f70exr vs f200exr

[sncast]

All opinion are welcome!!
The mean reason to switch to F70 from F30 is zoom 270mm and anti-shake feature.
One of my main use is shooting my children in any situation (sport, game ecc...)
In this situation F30 is a little poor.

Stefano

 

[CAMMASTER]

Try before you buy , though, and see if your going to be happy with the photos , no point in fact a complete no no imo having great range and dissapointing pictures , was just my view you may be happy thats great,but if your used to F30 clarity and results like I am to, you might understand have to choose your next compact very carefully or dissapointed is a possible,and is jut my view,

Rhoda> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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I have my opinion and so I am allowed to give just my point of view

 

[Kim Letkeman]

me an anal pixle peeper !

That's the biggest problem in this forum today ... we have a few of those and they attack the F70 at every opportunity ...

However I agree that dumping the F30 before being sure might be a mistake ... just in case this affliction strikes ...

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[Kim Letkeman]

Try before you buy , though, and see if your going to be happy with the photos , no point in fact a complete no no imo having great range and dissapointing pictures , was just my view you may be happy thats great,but if your used to F30 clarity and results like I am to, you might understand have to choose your next compact very carefully or dissapointed is a possible,and is jut my view,

After a few dozen attacks ... saying "it's just my view" no longer really cuts it ... would suggest you start posting examples to show what you mean or consider giving up on the crusade ...

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[Kim Letkeman]

One good, no exellent black and white shot. , I dont see so many in black and white around, the girl is very pale, its different so thanks for showing

Thanks. The F70EXR handles low to moderate light masterfully ... this venue had horrid mixed colors (blue shaded light in a huge window and orange halogens above), so I was forced to push many images to black and white ...

Here are others at 1600 ISO for those who still doubt the F70EXR ...



















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[floyd2466]

Kim,

Its very obvious that you are a great photographer and clearly know your stuff, so when you say that the F70 beats the F200, its an opinion that is not to be taken lightly.

BUT, the fact that you are a great photographer who knows how to get the best out of the camera actually is not terribly helpful for real amateurs, as many of us on this post are.

I don't mean t to be rude, but as non-experts,I think most of us actually value the opinions of 'mediocre' photographers, who can give us a more realistic idea of what we can expect out of our camera...and from browsing through several pictures from both cameras, the quality of the F200 does indeed seem superior to that of the F70 unless you really have the skill and know-how to get the very best out of the camera - which most of us do not.

Having said that, there are many features in the F70 that are actually designed to appeal to amateurs, such as the 10* zoom...

Not owning either camera, I could well be talking off the top of my hat, and if so, stand corrected. But having spent considerable time browsing through this forum and looking at people's photos, I'd say the choice for most is: do you want a camera that takes slightly better quality pix, or d you want one with additional features, such as a more powerful zoom?

 

[CAMMASTER]

Try before you buy , though, and see if your going to be happy with the photos , no point in fact a complete no no imo having great range and dissapointing pictures , was just my view you may be happy thats great,but if your used to F30 clarity and results like I am to, you might understand have to choose your next compact very carefully or dissapointed is a possible,and is jut my view,

After a few dozen attacks ... saying "it's just my view" no longer really cuts it ... would suggest you start posting examples to show what you mean or consider giving up on the crusade ...

--
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And I am allowed it my view,, So forgive me for asking you not to attack me for it, ,, I dont post examples but have viewed many, liked some of yours Kim, tried out the cams if youve noticed and its not an attack at all the F70 dissapoints some they can mention it,

Try before you buy was my view yes,because I did and was dissapointed , you whinging if any one dare to not be able to like the F70 seems to be your own yawn crusade, and that F70 fanboy view in my view considering the very mostly just average pictures Ive seen from ithe F70 on this forum no longer cuts it either Kim sadly !

Here is anouther view take a look at Lloydy Paul and Adam F200 results for better much better in my view picture quality than what most F70 shooters ever show on these forums,just happens to be anouther one of my views .

Anal Pixle peeper did you say, meaning those who dare to choose the F200, thats one of your views that sucks Kim..

Rhoda
I have my opinion and so I am allowed to give just my point of view

 

[CAMMASTER]

Kim,

Its very obvious that you are a great photographer and clearly know your stuff, so when you say that the F70 beats the F200, its an opinion that is not to be taken lightly.

