Exposure compensation with A2 in manual mode

[Wile E]

I would like the camera to give me the exact exposure compenstation (like -1/3 or +2/3 ect) for a choosen metering mode in manual.

For what I have found with the A2 I can only use the actual brightness of the viewfinder, the histogram or the red dot (totaly useless since it doesn't even responds to small stop changes) for determining the exposure.

Does the A2 really not indicate the actual exposure stops in actual numbers (like even my P&S cameras do). I can not find anything in the manual and I hope someone can help me.

RW

 

[Ferenc MOGOR]

I would like the camera to give me the exact exposure compenstation
(like -1/3 or +2/3 ect) for a choosen metering mode in manual.

Well, well, ...since you are in Manual mode the camera will do nothing for you. Manual means manual, i.e. you are taking over total control of your machine. All you can do is set aperture, shutter speed and ISO,...manually. While exposure compensation will only work in priority modes like P, A and S.

For what I have found with the A2 I can only use the actual
brightness of the viewfinder, the histogram or the red dot (totaly
useless since it doesn't even responds to small stop changes) for
determining the exposure.

What do you exactly mean by red dot? Red dot is supposed to mean that the camera was unable to make a focus lock, so try again!

Does the A2 really not indicate the actual exposure stops in actual
numbers (like even my P&S cameras do). I can not find anything in
the manual and I hope someone can help me.

Yes it does, ...but only in priority modes.

Hope this was helpful! ;-)

--
Cheers, Feri

'I can look at a fine photograph and sometimes I can hear music. Ansel Adams.'

 

[robber576]

I also never found it.
Very strange that such a basic function is missing.

Same with the histogram: it is a X-Y diagram of exposure vs colour but where is scale?

 

[Ferenc MOGOR]

I also never found it.
Very strange that such a basic function is missing.

What basic function are you talking about, Mate? Repeat: manual mode is manual mode!!!!! You are in total control of your camera in manual mode. The camera's algorithms that calculate compensation values for a given priority setting are turned off!!!! You adjust the aperture and the shutter speed by yourself!!! Or in other words: you are the one who makes the compensation!!! ;-)

Same with the histogram: it is a X-Y diagram of exposure vs colour
but where is scale?

Scale is in your head, Mate! Left side is black while right side is white, but if they touch the Y axle with any value over zero you're gonna have an underexposed pic in case of blacks or an over exposed pic in case of whites. So simple!

And the historgam is not a diagram of exposure vs. color, but exposure vs. brightness/shadows, simply speaking!!



--
Cheers, Feri

'I can look at a fine photograph and sometimes I can hear music. Ansel Adams.'

 

[Wile E]

Manual means you choose the aperture and shutter time but that does not mean that the camera cannot tell you how your choosed settings compare to it metered exposure (and I would like to choose spot for that).

Robber576 is absolutely right that this is a basic feature that you will actually learn to work with with every basic photo course. Every DSRL has this, most P&S cameras do have this feature. So my question is why not the A2 (or at least I cannot find it).

RW

 

[robber576]

What ts probably means: with my 700Si i had the following tecnique in Manual mode

Jou meter your subject and in the viewfinder you can see a bargraph showing from +2 to -2 and it will show you how your actual exposure is compared to what you have adjusted on aperture and shutterspeed.

You just turn the aperture or shutterspeed wheel until the bargraph shows "0" or the value you prefer or think is necessary, the value depends on what you (spot)meter.

Example: i spot meter on a white(caucasian) person and know (by experiance) i have to apply a +1 1/3 stop correction to get correct skin tones.

I can accomplish this by turning either aperture or speed and play with the values to get the right combination of dof and/or impression of speed

In my experiance this is the fastest way to get exposure always correct and still have full control on speed and dof.

Look the picture: http://spotmetering.com/sp700si/newpage1.htm
ts and i are missing the bargraph

 

[Wile E]

I would like the camera to give me the exact exposure compenstation
(like -1/3 or +2/3 ect) for a choosen metering mode in manual.

Well, well, ...since you are in Manual mode the camera will do
nothing for you. Manual means manual, i.e. you are taking over
total control of your machine. All you can do is set aperture,
shutter speed and ISO,...manually. While exposure compensation will
only work in priority modes like P, A and S.

You are wrong. You cannot set expsosure compensation as a function but you will set exposure compensation by your choosed settings. A camera is perfectly capable in manual mode to tell you what the resulting exposure stops are for your choosed settings. How else can it make the shutter/aperture red (that was what I meant not the red dot) when you do not expose correctly in manual mode???

For what I have found with the A2 I can only use the actual
brightness of the viewfinder, the histogram or the red dot (totaly
useless since it doesn't even responds to small stop changes) for
determining the exposure.

What do you exactly mean by red dot? Red dot is supposed to mean
that the camera was unable to make a focus lock, so try again!

I mean the red shutter/aperture.

RW

 

[Wile E]

Are you telling me that the A2 indeed cannot do this...

RW

 

[robber576]

To put it even more simplistic: ts and me are missing the old type exposure index in the viewfinder.

The histogram is from a technical point of view of course "superiour" but it does not give you a simple message " you are spot on" exposure with these settings.

You have to interpret the histogram and this is a different way of working then with the old style expore metering in a analog camera.

Other example: i can use my 700si as a very precise spot meter in manual mode, the camera can give me exact the same information as my autometerIV, this is not possible with the A2

 

[Wile E]

Other example: i can use my 700si as a very precise spot meter in
manual mode, the camera can give me exact the same information as
my autometerIV, this is not possible with the A2

Ai, I was affraid of this. What were they thinking to take this out? It is such a nice camera in every other aspect, but this is very big con

RW

 

[tonymp]

When you set the camera to manual mode - you can still retain the use of auto focus, but YOU are in charge of the exposure - this overides/negates the camera's auto settings.

