Few Z questions ...

[madecov]

Out of the box, the OK button on the four way controller re sets the focus point. The other buttons can be set to operate until a second press

 

[olyflyer]

Somehow this thing has gotten WAAAAAY overblown.

Yes, and you are the main contributor why that happened.

Nobody else contributed to that?

I didn't say "nobody else" but actually, you are a bit hang up on this and not capable of listening to the pros, you only see the ONLY con XQD has, which is the price.

I asked some questions about the Z6. Stated MANY things I like about it.

The list was not very long and you did NOT emphasize it as much as you did with the XQD and how much you know it better than Nikon engineers how they should have done it. Basically, you dismissed every other opinion AND facts other than your own ideas.

My apologies if I didn't heap enough praise on the Z camera.

You seem to misunderstand quite a lot. Technical facts are not "praise", they are facts.

Asked if the XQD cards had been an issue with anyone.

"Issue" means problem. It's obvious that there are no problems with it.

Yes, it works, if that is your definition of 'issue'. Many reviewers have made points very similar to mine.

What "points"? That it is a Sony standard or that it is more expensive than SD?

It was a disadvantage not an advantage in my eyes.

Why is it a "disadvantage"? I mean, you can say it is too expensive for your pocket, but "disadvantage"...?

Cost. Incompatibility with my other cameras. Difficult or impossible to find in a retail store.

Cost should seriously not be an issue. If it is then the Z is not your camera, you should stay with Canon.

I think a bigger compatibility problem is that you can't use your lenses or flashes. At least so would I see it. Other than that, it is not compatible with any of my cameras, but compatible with several other Nikon. Nikon can't really help that I bought the "wrong" cameras before...

I don't know where you live and which places you visit. As I said earlier, I can find it in any camera shops near me, within 10km distance (that's the nearest camera shop) and it is even easier when I travel to major cities of Europe. I don't know why you have problems finding it near you.

The defenders if the XQD card came out of the woods in droves.

Nobody is "defending" XQD or Nikon, except that some of believe that it is their decision to move forward with technology and not backward or stand still. It's my decision to bite the bullet and pay for it. Whining about it makes no sense.

What I experienced here is right out of the 'How to be a F@nboy' handbook. It is common on internet forums unfortunately.

I think your definition of f@nboy is wrong. Also be aware that calling people "f@nboy" is against the rules. Personally I don't care, but you can get banned for that, or at least get a warning if someone reports it to the mods.

You'd think I insulted their mother or something!

I think you are a bit overreacting a little because you didn't receive the support you expected to receive. I also think your self confidence is a bit too high, claiming to know everything better than anyone else.

I'm overreacting? Could you be overreacting? I'll think it for a while and reflect on my behavior. I hope you can do the same?

Yes, you put it exactly right, either the other advantages outweigh it or not.

To be honest, I think you better stay with Canon, or if you really hate them as well and they also screwed up everything then get a Sony or something else.

Cameras are inanimate objects. I don't hate any of them. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

That's pretty different from what you said earlier. You could certainly fool me.

I'm just trying to find out info on the Z to asses if it will work for me

It does appear this topic seems to be a bit of a sore spot here

Not really.

Why so many posts on XQD and very few on my other points?

Because that's what you were so hang up about.

I'll venture a guess. The other points were all positives. One negative and folks jump on it like a dog on a bone.

People actually tried to explain the advantages of it, but you are not interested. Yes, XQD is expensive, nobody debated that part, but you compared it with SD, and that's what some people tried to say was wrong. You also missed a few other points about it, which are important as well.

so I'm guessing I'm not the first to be attacked by the XQD card defenders (as well meaning as they might be).

Actually, I bought my Z7 kit end of October last year and followed this forum ever since, but I have not seen any threads where anyone would be so stubborn about the "disadvantage" of XQD as you are. We have had several discussions about XQD vs. SD, dual slot vs. single slot, the differences in price vs. the reasons for the differences, as well as many other things. You didn't discover the wheel, so there is nothing specific about your claims, except that you don't realize that you MIGHT be wrong about more than one thing and yes, you ask questions but you don't listen and don't hear the answers.

