EM1 Flash Sync Question

[Albert Valentino]

My EM1 is set to sync flash at 1/320 sec (Menu F X-sync and Slow Sync). This works with the included flash, FL-LM2, but not when I mount my Godox TT350o. When the speedlight is mounted I can only do 1/250 sec. I would like to go faster, mostly to shoot macro and things like flowers to controlthe background light relative to the subject.

Anyway, is my 1/250 sec limitation due to the type of flash, or am I doing something wrong?

 

[daddyo]

Unfortunately, the only TTL flash that will synch @ 1/320 Sec on the E-M1 is the clip on flash FL-LM2. All other TTL flashes (to my knowledge) drop the synch speed to 1/250 sec.

A way around this is to use a totally manual, non-TTL flash. If you shoot in Manual Exposure Mode, you can set the shutter speed and aperture wherever you wish. Set the shutter speed at 1/320 Sec and adjust aperture as need for the flash output and ambient light.

If there is enough ambient light, you can actually shoot faster than 1/320 Sec and still get good results.

This was shot at 1/800 Sec with excellent results, with an off camera flash as my key light.

--
God Bless,
Greg
www.imagismphotos.com
www.mccroskery.zenfolio.com
www.pbase.com/daddyo

 

[Paulmorgan]

My EM1 is set to sync flash at 1/320 sec (Menu F X-sync and Slow Sync). This works with the included flash, FL-LM2, but not when I mount my Godox TT350o. When the speedlight is mounted I can only do 1/250 sec. I would like to go faster, mostly to shoot macro and things like flowers to controlthe background light relative to the subject.

Anyway, is my 1/250 sec limitation due to the type of flash, or am I doing something wrong?

 

[kli]

My EM1 is set to sync flash at 1/320 sec (Menu F X-sync and Slow Sync). This works with the included flash, FL-LM2, but not when I mount my Godox TT350o. When the speedlight is mounted I can only do 1/250 sec. I would like to go faster, mostly to shoot macro and things like flowers to controlthe background light relative to the subject.

Anyway, is my 1/250 sec limitation due to the type of flash, or am I doing something wrong?

The limitation is due to the focal plane shutter in your camera. It's a camera body limit. A focal plane shutter uses two curtains to control shutter speed. The shutter speed you set determines the length of the gap between the two curtains. At 1/250s (or 1/320s, depending on the flash/camera communication), that gap is just big enough to uncover the entire sensor during the flash burst. But any faster than that, and the gap will be smaller than your sensor, and part of the sensor will be covered by one or both curtains, and you'll get black/dark bands at the top and/or bottom of the frame because when the flash went off, the whole sensor wasn't exposed to the light.

Most focal plane digital cameras, however, can use flash with faster shutter speeds by using an HSS (high-speed sync) flash mode; this is also called FP (focal plane) flash. This pulses the flash continuously during the entire duration of the exposure, so the flash basically acts more like a continuous light source. But. The repeated pulsing required to do this uses a lot more power than a single (non-HSS) flash burst. With macro subject distances, this hopefully won't be an issue, but for portrait shooting, you might be fighting to get enough light from the flash [see Neil van Nierkerk's HSS tutorial].

The EM1 can do HSS. You just have to set it on the flash. On the TT350-O, press the SYNC button until you see an H with a lightning bolt icon. That means HSS is turned on. With an FL600R or FL360L, you'd be using either FP TTL Auto or FP Manual mode to get HSS.

With HSS enabled, I'm able to sync all the way up to 1/8000s with my GX7 without any banding. However. The power settings on the TT350-O, while in HSS, are limited to full to 1/16 power. You can't go any lower.

 

[Albert Valentino]

Unfortunately, the only TTL flash that will synch @ 1/320 Sec on the E-M1 is the clip on flash FL-LM2. All other TTL flashes (to my knowledge) drop the synch speed to 1/250 sec.

