Extreme cold and camera hangs?

[Poul Jensen]

Well, I guess I didn't express myself very well. Of course camera hangs can be temperature related. The real question is, what exactly is going wrong and if it can be helped.

Canon's operating temperature range is obviously conservative. Apart from short battery life and sluggish LCDs I've had these cameras working just fine in -25F, so that's why I'm not really expecting it to be the camera. But then I wasn't remote controlling the camera, the camera is aging, maybe a different combination of camera settings etc. - who knows what could end up triggering a camera hang. I was hoping to get more specific pointers towards this.

By now I strongly suspect that it was the external battery package not being up to the task of taking photos every 5 seconds for very long in the cold. This would seem obvious; what threw me off was that I thought the camera would power off when battery got too low - that had been my experience so far. But perhaps if the low voltage condition is temporary, like right after a pulse discharge (e.g. triggering the shutter), maybe it will just cause an error resulting in the hang while not shutting off. And then with the camera no longer taking photos, the battery slowly recovers and can keep the camera powered on for a long time after the hang.

I believe a better battery package will do the job. If I can get around to testing it (I'm awaiting new batteries, and weather warmed up too) and verify that that solves the problem I will write up a summary.

 

[Poul Jensen]

Thanks. The interesting part of the article was:

"After 4.5 hours, the camera started to give ERR 99 messages after every shot. The shutter still was functioning fine, but the camera did not seem to be able to process the capture or write it to the card."

That was with a 20D in -9F - -15F. Perhaps an ERR 99 is the outcome when the camera truly can't handle the cold anymore - or the outcome of a failing CF card; it has been mentioned that some cards may not be able to handle cold temperatures. I have used my 300D/350D in -25F and winds without failures, but only for an hour or so.

 

[lekofraggle]

I thought the err99 was just a general error. I do not know though. I was out last week for a long while with my 400d, and then took the star trail shot I took here http://www.ipernity.com/doc/jrothritchie/1517383which had a 30 min. exposure. I think it was around 0º F. I already posted it elsewhere in another thread so I thought I would just toss a link to it on my Ipernity site.

I do have a battery grip which I use on cold nights, but have not had any problem. That being said, I always use my camera on full manual with the remote shutter release (cable not IR or computer) and it is on the tripod so no IS (although I did make that mistake during the eclipse doh.. oh well, I just have to wait a few more years for the next one, at least I will have learned a few more hard lessons by then). I have also had the noise reduction on auto because of some other issues I had in the past with odd noise (which made that half hour shutter speed turn into an hour because the camera needed it). I also use mirror lockup. Anyway, knock on wood, I have not had a problem yet.

I am still using one of the batteries from that night without needing to recharge it, and have taken many cold temp (without the grip as well as with) pictures since. I know batteries can be the cause, but I have not had an issue.

I wonder if the culprit is not your computer, I know that computers (unless it is a toughbook hate cold weather. Of course, as has been stated our cameras are not too fond of it either.

Sincerely,
Leko
--
http://www.ipernity.com/home/jrothritchie

 

[Poul Jensen]

The ERR 99 is indeed a general error (which is pretty annoying because it leaves you helpless), and I was thinking that whatever in the camera is the first to fail due to cold temperatures might very well trigger this error.

I believe I can rule the laptop out. I reproduced the camera hang with the laptop sitting inside and the camera and battery package outside. However, running the camera from software on a laptop makes for a much more complicated setup and correspondingly increases the potential for errors. I have ordered a couple of Pclix boxes because they seem like a much simpler and hence less error prone solution.

 

[lekofraggle]

Thanks, that is good to know about the error for future reference. I just did a little digging through EXIF and weather underground to find the particulars on my last excusion. It was 7ºF with a 9 mile an hour wind. This makes the wind chill around -7 (which I believe does effect the camera more than just ambient temp.) and I was out for about an hour and a half with no problems. The boxes sound like a good idea, but perhaps just a cable remote may be better (unless there are no batteries in the click boxes, then I assume they act as a timed cable release). How long are you shooting for? Is it possible the cards are not fast enough for the amount of data you are collecting? I am using the Sandisk Extreme III.

Just some thoughts,
Leko

--
http://www.ipernity.com/home/jrothritchie

 

[Robert 55]

AFAIK in most definitions of wind chill it only applies to humans [and animals].

The cooling of an inanimate object in a high wind may go faster, but it won't get colder than the ambient temp

It was 7ºF with a 9 mile
an hour wind. This makes the wind chill around -7 (which I believe
does effect the camera more than just ambient temp.) and I was out
for about an hour and a half with no problems.
Leko

 

[Colin Peart]

That's right to the best of my knowledge as well.

The wind chill affects the rate at which things cool off rather than the temperature they reach. However, it will mean that what little heat is generated by the camera and by discharging the battery packs is generated will be siphoned off sooner.

 

[lekofraggle]

thanks for the correction.
--
http://www.ipernity.com/home/jrothritchie

 

[Poul Jensen]

The boxes sound like
a good idea, but perhaps just a cable remote may be better (unless
there are no batteries in the click boxes, then I assume they act as
a timed cable release). How long are you shooting for?

The setup should be able to run for several hours. The Pclix box works as an advanced wired remote (or wireless remote for the camera models that support it) that can be programmed to have the camera take photos at intervals from splitseconds to days. It runs off 2 AAA batteries, and when it's cold I can use lithium batteries since they work fine to -40F, so that won't be a problem. The critical issue is to have a battery that can power the camera for a shot every few seconds (maybe down to 2 sec with my new 40D), several thousands shots, without dropping too low in voltage even in subzero (Fahrenheit) temperatures. There's a good chance my new high capacity Li-Ion packages will do; the battery I was using when the issues occured is several years old and only 7.2V (should be 7.4V).

Is it possible the cards are not fast enough for the amount of data you are
collecting? I am using the Sandisk Extreme III.

Nope. Photos were going to the laptop, not the CF card. They could go to the CF card, but even so, the software can't operate the camera until the previous shot has been completely processed, including writing it to the card or downloading it. This won't be the case with the Pclix, but the write time to the card is so short that it won't become a problem in practice. I shoot medium resolution jpgs for these time lapses, using Sandisk Ultra II and Transcend 133x cards which are fast enough for me.