BUT, the fact that you are a great photographer who knows how to get the best out of the camera actually is not terribly helpful for real amateurs, as many of us on this post are.

I don't mean t to be rude, but as non-experts,I think most of us actually value the opinions of 'mediocre' photographers, who can give us a more realistic idea of what we can expect out of our camera...and from browsing through several pictures from both cameras, the quality of the F200 does indeed seem superior to that of the F70 unless you really have the skill and know-how to get the very best out of the camera - which most of us do not.

Having said that, there are many features in the F70 that are actually designed to appeal to amateurs, such as the 10* zoom...

Not owning either camera, I could well be talking off the top of my hat, and if so, stand corrected. But having spent considerable time browsing through this forum and looking at people's photos, I'd say the choice for most is: do you want a camera that takes slightly better quality pix, or d you want one with additional features, such as a more powerful zoom?

More than slightly better is my view after trying both, yours is though one very sensible point of view you write here floyd 24466 , I would say youve nailed it pretty much just how it is , Pity some dummies are spat out if you have an oppisite view , lots of fun the F70 its great if you can do what Kim can do , but for average joe like me the F200 does better , is just my point of view.

Rhoda
I have my opinion and so I am allowed to give just my point of view

 

[Kim Letkeman]

I don't mean t to be rude, but as non-experts,I think most of us actually value the opinions of 'mediocre' photographers, who can give us a more realistic idea of what we can expect out of our camera...and from browsing through several pictures from both cameras, the quality of the F200 does indeed seem superior to that of the F70 unless you really have the skill and know-how to get the very best out of the camera - which most of us do not.

Well ... the two differences often touted my pixel peepers are:

• CA at wide angle
• blur in corners at wide angle

The cure for both of those is to zoom in just a touch. Also, some of us shoot in 3:2 to crop away the corners and never see much blur. Others choose to get rid of the cam instead of doing that .... each to his own.

I have touched neither of these in the photos in that post. The conversion to black and white could have been handled in cam had I chosen to ... but I prefer to convert in CS4.

And yes, I change the contrast in my images ... but I cannot manufacture detail that is not there.

Having said that, there are many features in the F70 that are actually designed to appeal to amateurs, such as the 10* zoom...

And pro low light and zoom in video ...

Not owning either camera, I could well be talking off the top of my hat, and if so, stand corrected. But having spent considerable time browsing through this forum and looking at people's photos, I'd say the choice for most is: do you want a camera that takes slightly better quality pix, or d you want one with additional features, such as a more powerful zoom?

And by slightly better, we're really taking about the two things I quote above.

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[Kim Letkeman]

More than slightly better is my view after trying both, yours is though one, very sensible point of view you write floyd 24466

Besides some CA and blur in corners at 27mm, what else did you find that caused you problems?

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[CAMMASTER]

More than slightly better is my view after trying both, yours is though one, very sensible point of view you write floyd 24466

Besides some CA and blur in corners at 27mm, what else did you find that caused you problems?

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-Not so much those Issues you mention, mostly a mottled skin unclear blur most seen in faces skin hair my cats fur and whiskers, is that why your girl in the black and white shot youve lightened her face , seems so, is it to hide some blur I dont know Kim,, of course its 1600iso and a great shot at that high ISO,compared mind to the F200, I can honestly say my feeble results show for certain not so much clarity out of the F70, is it because the sensor very tiny ! ,

Spent hours and hours testing them both all iso's but like to use low ones, looking for clarity not concert video Kim,, had similar Issues with the TZ7 but these F70 shots (apart from yours are good) do not seem to match the F200 shots most times I see that and what we see here all the time ,

Those arejust my findings no crusade , had then for over a week all three , queston did you ever really try out the F200 forgive my asking , I dont know what could you do with that I expect exeptionall stuff , but it wont do concerts so you seem to hate it , your crusade Kim..

Rhoda
I have my opinion and so I am allowed to give just my point of view

 

[Kim Letkeman]

And I am allowed it my view,, So forgive me for asking you not to attack me for it

I am not attacking you. But now that you've decided to respond to every post with negative opinions on the F70, I am going to ask you to back those up with something more substantial. Surely you have collected a reference or two that shows what you dislike about the F70EXR.