A way around this is to use a totally manual, non-TTL flash. If you shoot in Manual Exposure Mode, you can set the shutter speed and aperture wherever you wish. Set the shutter speed at 1/320 Sec and adjust aperture as need for the flash output and ambient light.

i have tried M mode, flash and camera, but i am still limited to 1/250 sec. So I assume you meant a flash that ONLY has manual mode, not both M and TTL

If there is enough ambient light, you can actually shoot faster than 1/320 Sec and still get good results.

This was shot at 1/800 Sec with excellent results, with an off camera flash as my key light.

--
God Bless,
Greg
www.imagismphotos.com
www.mccroskery.zenfolio.com
www.pbase.com/daddyo

--
If you don't get older and wiser, than you just get older.

 

[Albert Valentino]

My EM1 is set to sync flash at 1/320 sec (Menu F X-sync and Slow Sync). This works with the included flash, FL-LM2, but not when I mount my Godox TT350o. When the speedlight is mounted I can only do 1/250 sec. I would like to go faster, mostly to shoot macro and things like flowers to controlthe background light relative to the subject.

Anyway, is my 1/250 sec limitation due to the type of flash, or am I doing something wrong?

The limitation is due to the focal plane shutter in your camera. It's a camera body limit. A focal plane shutter uses two curtains to control shutter speed. The shutter speed you set determines the length of the gap between the two curtains. At 1/250s (or 1/320s, depending on the flash/camera communication), that gap is just big enough to uncover the entire sensor during the flash burst. But any faster than that, and the gap will be smaller than your sensor, and part of the sensor will be covered by one or both curtains, and you'll get black/dark bands at the top and/or bottom of the frame because when the flash went off, the whole sensor wasn't exposed to the light.

Most focal plane digital cameras, however, can use flash with faster shutter speeds by using an HSS (high-speed sync) flash mode; this is also called FP (focal plane) flash. This pulses the flash continuously during the entire duration of the exposure, so the flash basically acts more like a continuous light source. But. The repeated pulsing required to do this uses a lot more power than a single (non-HSS) flash burst. With macro subject distances, this hopefully won't be an issue, but for portrait shooting, you might be fighting to get enough light from the flash [see Neil van Nierkerk's HSS tutorial].

The EM1 can do HSS. You just have to set it on the flash. On the TT350-O, press the SYNC button until you see an H with a lightning bolt icon. That means HSS is turned on. With an FL600R or FL360L, you'd be using either FP TTL Auto or FP Manual mode to get HSS.

With HSS enabled, I'm able to sync all the way up to 1/8000s with my GX7 without any banding. However. The power settings on the TT350-O, while in HSS, are limited to full to 1/16 power. You can't go any lower.

Thanks. Very helpful

 

[Guy Parsons]

HSS.

Yes, outdoors you need HSS, so not sure how you set that up with the Godox but I know with my Oly FL-36R I set that to HSS on the flash by using its Mode button or as they show it on the flash LCD as "FP TTL Auto" and I can use any shutter speed on my E-P5 up to 1/8000. The reduced range available is indicated on the flash LCD.

In other words, never buy a flash without that HSS/FP mode if intending to do outdoors fill flash. Or use a camera with an in-lens shutter to make life simpler.

Regards.... Guy

 

[Photo Pete]

Unfortunately, the only TTL flash that will synch @ 1/320 Sec on the E-M1 is the clip on flash FL-LM2. All other TTL flashes (to my knowledge) drop the synch speed to 1/250 sec.

A way around this is to use a totally manual, non-TTL flash. If you shoot in Manual Exposure Mode, you can set the shutter speed and aperture wherever you wish. Set the shutter speed at 1/320 Sec and adjust aperture as need for the flash output and ambient light.

If there is enough ambient light, you can actually shoot faster than 1/320 Sec and still get good results.

This was shot at 1/800 Sec with excellent results, with an off camera flash as my key light.

--
God Bless,
Greg
www.imagismphotos.com
www.mccroskery.zenfolio.com
www.pbase.com/daddyo

Just need to be aware that flash range can reduce when shooting at fast shutter speeds. A lot of flashes can need as long as 1/500th to 1/800th second to discharge a full power flash, so if you are shooting faster than this then the maximum flash power may be limited.

