Expanding home network. Questions

[Craig Gillette]

Do you happen to have an Android phone or tablet available? If so, I would suggest using the app ‘WiFi Analyzer’ to walk around your house and get some objective readings on what your situation is. Possibly also whether your envisioned “structure interference” actually is or isn’t an issue.

It seems to vary some (without analyzer), the desktop was not showing the 2.4 GHz available, today it does intermittently, other "available" networks seem to come and go, vary in "bars," too. My phone, has been connected to the 2.4 GHz network pretty much all along, but I do little on-line with it. Walking in with the tablet, the 5GHz shows strongest indicators all the way in, the 2.4 GHz drops bars as I come around the corner into this room.

5GHz band has faster drops in signal strength than 2.4GHz. You may want to check the power levels of the WiFi router. Most WiFi routers allow one to adjust the power levels for the 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi independently.

5 GHz would likely drop strength faster but it's seeming to maintain connections better than the 2.4 GHz.

There may be interferences too. Three common kinds of interferences are: (1) interference from other WiFi APs, (2) interferences from your other electronics, and (3) interference from nearby electric/electronic devices outside your house. 2.5GHz and 5GHz bands are NOT licensed. So others can generate signals in these bands too.

There are regulations on how much powerful WiFi APs can generate. But some people may be ignorant of them and crank up the power.

 

[Craig Gillette]

I'd be interested in reasoning why a second router shouldn't/couldn't be used.

There are several reasons. But the most important one is that it would create a double NAT configuration and certain applications won't be able to go through. NAT stands for network address translation. Your router has a WAN side that uses a public IP address and a LAN side which has a private IP address (e.g., 192.168.1.1). NAT translates the private addresses for the devices in the LAN side to the public network so that data are routable to them. If you have a double NAT configuration (i.e., by adding another router), some applications won't work reliably.

That seems to be the same issues could arise with adding a mesh network.

Mesh networks are different. They do not perform NAT. You won't have such issues with them. The issues you may have with Mesh networks are interferences. If your neighbors blast their WiFi power, it may impact the performance.

I was looking at Eero 6. there seems to be a relationship with Frontier and there was a seriously good Costco deal with 4 routers instead of the more common sets with a router and extenders. An advantage would have been the "routers" have available ethernet connections, the extenders don't.

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support.eero.com

There are several ways that it seems possible. Since I an working off a combined modem/router, adding a router or a mesh network, etc., seem to have similar set up/connection issues. A second network would be fine - if we don't end up paying Frontier more.

Well, you don't really have a combined modem/router. Your router interfaces with the ONT/ONU in your garage. A modem usually interfaces a headend equipment over a longer distance.

From the ONT, coax and traditional phone line goes to the wall behind the existing cable tv and phone boxes on the exterior wall, connecting to the two coax runs and the telephone lines. One coax goes to the bedroom and a set top box. The other goes to the living room where a splitter sends coax to the other set top box, the Arris MEB 1100 MOCA to Ethernet device and coax direct to the Arris NVG468MQ gateway. The MEB 1100 uses it's usb for power and is connected by ethernet cable to the gateway.

Do you have coax cable throughout the house? If you do, MoCA is the best way for extending your network coverage.

I still have only the two cable runs already mentioned.

This is what I use in my house: Amazon.com: Motorola MOCA Adapter for Ethernet Over Coax, 1,000 Mbps Bonded 2.0 MoCA (Model MM1000) : Electronics

I think one can connect up to 15 MoCA adapters to the same coax wiring. I think your router has a built-in MoCA adapter already.

Seems like it. Not sure why Verizon needed/used the WEB 1100 then. Perhaps as they evolved over several devices, this NVG468MQ Gateway came along and they just retained the previous connection approach.

The system, as is, is functional. "We" got the desktop, printer, scanner and "work" area stuff out of the living room/entertaining area.

How are your desktops connected to the network currently?

The wife's is via the 5GHz network. As is mine, now. Before mine was direct connected via ethernet cable. (it was in the corner with the cable/gateway, etc.).

I'm just looking to potential expansion possibilities. Like streaming 4k hdtv in the "office" (cave), added "smart" devices to connect/control. Perhaps also more mutual interference like issues as more in the neighborhood add streaming, etc. So "cheap" is good. I don't really need this expansion at this point, just exploring possibilities. If "interference"impacts the wife's work at home set up, then we'd approach it more seriously.

 

[sludge21017]

If talking on the same circuit breaker, that's fairly straight forward. I'm thinking the locations needed are on different breakers (downstairs vs upstairs, opposite ends of the house, etc.). Haven't explored that far yet. Yet the discussions on the powerline ethernet are don't seem consistent, then there are things like this:

https://weakwifisolutions.com/do-po...-across-different-circuits-legs-phases-loops/

It will work - but don't expect it to be super great.

