Entry level OM System camera - what should it be?

[oneofone25]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.




I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

 

[iamphil]

PDAF with good video and sealing is mandatory otherwise it will be an irrelevant product.

 

[gary0319]

Since every camera to no carry the OM System badge: OM1, OM-5, OM-3, and TG7 have weather sealing, I would bet that any entry level camera (if there ever is one) would be weather sealed.

 

[Blastfemur]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

There is no such thing as no "video" anymore.

The entire photography industry is now a subset of the video industry.

All sensors and readouts and processors are, in fact, video capture devices.

Also, the market relies on video. DPR did a video on this a few years ago explaining why video is an absolute necessity for any camera to work both technically and in the market.

 

[lunic]

(A) The OM-5Ⅱ is the new baseline.

OMDS need to acknowledge the failure in stratification of the OM series. The OM-5 Ⅱ already lacks FL-LM3 compatibility and optional grip support, and has seen reductions in certain functions like S-OVF. It also continues to heavily rely on outdated parts like the image sensor that going to be a teenage soon. Despite having a 1/8000s mechanical shutter and weather sealing, the electronics inside makes it only reasonably be classified as an entry-level model. OMDS must fully accept this reality, position the OM-5 line as the lowest tier within the OM series, and scrap any repackage plans for E-M10 Ⅳ. (Perhaps it wouldn’t be such a bad idea to repackage the planners who support that repackage plan and ship them out instead.)

(B) We need another 'PEN'

They also need to revive the PEN series as a “V-log”-hyped entry-level device. It should not be another minimal snapshooting camera like the E-P7. OM should benchmark models such as the X-M5 and R50V to develop an entry-level camera without an EVF but equipped with practical video features like an external mic input and headphone output. Since the E-P7 already has 5-axis IBIS, appropriate mechanical shutter, built-in flash, hot shoe, and nice dials in a lightweight body, adding a mic jack and updating the menu system (or, bluntly, 'copy and paste from OM-5 Ⅱ') would be enough to create a more balanced, V-log-hyped camera that also excels at snapshots—at the very least, more so than the G100D.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

The marketing of such a "low MP" cameras is now getting more difficult. Everyone seems sold on more MP even if they never use that capability to its fullest extent.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

No way, mirrorless cameras are basically video cameras anyway, how else do you get live view? So it is a markets need and a given technically that they all have video capability now.

metal body or plastic?

Doesn't matter, whichever is cheaper to make.

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

Again, easiest to make is the best one.

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Bring back smallness to M4/3!

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

For maybe about 40% of users then it must be tilt screen as it seems many (like me) strenuously avoid any camera with those awful flip out sideways screens just to get a tilt screen. Why do you think that the Pen-F never quite met sales expectations? That darn screen of course.

 

[JakeJY]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

I think rangefinder style as the entry is going to be a dying breed in the US and OMDS will be no exception. It's telling Panasonic abandoned their GF lineup here (last one was GX850) and went with the G100 (rangefinder style) as the entry body here. So I think most likely the entry would be an E-M10 variant. It will most definitely have video because that is expected functionality in the modern age (even that weird Fuji X-Half camera that was supposed to emulate a film camera has video).

 

[Regor250]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

There is no such thing as no "video" anymore.

The entire photography industry is now a subset of the video industry.

All sensors and readouts and processors are, in fact, video capture devices.

Also, the market relies on video. DPR did a video on this a few years ago explaining why video is an absolute necessity for any camera to work both technically and in the market.

Unfortunately.

 

[Kasuobes]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

Entry-model cameras suffer from its target audience of beginners, whom (usually) lack the experience to discern between features they need from the overwhelming marketing promoting the latest and greatest. More experienced users will realise 20MP is more than sufficient for most use cases unless they need heavy cropping, but for beginners they have all been indoctrinated to believe “more MP is better” from years of marketing (eg. 200MP cellphones ermahgurd!). The main challenge of selling entry-level bodies IMO is therefore to convince users they don’t need the kitchen sink (nor can they) at a sensible price-point.

