;t know if this is called A-metering, or 'std.-TTL', or what ever. But that what I'm looking for in a flash and it eliminates the i-TTL pre-flash....

--
ton

 

[mrbr]

I'd like to see it working just like the build-in flash; you set everything to M, 1/100, f8, iso auto to max 800, iso set at 200, then start to take pictures. The flash will produce just enough light to get good pictures. I never had overexposed pictures,only under exposed due to the small capacity of the internal flash. Other thing I'm really looking for is bounced (ceiling) flash, but still using the same (M) methodology as described above. I don;t know if this is called A-metering, or 'std.-TTL', or what ever. But that what I'm looking for in a flash and it eliminates the i-TTL pre-flash....

--
ton

Hi Ton,

You can avoid preflashes when using M flash mode ( evn with your built-in flash ).

I suggest you download the users-manual of the flash of your choice and lookup the section "Manual flash mode" for more information.

You can download the user manuals from :

http://support.nikontech.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13948/kw/user%20manual/r_id/116678#Anchor-59125

--
Greetings,
Marc

ps : some interesting tutorial websites :

http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/articles.htm
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/
http://www.normankoren.com/sitemap.html



my photos (under construction):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrbr03/

 

[Uday Addala]

Thanks

 

[Arkayem]

I'd like to see it working just like the build-in flash; you set everything to M, 1/100, f8, iso auto to max 800, iso set at 200, then start to take pictures. The flash will produce just enough light to get good pictures. I never had overexposed pictures,only under exposed due to the small capacity of the internal flash. Other thing I'm really looking for is bounced (ceiling) flash, but still using the same (M) methodology as described above. I don;t know if this is called A-metering, or 'std.-TTL', or what ever. But that what I'm looking for in a flash and it eliminates the i-TTL pre-flash....

--
ton

Hi Ton,

Sorry I didn't get back to this thread sooner. I have to shoot pictures to make my living, so I've been pretty busy.

First, when you say 'Set everything to M', it's not always clear whether you mean Camera Manual or Flash Manual or both. Please be specific.

Another term to be careful of is Camera 'A' mode and Flash 'A' mode (although the SB-600 doesn't have an 'A' mode).

Now, about the preflash. The iTTL system always requires a preflash to determine what power to set on the flash. There is no way to use iTTL without the preflash. Even if you use FV Lock (as suggested by another reply), the preflash is still fired once to lock in the flash power.

However, you can eliminate the preflash on the SB-600 by switching to Flash Manual mode on the back of the flash. Then, it will no longer work automatically, and you have to set your flash power manually on the back of the flash.

Also, the SB-600 works exactly like the built-in flash except that the built-in has much less power. They both use the preflash exactly the same way. If you select Camera Manual and Flash Manual, it doesn't matter what you do with ISO or aperture or shutter. The flash will always fire at whatever power you told it to in the menu. It doesn't work the way you described. You were just lucky if you got proper exposure. Maybe the auto-ISO was adding enough ambient to make you think it was working correctly.

If you are in Flash Manual mode, the flash power will always be constant. It doesn't matter what mode the camera is in.

Now, on the SB-800 there are several different modes; Flash A, AA, and SU-4. You can eliminate the preflash in Flash A mode and SU-4 mode, but not in AA mode. In Flash A mode, the flash watches the reflected energy from the field of coverage with it's own Thryrister Eye and shuts itself off when it decides it's bright enough. This is called Non-TTL Auto mode and it works good for some subjects and not for others.

AA modes uses both its Thyrister Eye and a preflash to set its power, although the preflash is primarilly for setting white balance.

To repeat: Flash A mode is NOT available on the SB-600. The only modes available on the SB-600 are iTTL, iTTL-BL, and Flash Manual.

The SB-900 has all the same modes as the SWB-800, but there is an additional option to eliminate the preflash in AA mode.

So, if you want automatic operation with an SB-600 your only choices are iTTL or iTTL-BL, and you will always have a preflash.

If you want to set the power of the SB-600 manually, then select Flash Manual mode on the back of the flash and adjust the rocker switch on the back of the flash to set your power.

--
Russ MacDonald
http://www.russmacdonaldphotos.com/
http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/

 

[Arkayem]

I'm missing something here.

When using a flash, the highest shutter speed will always be the sync speed of the camera. Even in M and S modes, the max shutter speed will never exceed the sync speed (again, when using flash).

The sync speed is (usually) too slow for using flash outdoors and in bright sunlight; the shot will be overexposed. Of course, Auto FP gets over the sync speed limitation. But consider the following:

• the camera doesn't have Auto FP
• ISO is set to lowest possible value (100 or 200)
• bounce flash is not possible
• the subject can't be moved

What are the options for that situation?

• Dial the flash power back AND use a smaller aperture?
• Meter for the bright background and set the flash to TTL-BL?
• None of the above?

--

• Abrahm

Hi Abrahm,

All correct except, you missed one thing:

When shooting Fill Flash in bright light, you can just switch to P mode, and the camera will control the ambient exposure by stopping down the aperture while leaving the shutter pegged on the flash sync speed. Or you can also use camera S mode and set the shutter at the flash sync speed yourself.

Of course, you lose that nice depth of field control when you do this.

This is why Auto FP High Speed Sync mode was invented. It allows you to use Camera A mode in bright light while shooting iTTL flash, because it will allow the shutter to increase to whatever necessary to control the ambient exposure.

--
Russ MacDonald
http://www.russmacdonaldphotos.com/
http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/