EV number for monitor and print

[Oldboy 1948]

With modern digital cameras we should like to have a 44" printer to show it all, right?

But as most of us don't live in a palace, don't like the cost and don't like weight (above 100 kg) we have to find alternatives.

We have the monitor, the TV or prints we can have in our home.

Looking at a picture is about size, distance and light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value

Now you know about EV (my monitor is around EV 7)

How is it at your place?

 

[digidog]

With modern digital cameras we should like to have a 44" printer to show it all, right?

But as most of us don't live in a palace, don't like the cost and don't like weight (above 100 kg) we have to find alternatives.

We have the monitor, the TV or prints we can have in our home.

Looking at a picture is about size, distance and light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value

Now you know about EV (my monitor is around EV 7)

You believe your display exposes something? Exposure is a process that takes place at capture of an image. It has nothing to do with ISO as well; shutter/aperture only.

Are you talking about dynamic range or the contrast ratio of a display (which some can alter through calibrating)?

I see nothing the URL speaking of displays and I think for good reason. ;-)

 

[Tom Axford]

I have no idea what you are talking about!

 

[digidog]

I have no idea what you are talking about!

Ah, thanks; I thought maybe it was me.... :-D

 

[Oldboy 1948]

With modern digital cameras we should like to have a 44" printer to show it all, right?

But as most of us don't live in a palace, don't like the cost and don't like weight (above 100 kg) we have to find alternatives.

We have the monitor, the TV or prints we can have in our home.

Looking at a picture is about size, distance and light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value

Now you know about EV (my monitor is around EV 7)

You believe your display exposes something? Exposure is a process that takes place at capture of an image. It has nothing to do with ISO as well; shutter/aperture only.

Yes at ISO 100 I will get right exposure

 

[digidog]

With modern digital cameras we should like to have a 44" printer to show it all, right?

But as most of us don't live in a palace, don't like the cost and don't like weight (above 100 kg) we have to find alternatives.

We have the monitor, the TV or prints we can have in our home.

Looking at a picture is about size, distance and light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value

Now you know about EV (my monitor is around EV 7)

You believe your display exposes something? Exposure is a process that takes place at capture of an image. It has nothing to do with ISO as well; shutter/aperture only.

Yes at ISO 100 I will get right exposure

That statement is equally confusing.

ISO has nothing to do with exposure IF you understand what exposure is.

ISO takes place AFTER exposure. You may base that exposure on an ISO setting but the facts remain: ISO is amplification of captured data that takes place after the capture/exposure,.

Lastly, questions to you about EV having anything to do with a display remain unanswered. So again, two of us are asking, based on your first post: what on earth are you talking about?

Now you know about EV (my monitor is around EV 7)

How so? You came up with that value how?

 

[Oldboy 1948]

I have no idea what you are talking about!

OK it was not clear. If you look at the wikipedia link and put your camera on ISO 100 you can test your monitor and some prints at your place.

 

[digidog]

I have no idea what you are talking about!

OK it was not clear.

Indeed.

If you look at the wikipedia link and put your camera on ISO 100 you can test your monitor and some prints at your place.

Test what?

FWIW, I have a Spectrophotometer, I can actually measure the output (from a display or a print) and provide density, Dmax, contrast ratio/dynamic range.

IS THIS what you're attempting to provide?

Do examine what EV is; I can't see how a display or print has anything to do with that attribute. The web site you've provided seems rather clear to me:

exposure value (EV) is a number that represents a combination of a camera's shutter speed and f-number

Tell me how a print or display has a combination of shutter speed and F-stop before we go any farther if we do.

 

[fishy wishy]

There is an Ev to luminance in cd/m2 conversion table there. Monitors seem to be often quoted around 300cd/m2 which would make the Ev 11+.

 

[Oldboy 1948]

Yes at ISO 100 I will get right exposure

That statement is equally confusing.

ISO has nothing to do with exposure IF you understand what exposure is.

ISO takes place AFTER exposure. You may base that exposure on an ISO setting but the facts remain: ISO is amplification of captured data that takes place after the capture/exposure,.

Lastly, questions to you about EV having anything to do with a display remain unanswered. So again, two of us are asking, based on your first post: what on earth are you talking about?

Now you know about EV (my monitor is around EV 7)

How so? You came up with that value how?