I installed it with some network cameras - across a home circuit breaker - and it does the job. Just don't expect super high speeds.

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

I have a mesh network using Asus Zenwifi XT8's in a 2-story home. I'll just speak to how it works so you can have some idea how it might fit into some scenario you have there.

I have two nodes, one on each floor. Besides giving wifi6 bandwidth, you are supposed to be able to seamlessly roam between floors, and only need to connect to a single wifi network. That basically works, but I've had some issues with roaming features enabled. Some older 2.4ghz devices have problems and stop working. (I disabled some advanced features to fix the problem. Maybe a firmware fix will allow it to work full-bore.)

For me, it's working well enough. Few devices I have actually roam. Just 2 cell phones.

Wifi6 speeds are in excess of 1Gbps, depending on distance and obstructions. Wifi5 speeds are typically in the 300-600mpbs range.

The Zenwifi nodes have two ways to connect to each other. You can use Ethernet, or a Wifi6 channel, or either, depending on connection quality. I'm using Ethernet myself, which does open up a 3rd wifi channel should I care to make use of it. Normally just the 2.4 and one 5ghz channel is used, with the second 5Ghz channel reserved for backhaul connections.

I used to have two wifi routers internally, both set up as access points. (I have another firewall router.) You can emulate a lot of the same convenience by just setting both up with the same SSD (I think). But the mesh system at least gives a single point of administration, and you can push firmware updates to the remote nodes as well as the main one.

These devices really expect to have one set up as a NAT internet router though. Most instructions are oriented toward that.

 

[Craig Gillette]

I have a mesh network using Asus Zenwifi XT8's in a 2-story home. I'll just speak to how it works so you can have some idea how it might fit into some scenario you have there.

I have two nodes, one on each floor. Besides giving wifi6 bandwidth, you are supposed to be able to seamlessly roam between floors, and only need to connect to a single wifi network. That basically works, but I've had some issues with roaming features enabled. Some older 2.4ghz devices have problems and stop working. (I disabled some advanced features to fix the problem. Maybe a firmware fix will allow it to work full-bore.)

My current network is two networks, 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. The phones and tablets both have been connected to both in the past so they can auto-reconnect.

For me, it's working well enough. Few devices I have actually roam. Just 2 cell phones.

I wouldn't expect much roaming, either. A couple of phones and tablets. Everything else will likely pretty much stay in one place.

Wifi6 speeds are in excess of 1Gbps, depending on distance and obstructions. Wifi5 speeds are typically in the 300-600mpbs range.

The Zenwifi nodes have two ways to connect to each other. You can use Ethernet, or a Wifi6 channel, or either, depending on connection quality. I'm using Ethernet myself, which does open up a 3rd wifi channel should I care to make use of it. Normally just the 2.4 and one 5ghz channel is used, with the second 5Ghz channel reserved for backhaul connections.

Yeah, haven't made any sort of decision on mesh system yet. I haven't used up all the outlets in my "office" room but my wife also does her hobbies in her room so her outlets are pretty much accounted for. I have a little flexibility in running along a baseboard for a ways to help a little with node placement.

I used to have two wifi routers internally, both set up as access points. (I have another firewall router.) You can emulate a lot of the same convenience by just setting both up with the same SSD (I think). But the mesh system at least gives a single point of administration, and you can push firmware updates to the remote nodes as well as the main one.

These devices really expect to have one set up as a NAT internet router though. Most instructions are oriented toward that.

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

If it helps any, you can get flat Ethernet cable that is easier to hide in some cases.

And it's not much of a problem to plug in a small switch in an office to expand the number of LAN connections available there.

 

[Craig Gillette]

This is complex and simple. There are several possible "wireless" approaches, just there isn't a reasonable "hardwire" possibility to bridge the full gap. Essentially going from the 1st floor northeast corner to the 2nd floor southwest corner.

A node, over the gateway and the other outside the office door would be line of sight, likely be all that was needed. There's a valance and drapes on one end and a short run along a baseboard on the other. So mesh might be simplest, maybe not least expensive. But it also would expand for "smart" home gadgets and another node, if "needed," would probably handle the garage, too.

 

[Craig Gillette]

My daughter's boyfriend has a couple of eero 6 units, a router and an extender that he was using with/for his parents, so will have that to try, probably after the holidays.

I replaced my network adapter today with a new Asus PCE-AX58BT. I was going to need a new adapter to take advantage of faster new connections, too. I'm getting better signal strength indicators on on the various networks it identifies and I can connect on both 2.4 and 5 GHz on mine. Perhaps better adapter and better antenna placement, too.