Stubborn? Ok, possibly. Everyone is to some degree. Nobody changed any of my thoughts on the matter. I was hoping I missed something in my initial analysis and I'd be enlightened. No new info was learned which is unfortunate with all he effort expended.

Yes, you missed some new info here, one was the comment I made about Nikon using it as buffer, but I did not go into detail about that because you were not interested and not even bothered to acknowledge that you read it.

It might be so that XQD is overkill for your needs, that's fine. But the solution is really simple, get another camera which uses cheap SD and not XQD. But if that is the only problem you have with the Z then just bite the bullet and pay for the card. I only have one because I don't feel I need a spare, and if it would stop working I can always buy a new one on any airport city I frequently visit, including the small city of Lund just outside my village. Yes, they are expensive, nobody really said otherwise.

I may 'bite the bullet'. Again, just trying do get some info.

I think before you "bite the bullet" it would be a good idea to wade through the manual first. It might put you off completely, or might balance the disadvantage of high XQD price.

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more? Even so, I am pretty sure that a serious shop would give you a good discount from the listed price if you are a good negotiator.

 

[jwilliams]

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more? Even so, I am pretty sure that a serious shop would give you a good discount from the listed price if you are a good negotiator.

Real camera shops do not exist anywhere near me. Last one near me closed several years ago. They are rare to find anywhere in the US. Only place to even find a Z camera is a big retailor, Best Buy, and even then only select stores have them so I have to make a long drive to even look at one. They are not going to negotiate anything.

I was primarily looking at the refurb deal on B&H with camera and lens but nothing else. A new Z6 can be bought in a kit with a 32 GB card, but the refurb was already a little over my budget. I'm not on an unlimited camera budget. If I have to spend a lot on extras that do not come with a camera that is already past my budget, eventually you get to a point where it no longer makes sense.

If you had to pay an extra $200 for your Z would you buy it? I'll guess yes. Another $200? Maybe? Another $200 over that? Is that too much? Another $200? Is the cost getting painful now? At some point that extra $200 makes the difference.

Everyone has a point where they have to stop and say I'm not gonna pay the extra money.

 

[Mackiesback]

snip
I think before you "bite the bullet" it would be a good idea to wade through the manual first. It might put you off completely, or might balance the disadvantage of high XQD price.

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more?

From Nikon? I have never seen that. At least not in the US. It's the retailers that are throwing that in.

Even so, I am pretty sure that a serious shop would give you a good discount from the listed price if you are a good negotiator.

 

[jfriend00]

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more? Even so, I am pretty sure that a serious shop would give you a good discount from the listed price if you are a good negotiator.

Real camera shops do not exist anywhere near me. Last one near me closed several years ago. They are rare to find anywhere in the US. Only place to even find a Z camera is a big retailor, Best Buy, and even then only select stores have them so I have to make a long drive to even look at one. They are not going to negotiate anything.

I was primarily looking at the refurb deal on B&H with camera and lens but nothing else. A new Z6 can be bought in a kit with a 32 GB card, but the refurb was already a little over my budget. I'm not on an unlimited camera budget. If I have to spend a lot on extras that do not come with a camera that is already past my budget, eventually you get to a point where it no longer makes sense.

If you had to pay an extra $200 for your Z would you buy it? I'll guess yes. Another $200? Maybe? Another $200 over that? Is that too much? Another $200? Is the cost getting painful now? At some point that extra $200 makes the difference.

Everyone has a point where they have to stop and say I'm not gonna pay the extra money.

It just sounds like a fully equipped Nikon Z system (with all accessories/lenses you need) is beyond your budget and that disappoints you because they put features into the Z that you don't really need and wish you didn't have to pay for. I get that, but it is what it is. None of us can do anything about it. As I've said in previous posts, you have several choices:

1. Go over the budget a bit (or wait until you've saved more) and get the Z with the required accessories.

2. Wait for Nikon to come out with a less expensive mirrorless body that better aligns with your price range and required features (it's likely to happen sometime, but we don't know when).