Try before you buy was my view yes

And an excellent view. But at the same time, you are not shy about saying things like "the F200 is more than a little better than the F70" without really substantiating what you mean. You don;t even give a shopping list of areas you feel are better.

because I did and was dissapointed , you whinging if any one dare to not be able to like the F70 seems to be your own yawn crusade

I am approaching a thousand examples showing why I like the camera and over two dozen articles on my blog.

That I ask for even a little substantiation for constant attacks (which I realize are just opinions to you) is fair I think.

and that F70 fanboy view in my view considering the very mostly just average pictures Ive seen from ithe F70 on this forum no longer cuts it either Kim sadly !

Well, I can see that you are wanting to take this ad hominem, however I will ignore the attempted insult.

Yes, I am a fan of the F70 ... but I have documented its issues many times and I have documented reasonable cures too ...

Here is anouther view take a look at Lloydy Paul and Adam F200 results for better much better in my view picture quality than what most F70 shooters ever show on these forums,just happens to be anouther one of my views .

Disagree ... Dave shoots the same images over and over and his latest images are not at all as good as his previous images ... the F200 is not serving him well at all because he insists on settings that blow highlights all over the place.

Adam has published tests to show that high res is better on the F200 ... granted. And not relevant much of the time.

And Paul has published some photos that look nice enough.

But honestly ... that total body of work does not constitute some form of crushing victory for the F200 in my opinion

And a lot of people have been posting excellent images from the F70 lately ...

Anal Pixle peeper did you say

No ... you said it yourself. Go back and read your own post.

meaning those who dare to choose the F200, thats one of your views that sucks Kim..

Don't try to add meaning to what I write that is not explicitly there ...

When I say that the F200 and F70 shot at high res do poorly even in good light ... it is because I can see it at 800px ... waves get flattened, distant foliage turns to mush ... shadow noise cranks up ... these are real effects ...

But when people say that the F70 is worse than the F200 at high res, they have to post 100% crops to show it ...

Which is my point ... as a general purpose camera, the F70 is head and shoulders above the F200 because of its features ... but for pixel peepers who obsess in front of their monitors at 100%, the F70 is anathema ...

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[Kim Letkeman]

-Not so much tha Issue, mostly a mottled unclear blur most seen in faces hair compared mind to the F200, can honestly say not so much clarity is the F70 sensor not tiny ! ,

Not sure I can parse that last part, but I think you are saying that the F70EXR blurs faces and hair ... yet you see many images posted that show it does not do that at all.

Do you have an example?

Spent hours and hours testing them both all iso's but like to use low ones, looking for clarity not concert video Kim

I bought the ZS3 for concert videos.

And clarity at concerts is a heck of a test ... the F70 has passed that test many times for me.

Got an example of one of your tests?

had similar Issues with the TZ7 but these F70 shots (apart from yours are good) do not seem to match the F200 shots most times I see that andwhat we see here all the time ,

"do not seem to" ... could you be more wishy washy?

When you publish constant attacks (veiled as opinions) you need to be clear on what you don't like. And a few examples (which you should have from your extensive testing as documented above) would be extremely helpful.

Those arejust my findings no crusade

When you attack constantly without publishing your findings (telling us that you ran extensive tests but then not showing us even one example is not findings ... it is anecdote or opinion) is a crusade.

3. any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc

had then for over a week all three , queston did you ever really try out the F200 forgive my asking , I dont know what could you do with that I expect exeptionall stuff but it wont do concerts so you seem to hate it ..

Why would I try the F200? The F70 met all my requirements, had the same sensor tricks, and several more ...

You forget that I examined hundreds of images very closely (quite a differenc process from yours I would imagine) and concluded that I was not that impressed with what people were doing with it ... and I already had the same reach with the G10.

But when I got the F70 for its reach, I realized that most people were shooting the F200 wrong ... and many still do ... so I documented the best settings I could find.

Now ... you have a right to your opinion, but if you persist in dogging the F70 the way you do I intend to challenge your posts from now on. You say you tested them extensively, so put together a few examples and use them to document what you dislike.