--
Have Fun
Photo Pete

 

[Guy Parsons]

Just need to be aware that flash range can reduce when shooting at fast shutter speeds. A lot of flashes can need as long as 1/500th to 1/800th second to discharge a full power flash, so if you are shooting faster than this then the maximum flash power may be limited.

That would apply to in-lens shutters, not for M4/3 focal plane shutters and the usual consumer add-on flashes.

With Olympus flashes at faster shutter speeds you would be using the FP mode, so the continuous string of pulses covers the time the shutter slit travels across the sensor.

With Olympus if you tape off the comms contacts and shoot at faster than max sync speeds without using FP mode you get something like this.....

From my E-PL1 at 3:2 ratio and speeds from 1/320 to 1/2000.

Due to the FP sync output mode the maximum range is reduced and the flash indicates the potential range on its LCD.

Besides, for outdoors fill flash then the emphasis should be on subtlety where enough fill is made to lighten shadows but not enough to make it look "flashed". I find myself at up to minus 2 flash comp for that.

Regards..... Guy

 

[Paulmorgan]

Just need to be aware that flash range can reduce when shooting at fast shutter speeds. A lot of flashes can need as long as 1/500th to 1/800th second to discharge a full power flash, so if you are shooting faster than this then the maximum flash power may be limited.

That would apply to in-lens shutters, not for M4/3 focal plane shutters and the usual consumer add-on flashes.

With Olympus flashes at faster shutter speeds you would be using the FP mode, so the continuous string of pulses covers the time the shutter slit travels across the sensor.

With Olympus if you tape off the comms contacts and shoot at faster than max sync speeds without using FP mode you get something like this.....

From my E-PL1 at 3:2 ratio and speeds from 1/320 to 1/2000.

Due to the FP sync output mode the maximum range is reduced and the flash indicates the potential range on its LCD.

Besides, for outdoors fill flash then the emphasis should be on subtlety where enough fill is made to lighten shadows but not enough to make it look "flashed". I find myself at up to minus 2 flash comp for that.

Regards..... Guy

Much of it depends on the type of look that you want, some like chocolate box type landscapes (far removed from reality) my ratio usually starts at around 30% about 1/3 of a stop but it can end up almost anywhere depending on the look I`m after.

 

[Photo Pete]

Just need to be aware that flash range can reduce when shooting at fast shutter speeds. A lot of flashes can need as long as 1/500th to 1/800th second to discharge a full power flash, so if you are shooting faster than this then the maximum flash power may be limited.

That would apply to in-lens shutters, not for M4/3 focal plane shutters and the usual consumer add-on flashes.

With Olympus flashes at faster shutter speeds you would be using the FP mode, so the continuous string of pulses covers the time the shutter slit travels across the sensor.

With Olympus if you tape off the comms contacts and shoot at faster than max sync speeds without using FP mode you get something like this.....

From my E-PL1 at 3:2 ratio and speeds from 1/320 to 1/2000.

Due to the FP sync output mode the maximum range is reduced and the flash indicates the potential range on its LCD.

Besides, for outdoors fill flash then the emphasis should be on subtlety where enough fill is made to lighten shadows but not enough to make it look "flashed". I find myself at up to minus 2 flash comp for that.

Regards..... Guy

My mistake. Must have had a brain blip there! For some reason I was thinking about what used to happen with my Nikon D70. Could sync up to 1/8000 sec with manual flash due to it using a CCD with electronic gate which turned all pixels on and off at the same time. A sort of very early electronic global shutter if you like.

Nikon artificially restricted the flash sync speed to 1/500 sec in auto flash modes to prevent underexposure occuring due to the shutter speed being shorter than the flash discharge period.

--
Have Fun
Photo Pete

 

[Guy Parsons]

[flash compensation]

Much of it depends on the type of look that you want, some like chocolate box type landscapes (far removed from reality) my ratio usually starts at around 30% about 1/3 of a stop but it can end up almost anywhere depending on the look I`m after.

