Dual processor system users

[Roy]

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build. Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before placing my order I would like to check with you that are experienced with dual processing systems.

Thanks
Roy

PS

Will be used in my Studio business. Will have much Photoshop and graphics usage.

 

[Anders Borum]

Hello!

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

I use a Tyan Tiger with two 1.2Ghz AthlonMP chips and 768MB of Crucial PC2100 DDR-RAM, an Adaptec 19160 Ultra160 controller with an IBM 18.2GB 10.000 Rpm drive for the system partition and 4 x 40GB IDE100 IBM 7200 Rpm drives for data. For display, I use a trusty old Asus GeForce 256, which is soon to be replaced with a Quaddo DCC card (workstation graphics).

My use is primarily graphics-oriented software such as high-end 3D software (XSI, Maya and so forth) and ofcourse a lot of Photoshop. I'm going to upgrade the CPUs to the latest AthlonMP 1900+ chips, or perhaps the new AthlonMP 2000+ chips coming out soon.

Even at 1.2Ghz, this system smokes. You would want no less than 1.2Ghz chips, but they will work extremely well for you. I used the Tyan Thunder board too, but the proprietary power-supply (PSU) from NMB was simply too loud for my taste.

I use a custom built noise-reduced case with NoiseControl (tm) frames (a rubber-web holds each harddrive preventing resonance from spreading). Make sure you get some good coolers. I recommend the Molex Radial Fin (oversize - with solid cobber-core) heatsinks, which cool well and are extremely silent for what they do (24db).

If you go for 7200Rpm data-drives, make sure you provide some kind of internal fan, circulating the air away from the harddrives. This mostly apply if you're using dampening material in your case, which is highly recommended.

Any questions? =o)---- with regards anders lundholm · [email protected] the sphereworx / monoliner experience

 

[Eric Jacobsen]

Anders,

Do you have any suggestions for sources for the components?

Eric

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

I use a Tyan Tiger with two 1.2Ghz AthlonMP chips and 768MB of
Crucial PC2100 DDR-RAM, an Adaptec 19160 Ultra160 controller with
an IBM 18.2GB 10.000 Rpm drive for the system partition and 4 x
40GB IDE100 IBM 7200 Rpm drives for data. For display, I use a
trusty old Asus GeForce 256, which is soon to be replaced with a
Quaddo DCC card (workstation graphics).

My use is primarily graphics-oriented software such as high-end 3D
software (XSI, Maya and so forth) and ofcourse a lot of Photoshop.
I'm going to upgrade the CPUs to the latest AthlonMP 1900+ chips,
or perhaps the new AthlonMP 2000+ chips coming out soon.

Even at 1.2Ghz, this system smokes. You would want no less than
1.2Ghz chips, but they will work extremely well for you. I used the
Tyan Thunder board too, but the proprietary power-supply (PSU) from
NMB was simply too loud for my taste.

I use a custom built noise-reduced case with NoiseControl (tm)
frames (a rubber-web holds each harddrive preventing resonance from
spreading). Make sure you get some good coolers. I recommend the
Molex Radial Fin (oversize - with solid cobber-core) heatsinks,
which cool well and are extremely silent for what they do (24db).

If you go for 7200Rpm data-drives, make sure you provide some kind
of internal fan, circulating the air away from the harddrives. This
mostly apply if you're using dampening material in your case, which
is highly recommended.

Any questions? =o)
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

 

[Lane Veillon]

I don't particularly agree with all that is written...Only because I build these monsters DAILY...I first started out with Intel only because it was the ONLY! When AMD came out I worked with them for a while and also tried several Cyrix systems...I just sold my last AMD!!! I have built 19 systems with almost the same identical components and everyone of them had it's own little tendencies! I go on the record for saying " AMD is Very Inconsistent"!!!!! Six of the 19 were Dual processor systems...the best of what could be bought...I'm talking the newest MP processors~ Now when they are running....When they are running they work very well in CAD and in the 3D world especially games! But in the Photoshop and 2D imaging world of Digital photography the Intel Pentium is THE BEST! Totally stable!!! The days of AMD being cheaper are GONE! If anyone can show me a total savings of $75-$100 I will retract my statements(for whatever that's worth) A big thing is that Intel has already gone to a 0.13 micron processor where AMD won't until later this year...This easily brings Intel into 3.0 ghz processors...Anyway...Be sure you are ready for Win2000(not XP yet). When you purchase euipment or if you are going to use some componenets that you already have...You need to make sure they have available drivers for Win2K! I would also Highly recommend going with an ON_Board RAID setup...this saves $$ and space! The difference in ATA100 single drive transfer and ATA100 RAID...! There are a lot of things that I can go into, but I've wasted enough space here...Feel free for anyone to email me at [email protected]...I'd be happy to recommend anything and help you find the best people/prices/setup to go with! To answer the Main question...No I truly believe/found out that a single processor is the best setup to go with even with AMD in a Digital Imaging world! For 3D and CAD you can try with a Dual system...but be prepared for about 2 weeks of tweaking! Thanks for your time!
Laneyrd

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

I use a Tyan Tiger with two 1.2Ghz AthlonMP chips and 768MB of
Crucial PC2100 DDR-RAM, an Adaptec 19160 Ultra160 controller with
an IBM 18.2GB 10.000 Rpm drive for the system partition and 4 x
40GB IDE100 IBM 7200 Rpm drives for data. For display, I use a
trusty old Asus GeForce 256, which is soon to be replaced with a
Quaddo DCC card (workstation graphics).