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[CAMMASTER]

Now I'm trying to switch from F30 to a new Fuji with anti blur option and long zoom.

Long zoom == F70EXR ... best one on the planet right now. Second best is ZS3. I own both. Canon SX200 is a viable alternative but does not have Fuji's low light nor Panny's video/audio.

My question is if it's better f70 with optic zoom 10x or f200 with short zoom and digital zoom 2x for example ( for shot at same 270mm equivalent ).

Nope ... F200 is creamed by the F70 in a long reach contest.

Optical is better in f200 and sensor is much larger, I presume.

Although it is larger (much is really stretching it), it appears that Fuji did some nice work in the jpeg engine of the F70 ... it does very well at 1600 ISO as I just posted to some one else ... but here it is again:



There is a weakness in the F70 for slight blur at 27mm ... shoot 3:2 to fix that ... or zoom in a touch.

There is a weakness for CA at 27mm ... again zoom in a touch. CA strikes much less often than you would think it would ... but when it hits, it hits hard. Still ... you see far fewer images ruined by CA than you would have thought ...

For moving objects which is better?

F70 has fast AF ... not sure that it is faster, but it surely is no slower. Everything had to be boosted (AF, stabilzation) to handle such a long zoom and it shows.

Any suggestion is welcome.

KIMS VIEW SEE IT BELOW !

This is not a contest ... only the most anal pixel peeper would choose an F200 over an F70 these days ...

Thats me then ! chose a F200, I am a MAPP (. most anal pixle peeper ) thats a bit of a bummer thanks a lot Kim

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I have my opinion and so I am allowed to give just my point of view

 

[Lloydy]

... You are so full of 'it', it is not funny. The F200 EXR creams the F70 EXR. Yes, the F70 EXR has more reach, but way less IQ.

I find it really weird that you lambasted the EXR sensor when it was released, yet now you promote the F70 EXR like there was no tomorrow.

Except on the Panasonic forum. Yes, I do read the posts.

You really are so 'two faced', it is a miracle you can see yourself in a mirror.
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[Lloydy]

... F200 EXR has better IQ - However, less reach.

Some samples.

Unedited - http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_18_4.htm

Mildly edited - http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_18_1.htm

Cheers.
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[Kim Letkeman]

... You are so full of 'it', it is not funny.

Well, since you refuse to define "it", I will add my own definition: humour. And therefore it is, in fact, very funny.

You appear to have missed the point about substantiation

The F200 EXR creams the F70 EXR.

I presume you mean "in order to make a broth" ...

Because it most certainly does not cream anything in a straight up image quality contest ...

And again ...

You appear to have missed the point about substantiation

Yes, the F70 EXR has more reach, but way less IQ.

It would therefore follow that, between me and you, you have more reach.

I find it really weird that you lambasted the EXR sensor when it was released, yet now you promote the F70 EXR like there was no tomorrow.

If it would help you for to type this really slowly ... I would. Let me just try saying it straight to see if you get it:

I am asking for examples and substantiation for Rhoda's constant remarks on how the F200 is more than a little better than the F70.

This is something I always did myself. And yes, I attacked the EXR sensor when it first came out ... but that's because people were not yet shooting it optimally.

Of course, you just said outright that the F200 "creams" the F70, which means you have the same issues. I'm sure Rhoda appreciates the company.

Except on the Panasonic forum. Yes, I do read the posts.

Do you really think I care what you read?

If you could put together a few cogent thoughts on the technical differences between the F70EXR, teh F200EXR and the ZS3 then we might have something to discuss. As it is, all I get from you is words like "creams" without substantiation.

You really are so 'two faced', it is a miracle you can see yourself in a mirror.

If I were two faced, I could see myself in the mirror whether it was before me or behind me ... but let's not let logic intrude on your insults

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[Kim Letkeman]

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[jonrobertp]

are slower to operate..from start to first shot about 2x the time lag. S90 is in my pocket, F200...looking to sell it. Never want a sensor smaller than 1.6 or 1.7.
You can spend your money any way you like, but you can only spend it once !!

 

[Lloydy]

... You still miss the point.

So many have shown that the F200 EXR has better IQ than the F70 EXR. Your petty, and misguided sleights at me, aside, it has been shown many times.

What is you always say about 'ad hominem' ?

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