Outdoors for TTL fill with people it seems to be a matter of reducing flash until it looks right.

Indoors with TTL flash being the dominant light then I find it's the reverse, need to increase flash until it looks right. My indoors default flash comp stays at plus 1.3 and works for most cases, adjust to taste and to blinkies, varies in odd cases from 0 to plus 1.7 or even plus 2 at times.

Regards..... Guy

 

[Guy Parsons]

My mistake. Must have had a brain blip there! For some reason I was thinking about what used to happen with my Nikon D70. Could sync up to 1/8000 sec with manual flash due to it using a CCD with electronic gate which turned all pixels on and off at the same time. A sort of very early electronic global shutter if you like.

Nikon artificially restricted the flash sync speed to 1/500 sec in auto flash modes to prevent underexposure occuring due to the shutter speed being shorter than the flash discharge period.

I see similar things happen with my Panasonic LX3, it has in-lens shutter and a CCD sensor. The shutter may go to 1/2000 but the flash needs maybe over twice that time to dump most of its charge, so when full power flash is used the short shutter times will cut the exposure before the flash has done its thing. So exactly the same situation as with that early Nikon.

In other words, use high speed flash with caution and understand the limitations of shutters and sensors and of the flashes.

If it all were to be simple we would have nothing to talk about here, so praise the manufacturers and their gear with limitations and quirks!

Regards......... Guy

 

[Ragnar Jensen]

A way around this is to use a totally manual, non-TTL flash. If you shoot in Manual Exposure Mode, you can set the shutter speed and aperture wherever you wish. Set the shutter speed at 1/320 Sec and adjust aperture as need for the flash output and ambient light.

i have tried M mode, flash and camera, but i am still limited to 1/250 sec. So I assume you meant a flash that ONLY has manual mode, not both M and TTL

Even in full manual mode, the flash and the camera are communicating with each other, i.e. the camera knows that a flash is there. Put some tape over the smaller contacts in the hot-shoe and the camera will fire the flash at any shutter speed.
--
Ragnar

 

[Guy Parsons]

Even in full manual mode, the flash and the camera are communicating with each other, i.e. the camera knows that a flash is there. Put some tape over the smaller contacts in the hot-shoe and the camera will fire the flash at any shutter speed.

Yes, tape the contacts and any speed is available with Olympus, Panasonic early days did not work that way it seems.


Scotch Magic Tape best as it leaves no residue.

With the E-PL1 I could sync to 1/320 sec and with E-P5 to 1/400 sec. Higher speed than that of course get shutter shadows as in my other post here.

With Nikon flashes in the hot-shoe there was no need to tape the contacts.

Regards..... Guy

 

[Albert Valentino]

Even in full manual mode, the flash and the camera are communicating with each other, i.e. the camera knows that a flash is there. Put some tape over the smaller contacts in the hot-shoe and the camera will fire the flash at any shutter speed.

Yes, tape the contacts and any speed is available with Olympus, Panasonic early days did not work that way it seems.


Scotch Magic Tape best as it leaves no residue.

With the E-PL1 I could sync to 1/320 sec and with E-P5 to 1/400 sec. Higher speed than that of course get shutter shadows as in my other post here.

With Nikon flashes in the hot-shoe there was no need to tape the contacts.

Regards..... Guy

I would have thought that taping the contacts would defeat the purpose since there is no communication. But from the above picture it looks like the trick is to cover only part of the surface

--
If you don't get older and wiser, than you just get older.

 

[Guy Parsons]

I would have thought that taping the contacts would defeat the purpose since there is no communication. But from the above picture it looks like the trick is to cover only part of the surface

The taping in the example leaves the single trigger available that all normal flashes (with some sort of hot-shoe standard) will work from.

