Dynamic range advice

[RebelCake]

I'm looking for some advice on dynamic range.

Recently, I was on a long vacation in the US, and took lots of photos. I used mostly the GX80 with 14-140, and also a GX800 with the 7-14. I'm a casual photographer and use mostly SOOC Jpegs. I was generally pretty happy with the photos, except for the skies sometimes. I took the following photos in Chicago. I took the first picture with the GX80, and the sky looked really flat. I then took the same picture with my S22+ phone.





In reviewing the pictures later, to my surprise, the sky looked much better on the S22+ image. I had checked the ISO to make sure it was at 200 on the GX80, and I thought that should maximize the dynamic range.

Am I being unrealistic as to what to expect a m43 sensor from 2016 to do?

I'm hoping that there are things I can improve, to avoid this issue in the future. Looking forward to hearing feedback on this.

(I know, shooting raw might be better, but it is not my cup of tea, so I shoot jpg only.)

 

[Tom Caldwell]

A lot depends on metering and if the camera meters off a dark subject matter, whether it is back lit or not. The camera/phone metering is set to try and make the general image appear how it thinks the user might like to see the finished product.

Therefore different metering, different EV setting, different expectations of what the user wishes to see can result in different end result in jpg.

Not necessarily a dynamic range issue as the RAW file would contain more detail in this regard that can be extracted by altering the processing information in the metadata file.

This can be done by processing the raw file which could both bring out both the detail in the dark building and the lighter sky at the same time.

But if you wish to avoid the need to process of manipulating the raw file then you could try both varying the type of metering and changing the EV setting per image to partially over-ride the camera's engine that is trying to make the best image it can out of the settings that you are using.

 

[Interceptor121]

Phones automatically create HDR shots on sensor

while your camera is doing a single shot in joeg

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[ahaslett]

It looks like base ISO on the GX80 might be 100.

That S22 image looks really ugly, like a bad HDR process. You could get something like that by using Snapseed on your jpeg.

There is no way that single image DR on an S22 will beat a GX80. If you had auto HDR on, maybe it took multiple images. My Olympus bodies have all been able to do that in camera, like phones.

It looks to me as though your problem is a dull sky.

This was taken in RAW with a camera with plenty of DR and then processed to extract the maximum of what little texture there was in the sky.





The sky was wonderful when I parked at the bottom of the hill.

This looks better in B&W, you might try that.

Andrew

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[kalisti]

Check the HDR and iDynamic sections of the manual.

I dont use HDR, its a multi shot combo afaik.

iDynamic is a single shot with the curve tweaked, from the manual,

'Contrast and exposure are compensated when the brightness difference between the background and subject is great'

theres auto and high to low settings for extra control, imaging resource has covered this with examples, maybe check a couple of their reviews.

Either would help, but it depends on the subject/situation as to which will work best.

 

[Bored Gerbil]

Probably a good candidate for Luminar software 'sky replacement'.

Excuse the artistic licence taken...




Edited with Luminar AI

 

[meow]

A lot depends on metering and if the camera meters off a dark subject matter, whether it is back lit or not. The camera/phone metering is set to try and make the general image appear how it thinks the user might like to see the finished product.

Therefore different metering, different EV setting, different expectations of what the user wishes to see can result in different end result in jpg.

Not necessarily a dynamic range issue as the RAW file would contain more detail in this regard that can be extracted by altering the processing information in the metadata file.

This can be done by processing the raw file which could both bring out both the detail in the dark building and the lighter sky at the same time.

But if you wish to avoid the need to process of manipulating the raw file then you could try both varying the type of metering and changing the EV setting per image to partially over-ride the camera's engine that is trying to make the best image it can out of the settings that you are using.

Yes. The image is overexposed, as far as the sky is concerned. The lower left part of the sky is blown out. There's nothing there. Had that not been the case you might have been able to save it, but nothing can be done about data that isn't there.

 

[joeletx]

I have the S22 Ultra and was impressed by its capabilities especially the auto HDR at hand held. I think your S22+ behaved the same way with the building shot. If I am not mistaken the S22+ set the computational HDR by default and turn on when the conditions demand. My E-M1 III can shoot HDR hand held too but I have to turn it on manually and set the appropriate shutter speed. The phone does everything automatically.

 

[Bobapingu]

I certainly can't beat Bored Gerbill However, despite the sky being blown on the left and it being a jpeg, I've a put a bit of life into it with LrC. Of course, that doesn't help the OP who wants a better OOC jpeg.

 

[Messier Object]

in the phone image you will see a narrow white border right around the building which suggest to me that the phone has darkened the sky right up to but not touching the building - some in-phone image processing going on there

Peter

 

[Glen Barrington]

Sorry, too much, in my opinion. Sky replacement COULD work, but sometimes, less is more.

Probably a good candidate for Luminar software 'sky replacement'.

Excuse the artistic licence taken...