Side note: I see tons of Chinese tourists in Hong Kong touting brand new FF bodies like the A7R (61MP ermahgurd!) around, with the PASM dial set to auto…

My ideal entry-model body would have the following features:

• 20MP sensor - stacked or non-stacked, whichever is logistically cheaper to share production lines with higher-end models.
• PDAF - CDAF is fine for stills, but PDAF offer miles better performance with C-AF. If the camera can’t focus and track as well as cellphones, beginner users will likely prefer their phones over the proper camera.
• IBIS optional - being able to use lower shutter speeds is great, but most of the time when beginners ask why their photos are blurry it’s because their shutter speeds weren’t fast enough.
• Flippable screen - doesn’t quite matter whether it’s tilt or fully articulated, as long as it can be flipped forward to placate the selfie crowd. But for heaven’s sake don’t let it flip downwards like the E-P7, flipping upwards like the GX880 is ideal.
• EVF optional - having an EVF will help better distinguish the camera over cellphones, but at the same time I also observed most beginners almost never use the EVF.
• 2 control dials - I’d kill to have a third dial for EC or ISO in addition to the usual shutter speed and aperture dials, but I admit 2 dials is enough for me most of the time.
• Weather-sealing - given the heavy marketing focus from Olympus/OMS to sell outdoors adventuring, having all their bodies rated to at least IP53 would be an advantage over other brands.
• Video capabilities - I’m not at all well-versed in what videographers need or want, but the Pany bodies seemed well-received enough so I’ll take whatever they have. More or less to placate the vlogging crowd.
• Small size and weight - I'll be generous and say 350g max with the battery inserted. Portability is key, users who see the camera as too big and heavy will be less likely to bring them out.
• Modest price-point - ~800USD is probably competitive enough, matching the Fuji X-M5.
• Bundled small flash - the FL-LM3 is a real gem and certainly better than pop-up flashes.

Funny enough, I’m essentially describing a G100D with PDAF, weather-sealing, optional IBIS, lobbing off the EVF hump and pop-up flash.

 

[Bobapingu]

Entry level to photography is the phone. Beyond that, it's a matter of what level of camera, the photographer considers sufficient. In OM terms, is it a 10, 5, 3 or 1? They are all so good that there is not necessarily a progression. Regardless, I accept that the cheapest will forever and a day we referred to as "entry level".

"

 

[bullsit]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

I think rangefinder style as the entry is going to be a dying breed in the US and OMDS will be no exception. It's telling Panasonic abandoned their GF lineup here (last one was GX850) and went with the G100 (rangefinder style) as the entry body here. So I think most likely the entry would be an E-M10 variant. It will most definitely have video because that is expected functionality in the modern age (even that weird Fuji X-Half camera that was supposed to emulate a film camera has video).

gen Z likes things that look old ("classic"). there's a reason why fuji cameras are a hit to the younger generation. a PEN style camera is the only one lacking in the current line up.

 

[Kasuobes]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

I think rangefinder style as the entry is going to be a dying breed in the US and OMDS will be no exception. It's telling Panasonic abandoned their GF lineup here (last one was GX850) and went with the G100 (rangefinder style) as the entry body here. So I think most likely the entry would be an E-M10 variant. It will most definitely have video because that is expected functionality in the modern age (even that weird Fuji X-Half camera that was supposed to emulate a film camera has video).

gen Z likes things that look old ("classic"). there's a reason why fuji cameras are a hit to the younger generation. a PEN style camera is the only one lacking in the current line up.

