Exposure comp not working on A7RV when Godox flash is attached

[Patrick Murphy]

I have an A7RV, software version 1.00.

Exposure compensation works fine when I do not have a flash attached. For example, +1.0 makes the scene on the back monitor brighter, +2.0 makes it even brighter. When I take the picture (no flash), the JPG is brighter at +1.0 and even brighter at +2.0

When I attach a Godox V1 flash, I continue to see on the back monitor the +1.0 brighter or +2.0 even brighter image.

BUT... when the photo is actually taken (shutter clicked), the exposure compensation does nothing. Even if exposure comp is set to +1.0 or +2.0, the JPG's ambient exposure (not counting the flash) looks the same as a ±0.0 exposure compensation setting.

This is of course not what I want. When using the flash, I want to be able to control the ambient exposure separately from the flash exposure. I don't want the ambient always to be at ±0.0 no matter what the exposure compensation is set to.

My questions are: Has this happened to anyone else? Is there any rational reason that "this is supposed to be how it works?"

Note that I have the "Exposure comp. set" menu on "Ambient only". This means it only affects the ambient; not the flash plus the ambient.

My other settings are: Flash mode - Fill-flash, Flash Comp. - ±0.0, Wireless flash - Off. Metering mode - Multi. I was in Aperture mode with a fixed ISO (1600). I tried at both f/4 and f/6.3, and in both AF-S and AF-C.

This happens no matter whether I set the exposure compensation using the menu, or when I set it using the dial on the top right (with the white pop-up/pop-down lock).

I tried two different Godox V1 flashes, both with Version 1.4 software. One has a metal foot; the other has the older plastic foot. And this effect happens whether I am in Manual mode or TTL on the flash.

I don't want to buy a Sony-brand flash. It probably works correctly but it is expensive plus I'm heavily invested in using Godox for off-camera flash.

Thanks for any insight or solutions.

 

[Fujiuseruk]

The ttl is simply correcting the exposure.

you might need to also alter the flash compensation as well or use flash exposure lock before changing the ambient.

 

[Patrick Murphy]

Interesting theory, but as I wrote “…this effect happens whether I am in Manual mode or TTL on the flash.”

Plus I would think even using TTL that if I set exposure compensation to +1.0 or +2.0, the camera would give me that as the ambient, and then the flash exposure would be on top of that. Instead the camera ignores the exposure compensation, and ambient is always at 0.0 when the flash is on (whether the flash is in Manual or TTL mode).

 

[MILC man]

that seems like a reasonable request, what does the manual say? because there are some things that only work with a sony flash, per the manual.

 

[SQLGuy]

When you attach an MI flash, the camera automatically disables setting effect, which means it's no longer trying to simulate exposure in the EVF or LCD... instead it's showing you a bright simage so you can more easily compose the shot.

If you want to see what the shot would look like if the flash added no light, you need to engage shot result preview.

To change the amount of light the flash will add (you still won't see this until you actually take the shot), use flash exposure compensation (FEC).

 

[MILC man]

When you attach an MI flash, the camera automatically disables setting effect, which means it's no longer trying to simulate exposure in the EVF or LCD...

not with a sony brand flash, which is why he needs to read the manual and see if a 3rd-party flash is handled differently in this situation:

"Exposure Effect: Sets whether or not to display the Live View with automatic correction by reflecting the exposure from the flash when [Live View Display] is set to [Setting Effect ON]. ([Exposure Set. & flash] / [Exposure Setting Only])

When using the flash for shooting a portrait, select [Exposure Setting Only] to manually set the exposure based on the ambient lighting.

Flash Effect dur Sht.: Sets whether or not to apply the effect of the flash to the live view display when shooting with the flash. ([Flash Effect ON]/[Flash Effect OFF])"

https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2040/v1/en/contents/TP1000384764.html

that's for the a1, but i think that the a7rv only has exposure effect... need to read the manual.

 

[Patrick Murphy]

When you attach an MI flash, the camera automatically disables setting effect, which means it's no longer trying to simulate exposure in the EVF or LCD... instead it's showing you a bright simage so you can more easily compose the shot.

If you want to see what the shot would look like if the flash added no light, you need to engage shot result preview.

To change the amount of light the flash will add (you still won't see this until you actually take the shot), use flash exposure compensation (FEC).