Edited with Luminar AI

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[Funkmon]

Everyone is correct. Your phone has taken an HDR image and your camera has correctly exposed for the building but not the sky. You can tweak this, but it's a little advanced. On an Olympus you are able to set it up to bring the highlights down and the shadows up in a tone curve tool so you don't have to develop raw images. I'm 95% sure Panasonic does the same thing.

That being said, it might be time to learn to do Raw.

 

[Tom Axford]

I'm looking for some advice on dynamic range.

Recently, I was on a long vacation in the US, and took lots of photos. I used mostly the GX80 with 14-140, and also a GX800 with the 7-14. I'm a casual photographer and use mostly SOOC Jpegs. I was generally pretty happy with the photos, except for the skies sometimes. I took the following photos in Chicago. I took the first picture with the GX80, and the sky looked really flat. I then took the same picture with my S22+ phone.





In reviewing the pictures later, to my surprise, the sky looked much better on the S22+ image. I had checked the ISO to make sure it was at 200 on the GX80, and I thought that should maximize the dynamic range.

Am I being unrealistic as to what to expect a m43 sensor from 2016 to do?

I'm hoping that there are things I can improve, to avoid this issue in the future. Looking forward to hearing feedback on this.

(I know, shooting raw might be better, but it is not my cup of tea, so I shoot jpg only.)

It is the processing that differs between the two shots above, the sensor is largely irrelevant.

You have said you don't want to do your own processing (from raw images), so you have to find the camera settings that will do what you want to the JPEGs that the camera produces. The "iDynamic" setting in the menu is the one that affects the dynamic range. Try setting that to "High" and it should help with scenes like the one above.

 

[RebelCake]

Thanks for the input. I think the GX80 was already set to iDynamic high, but apparently that was not enough in this case. Perhaps I can try to underexpose in such cases in the future.

Would the 20MP sensors have more headroom to handle this kind of thing better?

To be honest, it'a bit dissapointing that the phone does a better job with that sky than the camera. I know that it's doing HDR trickery and all that. Nevertheless, I can't help but think: why can't the camera do it as well?

 

[ahaslett]

Going further back than 2016, the EM1.1 has in camera HDR. You have to turn it on, but it can be done from the shooting mode button.

A used EM1.1 is pretty cheap. Only 16Mpix and you have to make Large Super Fine jpegs an option if a jpeg shooter. I shoot with 16Mpix quite a bit and it should be fine for that kind of image. The EM1.2 is a better camera and has 20Mpix but costs a bit more, actually a bargain in terms of IQ.

If you want something smaller, wait until the OM5 has been on sale a few weeks and get a used EM5.3.

Don’t know which Panasonic bodies have in camera HDR.

Andrew

 

[Tom Axford]

Thanks for the input. I think the GX80 was already set to iDynamic high, but apparently that was not enough in this case.

I think that is probably correct. The image from the phone was what I would call extreme. Personally, I don't like the strong halos around the darker areas of the image, but I accept that it is all a matter of taste and images like this are becoming very common.

Perhaps I can try to underexpose in such cases in the future.

I doubt if that will help.

Would the 20MP sensors have more headroom to handle this kind of thing better?

This difference would be insignificant. It is all in the processing.

To be honest, it'a bit dissapointing that the phone does a better job with that sky than the camera. I know that it's doing HDR trickery and all that. Nevertheless, I can't help but think: why can't the camera do it as well?

The camera certainly could if the manufacturer wished to do it. I suspect that cameras will move more in this direction if more people want it. Many photographers achieve the effects they want by processing raw images themselves. I get the impression that probably most people in the dpreview forums process their own images.

 

[paolop23]

SOOC especially from older cameras are not on the same level as what phones give you in high contrast scenes with their automatic and smart retouching.

So either you process RAWs and expose for highlights and lift shadows in post or just dont bother and use the phone.

The phone also does distortion correction that kind of makes the buildings look skewed in the image from the camera. That, you would also need to correct in post yourself.

 

[paolop23]

Probably a good candidate for Luminar software 'sky replacement'.

Excuse the artistic licence taken...


Edited with Luminar AI

 

[Bobapingu]

Many photographers achieve the effects they want by processing raw images themselves. I get the impression that probably most people in the dpreview forums process their own images.

Well yeah, that's half the fun. Wildlife doesn't hang around posing while you to get the lighting and settings right. Much of the composition correction and lighting adjustment has to come later.

 

[Tom Axford]

Many photographers achieve the effects they want by processing raw images themselves. I get the impression that probably most people in the dpreview forums process their own images.

Well yeah, that's half the fun. Wildlife doesn't hang around posing while you to get the lighting and settings right. Much of the composition correction and lighting adjustment has to come later.

I agree, I save raw images and process them to my own taste.

However, I think there is probably a market for cameras that produce SOOC JPEGs using the AI processing techniques commonly used in modern smartphone cameras. I see no reason why some cameras shouldn't have an auto mode that produces just as "good" images as you get from smartphones.

I probably wouldn't use it myself, but some people would.