3. Buy a different product (perhaps from a competitor) that better aligns with your price range and required features.

 

[James Stirling]

snip

I think before you "bite the bullet" it would be a good idea to wade through the manual first. It might put you off completely, or might balance the disadvantage of high XQD price.

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more?

From Nikon? I have never seen that. At least not in the US. It's the retailers that are throwing that in.

Even so, I am pretty sure that a serious shop would give you a good discount from the listed price if you are a good negotiator.

Here in the UK a 64gb xqd card was included for the first 6 months or so after launch the offer was from Nikon and you could get it from every retailer .Though the free card was no longer included for those who waited , the price had been reduced by much more than the price of an xqd card, as ever if you can hold off from jumping on board any new launch you avoid the early adopter tax.

--
Jim Stirling:
It is not reason which is the guide of life, but custom. David Hume

 

[olyflyer]

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more? Even so, I am pretty sure that a serious shop would give you a good discount from the listed price if you are a good negotiator.

Real camera shops do not exist anywhere near me. Last one near me closed several years ago. They are rare to find anywhere in the US. Only place to even find a Z camera is a big retailor, Best Buy, and even then only select stores have them so I have to make a long drive to even look at one. They are not going to negotiate anything.

OK, but overnight web delivery is possible as well, if you would be in real emergency. My point was that it can't be a big deal how to get a new XQD if needed.

I was primarily looking at the refurb deal on B&H with camera and lens but nothing else. A new Z6 can be bought in a kit with a 32 GB card, but the refurb was already a little over my budget. I'm not on an unlimited camera budget. If I have to spend a lot on extras that do not come with a camera that is already past my budget, eventually you get to a point where it no longer makes sense.

If you had to pay an extra $200 for your Z would you buy it? I'll guess yes. Another $200? Maybe? Another $200 over that? Is that too much? Another $200? Is the cost getting painful now? At some point that extra $200 makes the difference.

Reading the above and adding my own interpretation I know exactly what and how I would have done in your situation. Very simple. I would not buy a new camera at all, and definitely not the Z6. You are a hobbyist, your daily bread and milk is not dependent on the camera and you already have one or several very good ones. I would save the money and wait. No reason to rush.

Everyone has a point where they have to stop and say I'm not gonna pay the extra money.

Yes, true. But if the point is reached because of the price of the memory card then the best thing is not getting the camera which needs that card. Whining about the price won't make you richer.

It is true that the XQD is very expensive compared to the SD cards, but there are reasons for that. Yes, you may not NEED those benefits, but that is not the same thing as Nikon made the wrong decision about the usage of XQD. Use your power as consumer and don't buy the camera. That is the only way we consumers can demonstrate what we think.

So the questions you should be asking is if you really need the Z6 or not, list all the pros and cons and see which list is longer and follow that path.

 

[olyflyer]

snip

I think before you "bite the bullet" it would be a good idea to wade through the manual first. It might put you off completely, or might balance the disadvantage of high XQD price.

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more?

From Nikon? I have never seen that. At least not in the US. It's the retailers that are throwing that in.

No, actually it was Nikon that included them in the box. Perhaps that is not the case any more, but I definitely received them when I bought my Z7 kit.

 

[jwilliams]

snip

I think before you "bite the bullet" it would be a good idea to wade through the manual first. It might put you off completely, or might balance the disadvantage of high XQD price.

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more?

From Nikon? I have never seen that. At least not in the US. It's the retailers that are throwing that in.

No, actually it was Nikon that included them in the box. Perhaps that is not the case any more, but I definitely received them when I bought my Z7 kit.

Often folks in the US don't get the good deals offered in Europe. Not sure where the other poster was from, but I am pretty sure there are no kits from Nikon in the US with a card directly from Nikon. B&H has for sale a kit with a card, but also a cheap bag and filter. No doubt the bag and filter are added by B&H and I'm pretty sure the card is too. I've never seen a Z kit with a card that didn't have some other cheap stuff thrown in by the seller also.