I understand about the setting effect (simulating the exposure as if the flash were firing). I did mention what things look like on the monitor on the back. But my concern is with the final JPG photos -- what is the exposure there.

Whether I have setting effect on or off, and no matter what the exposure compensation is set to, if I am using my Godox flashes, the final JPG uses the ±0.0 exposure compensation for the ambient.

I also understand about flash exposure compensation. Again, that is not my concern. My goal is to have the camera use the exposure compensation setting for the ambient, and then whatever the flash is set to for the flash (whether M or TTL).

Example: I'm shooting with flash in a dark room. I increase the exposure compensation to bring up the background. But when the flash fires, the A7RV uses no exposure compensation so the background is dark.

 

[Patrick Murphy]

I read both the manual and Friedman's A7RV guide. I tried different menu settings. Nothing has worked. I still have the problem of my Sony A7RV camera ignoring my exposure compensation (for ambient only) when I shoot with a Godox V1 flash.

I did try some other things. If I slide the flash out of the shoe just enough so the front pins don't connect, but the center pin connects, the flash will fire and the camera (correctly) uses the exposure compensation I set for the ambient.

But as soon as I push the flash forward so the front pins connect, when the flash fires, the camera (incorrectly) uses no exposure compensation for the ambient, no matter what I have the exposure compensation dial set to.

I tried some other Godox flashes. I have two Godox Zoom 350S, the smaller mini flashes. Unfortunately, I get exactly the same results.

I then tried all four of my Godox flashes on my Sony A6400. And I get the same result there as well.

I guess the good news is that there's nothing wrong with my Sony A7RV (for example, I thought maybe the pins in the flash shoe were damaged), since the same thing happened with my Sony A6400.

I will check with some friends who have various Sony cameras and brands of flash (including Sony) to see if they are able to set the exposure compensation for ambient and have the camera not ignore it when using flash.

 

[Jacques Cornell]

I am using Godox TT350S flashes on my new a7IV and a7RV for event work, and EC does, indeed, work the way you are seeking and that I prefer - it adjusts the ambient exposure without changing the flash exposure. Note that there is a setting in the camera menu that lets you choose whether EC should include or exclude flash exposure.

 

[am2am]

I will check with some friends who have various Sony cameras and brands of flash (including Sony) to see if they are able to set the exposure compensation for ambient and have the camera not ignore it when using flash.

Did you have a chance to test it with other flashes?

I'm experiencing the same with TT350 (exposure compensation for ambient not working as expected with godox) - considering sony flash despite being more expensive.

 

[DenverSteve]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see that you are shooting in shutter-priority. If not, try using your aperture to control your flash and your shutter speed to control your ambient. Or, shoot in whatever program/manual you use for your basic exposure and adjust the flash to fill the ambient by controlling the flash output manually.

 

[Easy Lee]

Note that there is a setting in the camera menu that lets you choose whether EC should include or exclude flash exposure.

I realize this is an old thread, but since you reactivated it I might as well chime in.

The setting you are mentioning is called Exp.comp.set. It can be set to "Ambient and Flash" or "Ambient only". But I am unsure what this setting really does.

The Sony user guide says: "Sets whether to apply the exposure compensation value to control both flash light and ambient light, or just ambient light."

So I was expecting that if I set it to "Ambient only" I could tweak the ambient exposure without affecting the flash power. But this isn't the case. Instead, the exposure compensation value has no effect on the actual exposure, just as the OP described. (I am using a Sony F28RM flash.)

However, if I set Exp.comp.set to "Ambient and Flash" exposure can be affected with exposure compensation. I am not sure though if flash power is affected this way.

Could it be that "Ambient only" actually means that exposure compensation simply won't work as soon as a flash is connected? But then what would be the point of this option?

 

[Jacques Cornell]

Note that there is a setting in the camera menu that lets you choose whether EC should include or exclude flash exposure.

I realize this is an old thread, but since you reactivated it I might as well chime in.

The setting you are mentioning is called Exp.comp.set. It can be set to "Ambient and Flash" or "Ambient only". But I am unsure what this setting really does.