Vintage or retro looks is only one part of the equation. I can usually divide people on the streets carrying cameras into several categories:

1. Trend chasers - going after latest marketing or social media hype, whatever it may be. Sometimes they get cute dolls stuck on their hotshoe covers.
2. Fashion conscious - the camera is the new handbag or otherwise a show of status, "I have an expensive camera (even if I leave it on full auto)".
3. Beginner photographers - the camera is actually used to take pictures, but rookie errors are apparent. Telltale signs include using full auto, pop-up flashes (especially if they pop up right before the shot is taken), using flash through a window, etc...
4. Amateur or professional photographers - the user generally know what they are doing regardless of their gear. Using non-kit lenses can be a good indicator, but not a conclusive one as there are lots of very good kit lenses.

My categories aren't mutually exclusive of course, but I haven't noticed any overwhelming trend towards vintage or retro looking bodies.

 

[angelo7859]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system.

I think we should see something like the EP-7 become more common in the U.S. as the entry level camera for OM System. No viewfinder but you can add one with hotshoe. Or something like the old Trip? And make them available in 4-5 different colors?

20Mp non-stacked sensor.

Should it forego video and only be for photography?

metal body or plastic?

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

Entry-model cameras suffer from its target audience of beginners, whom (usually) lack the experience to discern between features they need from the overwhelming marketing promoting the latest and greatest. More experienced users will realise 20MP is more than sufficient for most use cases unless they need heavy cropping, but for beginners they have all been indoctrinated to believe “more MP is better” from years of marketing (eg. 200MP cellphones ermahgurd!). The main challenge of selling entry-level bodies IMO is therefore to convince users they don’t need the kitchen sink (nor can they) at a sensible price-point.

Side note: I see tons of Chinese tourists in Hong Kong touting brand new FF bodies like the A7R (61MP ermahgurd!) around, with the PASM dial set to auto…

My ideal entry-model body would have the following features:

• 20MP sensor - stacked or non-stacked, whichever is logistically cheaper to share production lines with higher-end models.
• PDAF - CDAF is fine for stills, but PDAF offer miles better performance with C-AF. If the camera can’t focus and track as well as cellphones, beginner users will likely prefer their phones over the proper camera.
• IBIS optional - being able to use lower shutter speeds is great, but most of the time when beginners ask why their photos are blurry it’s because their shutter speeds weren’t fast enough.
• Flippable screen - doesn’t quite matter whether it’s tilt or fully articulated, as long as it can be flipped forward to placate the selfie crowd. But for heaven’s sake don’t let it flip downwards like the E-P7, flipping upwards like the GX880 is ideal.
• EVF optional - having an EVF will help better distinguish the camera over cellphones, but at the same time I also observed most beginners almost never use the EVF.
• 2 control dials - I’d kill to have a third dial for EC or ISO in addition to the usual shutter speed and aperture dials, but I admit 2 dials is enough for me most of the time.
• Weather-sealing - given the heavy marketing focus from Olympus/OMS to sell outdoors adventuring, having all their bodies rated to at least IP53 would be an advantage over other brands.
• Video capabilities - I’m not at all well-versed in what videographers need or want, but the Pany bodies seemed well-received enough so I’ll take whatever they have. More or less to placate the vlogging crowd.
• Small size and weight - I'll be generous and say 350g max with the battery inserted. Portability is key, users who see the camera as too big and heavy will be less likely to bring them out.
• Modest price-point - ~800USD is probably competitive enough, matching the Fuji X-M5.
• Bundled small flash - the FL-LM3 is a real gem and certainly better than pop-up flashes.

Funny enough, I’m essentially describing a G100D with PDAF, weather-sealing, optional IBIS, lobbing off the EVF hump and pop-up flash.

The issue is, can OM or Panasonic make such a camera at that pricepoint and be profitable? As still they doesn't try, the answer may be, it is not possible.

 

[John Bean (UK)]

metal body or plastic?

Doesn't matter, whichever is cheaper to make.

one color ?? All black or silver and black? sand color?

Again, easiest to make is the best one.

If it's plastic make the underlying plastic colour similar to the paint finish - black for black, grey for silver. I don't care about "sand" as I'd never buy one in that colour anyway.

maybe redo the small EZ lenses we all used and make them a tad higher quality?