If you need to + or - the exposure, just adjust the aperture up or down to get the compensation you require! ie: say you chose f5.6 ...then say you wanted an extra 1/3 of a stop reduction ( or either direction) you could then choose f6.7 or if the exposure is in natural light, you could also adjust the shutter speed up or down for compensation.

Manual means just what is says - manual. Simply use either aperture or shutter speed where appropriate to correct the exposure!

If you don't have a hand held meter for your exposures, you can still get a pretty accurate exposure by first using the spot metering facility in one of the auto modes and then transfer this reading to the manual setting. Then refine the exposure by the methods I've outlined.
Tony

 

[Ferenc MOGOR]

OK, ...if you guys are such experts then I don't think I need to give you any more guidance on the A2, nor will I look up the exact page numbers in the A2's manual, ...you are big boys, ...do can do it by yourself!!

Good luck and happy shooting to Ya both!!!

Post some nice and well exposed pix when you are ready!

--
Cheers, Feri

'I can look at a fine photograph and sometimes I can hear music. Ansel Adams.'

 

[robber576]

Well, from a technical point of view the histogram is a more "foolproof" way of metering since the horizontal range of the histogram represents the contrast range of the camera or more simplistic said ; it shows you the complete exposure range in which the camera is capable of producing an image.

The range depends on camera settings for contrast and EX base value(iso adjustment).

This al works well if you meter from the assumption that you want ALL light values to fall in the dynamic range of the camera.

If you work on the principal that in a portrait only the face is of importance and you want the skintone value exact right(+ 1 1/3 stop over 19% grey) regardles the rest of the image then you have a problem with a A2......

 

[Wile E]

Just look at below post from robber576, he describes it perfectly...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=21533209

RW

 

[robber576]

Well, it is not my stile to use such a tone at fellow photographers in a matter of (probably) mutual confusion.

Whe probably do not understand each other, and saying "sort it out yourself if you are so smart" does not really help.

Although i have no question that Ferenc MOGOR probably is a capable photographer i wonder if he has ever used an old analog camera and/or developed his own film b/w ,slide or colour.

If he did he would know and understand what ts and i are talking about.....

 

[tonymp]

Just look at below post from robber576, he describes it perfectly...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=21533209

RW

Yeah - virtually the same as what I've said!

I've used the A2 et al, 1000's of times as a polaroid substitute for my neg film work - I get perfect exposures and I don't need exposure compensation in manual to get them!

I never work in anything else but manual! None of my MF cameras are auto anything. I have a metered prism but never use it!
Something to think about!

When a camera setting is compensated either way - how do you think the in-camera settings work? Think carefully about it and next time try it and see what the actual exposure was and how it was reached! The camera is an electro mechanical device - that should help.
Tony

 

[robber576]

If you don't have a hand held meter for your exposures, you can
still get a pretty accurate exposure by first using the spot
metering facility in one of the auto modes and then transfer this
reading to the manual setting. Then refine the exposure by the
methods I've outlined.
Tony

This is the tecnique i am using currently and although it solves the problem it is not a speedy way of taking a picture.

It is a pitty the minolta engineers "forgot" to implement such a simple tool which has been in slr cameras since the addition of a exposure meter in slr's

All the technology is in the camera to implement it, it probably would only need a few lines of code in the firmware.....

 

[Wile E]

OK, ...if you guys are such experts then I don't think I need to
give you any more guidance on the A2, nor will I look up the exact
page numbers in the A2's manual, ...you are big boys, ...do can do
it by yourself!!

This is a kind of childish response only to avoid the real discussion...

You have the live histogram on your A2, right? And believe me it will work in manual mode too. So the camera does meter also in manual mode only you decide what to do with that information and not the camera. In other words in manual mode the camera can still tell you if your choosed settings result in under or overexposure and by which value. Unfortunately KM has choosen not to share this information with the A2 user by means of an exposure bar or indication, although this is normally a basic camera feature on ALL cameras that have M-mode (and for good reasons, that you will obviously be familiar with...).

So yes seeing your above response I doubt we need your guidance on exposure, but I do value your guidance on the A2. I simply could not imagine that KM would have left out something basic and crucial like an exposure bar or indication on the A2 and therefore I posted this thread to find out whether it was really not included with the camera or that I did not read the manual well (although I looked for it quite some times). Unfortunately I learned that it is indeed not a feature of the A2 because KM probably decided that the live histogram was enough...but it isn't

RW

 

[Ferenc MOGOR]

This is a trolling thread!

Dear KMTF members, please stay away from posting here!

It usually starts smoothly, like putting naiv questions like exp. comp. in manual mode, then it starts to develop into personalized bashing of posters (like myself) and then will continue in a way we will all regret we ever bought the A2!

I'm out of here!

Remember Gound Rule # 1: never feed the trolls!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Cheers, Feri

'I can look at a fine photograph and sometimes I can hear music. Ansel Adams.'

 

[robber576]

Wile E wrote:
I never work in anything else but manual! None of my MF cameras are
auto anything. I have a metered prism but never use it!

Yhis still gives me the idea that it is not understood what i and ts are missing.

If an A2 in A- or S- mode can tell me what correct exposure is, for instance f;5.6 at 1/60sec , why can't the camera tell me that in M-mode?

If in the same situation in M mode i have made settings for lets say f;8 at 1/60 sec why can't the camera then tell me i am 1 stop underexposing?
A bargraph can tell me this....