 

[Charles2]

"Exposure"/"exposure value" has more than one meaning in photography. One is that "exposure is a process that takes place at capture of an image." But that is not the only meaning in widespread use. A second meaning is typical in post processing. For example, Raw Therapee allows two different adjustments, both obviously done after image capture -- exposure and "lightness" (also called brightness).



And charts like this one are common, relating the contrast ratio that a display is capable of to exposure value.

• That said, you seem to want to poll what we do, but just what it is about what we do is not clear, per Tom A.

 

[digidog]

There is an Ev to luminance in cd/m2 conversion table there. Monitors seem to be often quoted around 300cd/m2 which would make the Ev 11+.

Ah no, they are often not (nor should be).

Even if so, so what? How does having an EV number (or one based on cd/m^2 PROPERLY measured) aid anyone. And what about prints? You maybe think the amount of light striking them differs and plays a role?

 

[digidog]

Yes at ISO 100 I will get right exposure

That statement is equally confusing.

ISO has nothing to do with exposure IF you understand what exposure is.

ISO takes place AFTER exposure. You may base that exposure on an ISO setting but the facts remain: ISO is amplification of captured data that takes place after the capture/exposure,.

Lastly, questions to you about EV having anything to do with a display remain unanswered. So again, two of us are asking, based on your first post: what on earth are you talking about?

Now you know about EV (my monitor is around EV 7)

How so? You came up with that value how?

 

[digidog]

"Exposure"/"exposure value" has more than one meaning in photography.

Only to those that don't know what exposure is. Thanks for providing that example data point again. Putting quotes around Exposure doesn't change what it really is.

One is that "exposure is a process that takes place at capture of an image."

The only actual one.

After, as you show below is NOT exposure and does NOT compensate for exposure! It affects brightness. Of existing pixels that were exposed long before this process.

But that is not the only meaning in widespread use.

There are lots of wrong meanings, you've got that covered here in just the last couple days:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60469579

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60476404

A second meaning is typical in post processing.

Another wrong meaning. Calling it exposure doesn't make it so.

There's blend mode in Photoshop called "Luminosity" which has absolutely nothing to do with that term.* Calling it that in a software product doesn't change the physics that you'll ignore below.

For example, Raw Therapee allows two different adjustments, both obviously done after image capture -- exposure and "lightness" (also called brightness).

IT IS BRIGHTNESS, and NOT Exposure.

And charts like this one are common, relating the contrast ratio that a display is capable of to exposure value.

• That said, you seem to want to poll what we do, but just what it is about what we do is not clear, per Tom A.

The reason there's so much ignorance on the subject of exposure, color management and print shops, is that those who have it are so eager to regularly share it! - The Digital Dog

*Facts you will most certainly ignore so it's for the benefit of those reading your further misinformation:

Brightness is a perceptual phenomena. Luminance (Luminosity) is a measure of the total radiant energy from a body. It has nothing to do with what a human perceives but rather describes the total radiant energy, such as watts/second of a source (the surface of a radiating object like a display). In Photoshop, the layer mode called luminosity is not what's occurring (I was told its something like the "Luma" which is an old TV RGB transform). If the luminance of a viewed light source is increased 10 times, viewers do not judge that the brightness has increased 10 times. Lightness is a perceptually scaled component of color, the axis seen in Lab (Lstar) from light to dark. It IS the L in HSL.

--
Andrew Rodney
Author: Color Management for Photographers
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net

 

[Oldboy 1948]

There is an Ev to luminance in cd/m2 conversion table there. Monitors seem to be often quoted around 300cd/m2 which would make the Ev 11+.

You make it very complex!

As this is a photographic forum most people can test the EV with their digicam on monitor, prints on the wall, daylight if they have it now.

For monitors normal user distance should be most interesting.

The point is people discuss image quality all the time but how much can they see?

EV 0 is not like EV 10 if you are looking at a printed poster!

 

[Gerry Winterbourne]

I have no idea what you are talking about!

OK it was not clear. If you look at the wikipedia link and put your camera on ISO 100 you can test your monitor and some prints at your place.

If I take a photograph the exposure I need to make it look "eight" compared to the scene I'm photographing is a combination of the f-stop and shutter speed I set. No matter what ISO I set in the camera I can control the output (image) brightness by altering one or both of those settings.

As I sit here with my camera at ISO100 my camera suggests the exposure for my screen at f/4 is 1/30s. If I change aperture to f/2 shutter speed goes to 1/125s (effectively 2 stops faster for the aperture being 2 stops faster).