It seems that Nikon realized buyers might have some trepidation about the XQD cards and created a kit with a starter card. Smart really. Too bad it didn't make it over to this side of the pond.

--
Jonathan

 

[jwilliams]

BTW, a memory card and a reader was included in my box. Isn't that the case any more? Even so, I am pretty sure that a serious shop would give you a good discount from the listed price if you are a good negotiator.

Real camera shops do not exist anywhere near me. Last one near me closed several years ago. They are rare to find anywhere in the US. Only place to even find a Z camera is a big retailor, Best Buy, and even then only select stores have them so I have to make a long drive to even look at one. They are not going to negotiate anything.

OK, but overnight web delivery is possible as well, if you would be in real emergency. My point was that it can't be a big deal how to get a new XQD if needed.

I was just thinking about what I'd do if somehow my card(s) were lost or had a problem on vacation. Not a big deal as I'd try to leave with at least 2, but I've been known to forget to pack little stuff like that.

I was primarily looking at the refurb deal on B&H with camera and lens but nothing else. A new Z6 can be bought in a kit with a 32 GB card, but the refurb was already a little over my budget. I'm not on an unlimited camera budget. If I have to spend a lot on extras that do not come with a camera that is already past my budget, eventually you get to a point where it no longer makes sense.

If you had to pay an extra $200 for your Z would you buy it? I'll guess yes. Another $200? Maybe? Another $200 over that? Is that too much? Another $200? Is the cost getting painful now? At some point that extra $200 makes the difference.

Reading the above and adding my own interpretation I know exactly what and how I would have done in your situation. Very simple. I would not buy a new camera at all, and definitely not the Z6. You are a hobbyist, your daily bread and milk is not dependent on the camera and you already have one or several very good ones. I would save the money and wait. No reason to rush.

It seems I'm heading the route of doing nothing in the near term. The reality is moving to Nikon has a lot of costs, not just the XQD card. My filters which are 77mm and fit almost all Canon L zooms don't fit anything in the Z system, That's several hundred more there also. Keeps adding up. I can easily buy a Canon R and all of the problems disappear as I have Canon glass already. I preferred the Nikon Z bodies to both the Canon and Sony so that's what got me going down the path of thinking of changing.

As has been true forever, changing brands/systems is always expensive. I've actually have never changed out my whole system except for migrating from Canon FD to EOS many years ago and that was done slowly over a few years. I also had more hobby money to go around then too.

Everyone has a point where they have to stop and say I'm not gonna pay the extra money.

Yes, true. But if the point is reached because of the price of the memory card then the best thing is not getting the camera which needs that card. Whining about the price won't make you richer.

Maybe I can get a job as a professional whiner!

It is true that the XQD is very expensive compared to the SD cards, but there are reasons for that. Yes, you may not NEED those benefits, but that is not the same thing as Nikon made the wrong decision about the usage of XQD. Use your power as consumer and don't buy the camera. That is the only way we consumers can demonstrate what we think.

I'm exercising my power as a consumer by just sitting here and doing nothing.

So the questions you should be asking is if you really need the Z6 or not, list all the pros and cons and see which list is longer and follow that path.

For now the cons just add up to more than I have to give to the camera gods at this moment so I'll sit back and watch. Nikon is rumored to be planning a lower spec model. Maybe that will be in the budget. I basically shoot static subjects and don't need lightning fast AF, the performance of XQD cards or about 90% of the stuff that is inside a modern camera. I'd love to have video just left out completely.

Actually I see a great opportunity for Nikon in a lower cost model. Canon has the RP and Sony has several older models still for sale cheap. I'm not sure what Nikon can cut from a Z6 to make it cheaper, but using SD will certainly make it more appealing to budget minded folks. Probably can go with a lower res VF. More polycarbonate body. They have the best body design out there and should capitalize on it. Add a good f5.6 kit lens and there will be lots of potential buyers. As has just been shown, once you're in a system it is expensive to get out. Hook the user with something semi-affordable and they generally are yours for life.

--
Jonathan