When you dial in exposure compensation with the EC dial on the camera, this can shift both flash output and ambient exposure or just the latter. In my event work, I set it to "Ambient only" so I can easily vary the flash-to-ambient ratio. For example, with the camera set to Aperture-priority and Auto ISO, if I want my flash-lit subject normally lit but my ambient-lit background to be darker, I reduce ambient exposure via the EC dial on the camera. If I want to make the flash-lit subject brighter or darker with the flash in TTL mode, I adjust the flash output by dialing in negative exposure compensation on the flash.

The Sony user guide says: "Sets whether to apply the exposure compensation value to control both flash light and ambient light, or just ambient light."

So I was expecting that if I set it to "Ambient only" I could tweak the ambient exposure without affecting the flash power.

Yes.

But this isn't the case.

It is with my Godox/Flashpoint TTL flashes in TTL mode.

Instead, the exposure compensation value has no effect on the actual exposure, just as the OP described. (I am using a Sony F28RM flash.)

This may depend on your camera's exposure settings. For example, if you set aperture, shutter and ISO manually, the EC dial has no effect.

However, if I set Exp.comp.set to "Ambient and Flash" exposure can be affected with exposure compensation. I am not sure though if flash power is affected this way.

Could it be that "Ambient only" actually means that exposure compensation simply won't work as soon as a flash is connected?

No, see above.

But then what would be the point of this option?

See above. I suspect it's a matter of using the appropriate exposure settings on the camera.

 

[Easy Lee]

When you dial in exposure compensation with the EC dial on the camera, this can shift both flash output and ambient exposure or just the latter. In my event work, I set it to "Ambient only" so I can easily vary the flash-to-ambient ratio. For example, with the camera set to Aperture-priority and Auto ISO, if I want my flash-lit subject normally lit but my ambient-lit background to be darker, I reduce ambient exposure via the EC dial on the camera. If I want to make the flash-lit subject brighter or darker with the flash in TTL mode, I adjust the flash output by dialing in negative exposure compensation on the flash.

The way you describe it is exactly how I would have expected it to work. But in reality things seem to be more complex, especially when working with Auto ISO.

I've done two little test series with flash just now. Test 1 kind of confirms what you're saying, but I still can't quite make sense of it.

Test 1: Indoor shot at f/4, ss 1/80 s, Auto ISO. Flash (Sony F28RM) set to Fill-flash / TTL.

1) Without flash: ISO 6400

2) Flash, EC 0: ISO 2500

3) Flash, EC -1, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: ISO 1600, no change in flash power

4) Flash, EC -1, Exp.comp.set =Ambient+Flash: ISO 1250, flash power reduced

5) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: ISO 800, no change in flash power

6) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient+Flash:ISO 640, flash power further reduced

So what we see in 2) is that the camera seems to be down-regulating ambient exposure by around 1 EV to account for the flash. In 3) ambient exposure is further reduced but not by -1 EV in relation to 2). In 4) it gets interesting: Why is ISO further reduced? In my understanding it should be the same as in 3). And the same goes for 5) and 6): Why is ISO lower in 6) than in 5)?

Test 2: Same setting, f/4, ISO 400, aperture priority.

1) Without flash: shutter speed = 1/5 s

2) Flash, EC 0: 1/60 s

3) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: 1/60, no change in flash power

4) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient+Flash: 1/60, flash power clearly reduced

This shows that EC has no effect on ambient exposure in aperture priority mode. Since shutter speed seems to be fixed at 1/60 s the camera can't adjust ambient exposure. The test also shows that flash power is only affected by the EC dial if Exp.comp.set is set to "Ambient+Flash".

Anyway, like others here have suggested too, I think it's best to work in manual mode with flash because that's far less confusing.

 

[Jacques Cornell]

When you dial in exposure compensation with the EC dial on the camera, this can shift both flash output and ambient exposure or just the latter. In my event work, I set it to "Ambient only" so I can easily vary the flash-to-ambient ratio. For example, with the camera set to Aperture-priority and Auto ISO, if I want my flash-lit subject normally lit but my ambient-lit background to be darker, I reduce ambient exposure via the EC dial on the camera. If I want to make the flash-lit subject brighter or darker with the flash in TTL mode, I adjust the flash output by dialing in negative exposure compensation on the flash.

The way you describe it is exactly how I would have expected it to work. But in reality things seem to be more complex, especially when working with Auto ISO.