Olympus sends the flash trigger signal regardless so if no comms contacts then it doesn't even know that there is a flash in the shoe, or maybe if it does it then forgives the user and triggers it anyway. That allows any shutter speed at all to be used, but of course as it gets maybe near a stop faster than the max sync speed then shutter shadows start to intrude. With those little comms contacts taped then no TTL or FP mode, the flash has to be used in manual mode and set the power on the flash or use the flash self-auto mode where it alone reacts to the reflected light. Settings need to be matched on body and flash and fire some test shots to get it right.

For some years I used my old Nikon flashes on M4/3 and did not need to tape anything as the comms contacts were in different places.

Panasonic earlier had the trick of detecting a flash via that trigger contact and always sticking to max sync speed. Not sure how the latest models handle flash.

If you tape all the contacts off then the flash won't fire at all of course, unless you set up the RC menu and use an RC compatible flash and the body has a pop-up flash that is the RC master. My E-P5 plus FL-300r or FL-36R can do that trick. Also a simple S1 slave mode would work and have the body pop-up fire a single low power pop. But taping off all the contacts is being a bit silly.

Regards..... Guy

 

[enossified]

The limitation is due to the focal plane shutter in your camera. It's a camera body limit.

Slightly OT:

What I don't get is why the tiny flashes like the FL-LM2 or the pop-up on the E-M10 will synch at higher speeds than internal units.

The E-M10 manual states that the fastest spped is 1/250 with the internal flash, 1/200 with most external flashes and 1/180 with the FL-50R!!!! What is so special about these tiny strobes and what is wrong with the FL-50R?

I've never seen an explanation for this. Is this common with other camera systems?

 

[Guy Parsons]

The limitation is due to the focal plane shutter in your camera. It's a camera body limit.

Slightly OT:

What I don't get is why the tiny flashes like the FL-LM2 or the pop-up on the E-M10 will synch at higher speeds than internal units.

The E-M10 manual states that the fastest spped is 1/250 with the internal flash, 1/200 with most external flashes and 1/180 with the FL-50R!!!! What is so special about these tiny strobes and what is wrong with the FL-50R?

I've never seen an explanation for this. Is this common with other camera systems?

It's all to do with the flash tube and how fast it responds to power supplied and how long the maximum power flash pop lasts.

Smaller flashes attached to the body usually have smaller and shorter flash pops, so they can output full power and decay away within the highest sync speed.

Larger flashes and RC flashes have possible circuitry delays plus possibly longer and bigger maximum power pops so the precautionary move is to extend the shutter timing by having a slower max sync speed to allow the full flash to occupy the exposure period.

The FL-50R of course being the biggest of the bunch so has the longest and slowest flash pop hence the slowest max sync speed. Big studio flashes may get even worse where it may take 1/60 second exposure to gather the whole full power flash pulse.

Regards..... Guy

 

[Albert Valentino]

I would have thought that taping the contacts would defeat the purpose since there is no communication. But from the above picture it looks like the trick is to cover only part of the surface

The taping in the example leaves the single trigger available that all normal flashes (with some sort of hot-shoe standard) will work from.

Olympus sends the flash trigger signal regardless so if no comms contacts then it doesn't even know that there is a flash in the shoe, or maybe if it does it then forgives the user and triggers it anyway. That allows any shutter speed at all to be used, but of course as it gets maybe near a stop faster than the max sync speed then shutter shadows start to intrude. With those little comms contacts taped then no TTL or FP mode, the flash has to be used in manual mode and set the power on the flash or use the flash self-auto mode where it alone reacts to the reflected light. Settings need to be matched on body and flash and fire some test shots to get it right.

For some years I used my old Nikon flashes on M4/3 and did not need to tape anything as the comms contacts were in different places.

Panasonic earlier had the trick of detecting a flash via that trigger contact and always sticking to max sync speed. Not sure how the latest models handle flash.

If you tape all the contacts off then the flash won't fire at all of course, unless you set up the RC menu and use an RC compatible flash and the body has a pop-up flash that is the RC master. My E-P5 plus FL-300r or FL-36R can do that trick. Also a simple S1 slave mode would work and have the body pop-up fire a single low power pop. But taping off all the contacts is being a bit silly.

Regards..... Guy

Thanks. Good info