Bring back smallness to M4/3!

Without a doubt.

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

For maybe about 40% of users then it must be tilt screen as it seems many (like me) strenuously avoid any camera with those awful flip out sideways screens just to get a tilt screen. Why do you think that the Pen-F never quite met sales expectations? That darn screen of course.

Couldn't agree more. If the body is stills-oriented a flippy screen is not a good choice for a large chunk of potential customers. At least one model should have a simple tilt LCD and EVF, much like the original E-M5.

 

[cba_melbourne]

Let’s gather ideas for what it should be - let’s not have this be a place to complain about the direction of OM System or how micro 4/3 is a failing system

.............

Come on…no complaining. - let’s just brainstorm and have fun with it.

Entry-level means the cheapest true system camera each manufacturer can make. And this also means that entry-level prices need to be competitive between manufacturers.

Entry-level system cameras are made to attract new customers to (obviously) a system, with the aim to lock them into that system for a long time.

To achieve that, entry level cameras must be aggressively subsidized. They are by nature loss makers. They must be seen as a marketing investment in future sales of profitable lenses, and profitable mid and high tier cameras.

At this point in time, I think OM cannot (or not yet) afford to make an entry level camera. They first need to make some profits and build up a war chest. Or find someone that advances them the necessary money. You cannot make profits today, by selling an entry level camera today. The profits only come many months or even years later after the sale. In the meantime a company must be able to survive, whilst selling loss making cameras with kit lenses.

 

[Sam Bennett]

Since every camera to no carry the OM System badge: OM1, OM-5, OM-3, and TG7 have weather sealing, I would bet that any entry level camera (if there ever is one) would be weather sealed.

Yeah, the easy answer is the next camera will be the OM-10 - mostly the same as the E-M10 but with weather sealing, USB-C, etc. Maybe it’ll come in a fun outdoorsy color? Olive?

The harder thing for me to predict is what will happen with the E-P7. I’d love to see a weather sealed variant, but if OM System is banking on providing a different “experience” vs a smartphone, having a viewfinder is core to that IMO. So, I almost think a PEN-F II would be more likely. Call it the OM-F?

I think it’s also pretty likely we’ll see Mark II variants of the 12/2 and 45/1.8. The streamlined styling of the 17/1.8 and 25/1.8 II, metal build (an upgrade for the 45), weather sealing, etc.

 

[Jaime100]

I would shift the focus of the EP7 and create an update to the Pen F. But I wouldn't make it much different than the OM5ii. Essentially have two versions--one styled under the rangefinder (Pen F) and the second old OM1 (OMii). This way the Pen Fer's can have their way but R&D wouldn't be so great as to put a burden upon OM Systems financially.

Beyond that, OM should capitalize on the small camera market. Just look at the success of the current EP7 in the Japanese market. The younger generation are going after vintage point and shoots, so OM should create one and maintain a price point of under $500. These cameras should be styled after the Olympus Stylus cameras (essentially the TG series but without the ruggedness). Again, the R&D is already here.

Just make it fit the non ruggedness needs of the younger generation and repackage the current EP7 to fit. An old 'clamshell' like Stylus. Have multiple vivid colors.

Then OM Systems would have a great line-up consisting of four levels and six cameras:

First Level...OM1 series
Second Level...OM3
Third Level....OM5ii and Pen Iii (same camera, different styles)

Fourth Levels...OM TG rugged and OM Stylus (non rugged)

 

[Art_P]

Small body, say OM-10, or EP style.

Easily accessible art filters, but lower specs (frame rate, shutter speed, buffer, etc.)

Electronic shutter only to reduce cost.

Fun colors could be a plus.

Use the OM-5 battery and sensor.

 

[plantdoc]

With a 20% Trump Tax on Vietnam, I think new lower priced, more featured, products will be rare.

Greg

 

[Art_P]

I'd consider an Olympus 5 or 10 series, either low miles, reconditioned or new old stock as a good introduction to the system.