I've done two little test series with flash just now. Test 1 kind of confirms what you're saying, but I still can't quite make sense of it.

Test 1: Indoor shot at f/4, ss 1/80 s, Auto ISO. Flash (Sony F28RM) set to Fill-flash / TTL.

1) Without flash: ISO 6400

2) Flash, EC 0: ISO 2500

3) Flash, EC -1, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: ISO 1600, no change in flash power

4) Flash, EC -1, Exp.comp.set =Ambient+Flash: ISO 1250, flash power reduced

5) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: ISO 800, no change in flash power

6) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient+Flash:ISO 640, flash power further reduced

So what we see in 2) is that the camera seems to be down-regulating ambient exposure by around 1 EV to account for the flash. In 3) ambient exposure is further reduced but not by -1 EV in relation to 2). In 4) it gets interesting: Why is ISO further reduced? In my understanding it should be the same as in 3). And the same goes for 5) and 6): Why is ISO lower in 6) than in 5)?

Test 2: Same setting, f/4, ISO 400, aperture priority.

1) Without flash: shutter speed = 1/5 s

2) Flash, EC 0: 1/60 s

3) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: 1/60, no change in flash power

4) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient+Flash: 1/60, flash power clearly reduced

This shows that EC has no effect on ambient exposure in aperture priority mode. Since shutter speed seems to be fixed at 1/60 s the camera can't adjust ambient exposure. The test also shows that flash power is only affected by the EC dial if Exp.comp.set is set to "Ambient+Flash".

Anyway, like others here have suggested too, I think it's best to work in manual mode with flash because that's far less confusing.

Sorry, but I'm just having morning coffee and can't profess everything you wrote above, so I'll just add this:

Manual mode will always give you best consistency. I do event work, though, where I'm constantly moving about, often the ambient light is changing, and my focal length and aperture are changing (variable-aperture zoom), so I prefer to work in aperture-priority mode with Min. Shutter and Auto ISO. I dial in EC on the camera to manage ambient and on the flash to manage flash exposure. I let the ISO do whatever it's going to do (with a ceiling of 25,600). Yes, it's not perfectly consistent, and sometimes I get unwanted results, but it works well enough and lets me concentrate on making shots, not constantly tweaking exposure. This is especially helpful when I'm using off- as well as on-camera flashes.

FYI, I use a variety of Godox/Flashpoint TTL flashes (TT350, V860II, V1 and AD200). Your Sony flash may behave differently.

--
Event professional for 20+ years, travel & landscape enthusiast for 30+.
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos

 

[Easy Lee]

Sorry, but I'm just having morning coffee and can't profess everything you wrote above

Fair enough. Maybe someone else has an explanation? The main thing I don't understand is this:

2) Flash, EC 0: ISO 2500

3) Flash, EC -1, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: ISO 1600, no change in flash power

4) Flash, EC -1, Exp.comp.set =Ambient+Flash: ISO 1250, flash power reduced

So in manual auto ISO mode the camera chooses ISO 2500 for this shot. With exposure compensation set to "Ambient+Flash", if I dial in EC -1, the ISO goes down to 1250, as expected. But with exp.comp. set to "Ambient only" the camera chooses an ISO value of 1600. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[tedswarren]

Following this thread, as I'm having issues with the V1 and Sony A1/A9ii and various forms of flash and exposure compensation not working as well.

 

[A-Marc]

edit.

i was wrong, thanks for teaching me new knowledge.

 

[lattesweden]

Test 2: Same setting, f/4, ISO 400, aperture priority.

1) Without flash: shutter speed = 1/5 s

2) Flash, EC 0: 1/60 s

3) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient only: 1/60, no change in flash power

4) Flash, EC -2, Exp.comp.set = Ambient+Flash: 1/60, flash power clearly reduced

This shows that EC has no effect on ambient exposure in aperture priority mode. Since shutter speed seems to be fixed at 1/60 s the camera can't adjust ambient exposure.

If my memory serves me right, 1/60 is the lowest shutter speed with flash unless you set the flash mode to "Slow Sync".

The test also shows that flash power is only affected by the EC dial if Exp.comp.set is set to "Ambient+Flash".

Anyway, like others here have suggested too, I think it's best to work in manual mode with flash because that's far less confusing.