If I go back to f/4 and change ISO to 400 I get 1/125s again - 2 stops of ISO, 2 stops of shutter speed compared to my first settings.

All of that is by looking at the screen as I type this message - nearly all white with some print. The I open a new tab and open a new web page with advertising that's rather darker, and at f/4 ISO400 shutter speed slows to 1/90s.

So - please explain to me how this "test [of] your monitor" monitor works.

 

[digidog]

"Exposure"/"exposure value" has more than one meaning in photography.

An example of an image from someone who probably shouldn't be discussing exposure or it's 'other' meanings made up:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60419935

OR color management!

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60217235
Many times info on that site was debunked, many times it was demonstrated to you, personally, that the site is full of errors, and you still try to mislead people to that site. Deliberate malpractice.

Or recommendations on outside labs:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59028453

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59276325

Seriously, again?

In other threads, after constantly shilling for AmericanFrame and blaming other posters for their difficulties with that company, you've claimed that you're not affiliated with them in any way. Now, once more, here you are acting as if you're their paid publicist. Tell us again how you're supposedly not affiliated with them.

What is the agenda for regularly posting misinformation that has been regularly dismissed and corrected with facts, by experts and professionals in the field of color and imaging?

 

[Oldboy 1948]

I have no idea what you are talking about!

OK it was not clear. If you look at the wikipedia link and put your camera on ISO 100 you can test your monitor and some prints at your place.

If I take a photograph the exposure I need to make it look "eight" compared to the scene I'm photographing is a combination of the f-stop and shutter speed I set. No matter what ISO I set in the camera I can control the output (image) brightness by altering one or both of those settings.

As I sit here with my camera at ISO100 my camera suggests the exposure for my screen at f/4 is 1/30s. If I change aperture to f/2 shutter speed goes to 1/125s (effectively 2 stops faster for the aperture being 2 stops faster).

If I go back to f/4 and change ISO to 400 I get 1/125s again - 2 stops of ISO, 2 stops of shutter speed compared to my first settings.

All of that is by looking at the screen as I type this message - nearly all white with some print. The I open a new tab and open a new web page with advertising that's rather darker, and at f/4 ISO400 shutter speed slows to 1/90s.

So - please explain to me how this "test [of] your monitor" monitor works.

--
---
Gerry
___________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
[email protected]

f/4 and 1/30s results in EV=9 at ISO 100.

The point is to test a typical image review use of the monitor. Dark text on white background will most likely give higher EV

 

[Charles2]

"Exposure"/"exposure value" has more than one meaning in photography.

An example of an image from someone who probably shouldn't be discussing exposure or it's 'other' meanings made up:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60419935

Folks, this digicur guy has linked to a photo I did not take, did not praise, and simply commented on. But he works himself into a frenzy and goes into flame war mode and loses all sight of reality. He's been at it for fifteen years.

Here, he goes ballistic because the word exposure does indeed have more than one meaning in photography.

 

[Gerry Winterbourne]

I have no idea what you are talking about!

OK it was not clear. If you look at the wikipedia link and put your camera on ISO 100 you can test your monitor and some prints at your place.

If I take a photograph the exposure I need to make it look "eight" compared to the scene I'm photographing is a combination of the f-stop and shutter speed I set. No matter what ISO I set in the camera I can control the output (image) brightness by altering one or both of those settings.

As I sit here with my camera at ISO100 my camera suggests the exposure for my screen at f/4 is 1/30s. If I change aperture to f/2 shutter speed goes to 1/125s (effectively 2 stops faster for the aperture being 2 stops faster).

If I go back to f/4 and change ISO to 400 I get 1/125s again - 2 stops of ISO, 2 stops of shutter speed compared to my first settings.

All of that is by looking at the screen as I type this message - nearly all white with some print. The I open a new tab and open a new web page with advertising that's rather darker, and at f/4 ISO400 shutter speed slows to 1/90s.

So - please explain to me how this "test [of] your monitor" monitor works.

f/4 and 1/30s results in EV=9 at ISO 100.

The point is to test a typical image review use of the monitor. Dark text on white background will most likely give higher EV.

OK. So I view a fairly bright picture at ISO100 and f/4 and shutter speed goes to 1/8s; I view a fairly dark picture at ISO100 and f/4 and shutter speed goes 1/6s. It's still the same monitor - what am I testing?