My use is primarily graphics-oriented software such as high-end 3D
software (XSI, Maya and so forth) and ofcourse a lot of Photoshop.
I'm going to upgrade the CPUs to the latest AthlonMP 1900+ chips,
or perhaps the new AthlonMP 2000+ chips coming out soon.

Even at 1.2Ghz, this system smokes. You would want no less than
1.2Ghz chips, but they will work extremely well for you. I used the
Tyan Thunder board too, but the proprietary power-supply (PSU) from
NMB was simply too loud for my taste.

I use a custom built noise-reduced case with NoiseControl (tm)
frames (a rubber-web holds each harddrive preventing resonance from
spreading). Make sure you get some good coolers. I recommend the
Molex Radial Fin (oversize - with solid cobber-core) heatsinks,
which cool well and are extremely silent for what they do (24db).

If you go for 7200Rpm data-drives, make sure you provide some kind
of internal fan, circulating the air away from the harddrives. This
mostly apply if you're using dampening material in your case, which
is highly recommended.

Any questions? =o)
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

 

[Ron Reznick]

The dual-Athlon 1800+ on Tyan Tiger MP with Corsair Registered PC2100 (Nanya chips), either 19160 or 29160 SCSI, IBM (solid) or Seagate (faster) high-speed drives, Plextor opticals, and either 3D Labs G-VX1 or Elsa Synergy III or Elsa Gloria III makes a blazing graphics workstation. I just built a couple, one with a G-VX1 and one with a Synergy III, one with a 19160 and one with a 29160, plus I also did a single 1800+ 1GB/19160/108GB HDs/G-VX1 and a 1.2GHz/768MB/19160 system. The 1800+ single-CPU really is faster than just about anything else besides a dual for graphics work.

Here's a look at the single. I'll shoot a picture of one of the duals tomorrow.



Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

I use a Tyan Tiger with two 1.2Ghz AthlonMP chips and 768MB of
Crucial PC2100 DDR-RAM, an Adaptec 19160 Ultra160 controller with
an IBM 18.2GB 10.000 Rpm drive for the system partition and 4 x
40GB IDE100 IBM 7200 Rpm drives for data. For display, I use a
trusty old Asus GeForce 256, which is soon to be replaced with a
Quaddo DCC card (workstation graphics).

My use is primarily graphics-oriented software such as high-end 3D
software (XSI, Maya and so forth) and ofcourse a lot of Photoshop.
I'm going to upgrade the CPUs to the latest AthlonMP 1900+ chips,
or perhaps the new AthlonMP 2000+ chips coming out soon.

Even at 1.2Ghz, this system smokes. You would want no less than
1.2Ghz chips, but they will work extremely well for you. I used the
Tyan Thunder board too, but the proprietary power-supply (PSU) from
NMB was simply too loud for my taste.

I use a custom built noise-reduced case with NoiseControl (tm)
frames (a rubber-web holds each harddrive preventing resonance from
spreading). Make sure you get some good coolers. I recommend the
Molex Radial Fin (oversize - with solid cobber-core) heatsinks,
which cool well and are extremely silent for what they do (24db).

If you go for 7200Rpm data-drives, make sure you provide some kind
of internal fan, circulating the air away from the harddrives. This
mostly apply if you're using dampening material in your case, which
is highly recommended.

Any questions? =o)
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

--Ron Reznick http://digital-images.nethttp://trapagon.com

 

[Lane Veillon]

Dood...That's looks NICE! Especially the case...Is that a Lian? To me the SCSI is about 20% faster than the ATA100 RAID...With ATA 133 coming soon that gap will close...To define a digital workstation to me is in two different categories...Digital Video/3D workstation which is really this awesome machine you've built! And...Digital 2D image manipulation machine that I build and own. The machine that you have will definatly do the job of the second machine, but sometimes not as well as one streamlined to 2D. The graphics that you are using are Way Overkill for Photoshop or very similar applications...also the scsi drives and minor hassles that go along with the scsi devices. I have a SCSI RAID server that is awesome, but I still have the occasional SCSI problems...Plus if my workstation HD's go down the chances of me finding one in town that won't temporarily break me are much better! What kind of $$ would it take to get a box like the one you've shown(exactly)? A $99-$150 GeoForce 2 Ultra would do just as well and a lot cheaper...Just my opinion...spend the money on the CPU,MOBO,RAM and drives. At least someone else agrees on the speed of the single processor...I say spend the money from the extra processor or either a faster Hard Drive or the best RAM you can find...www.Mushkin.com is very well know for their quaility of different types/name-brands of memory. Good luck to the originator of the post!
Laneyrd

Here's a look at the single. I'll shoot a picture of one of the
duals tomorrow.



Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

I use a Tyan Tiger with two 1.2Ghz AthlonMP chips and 768MB of
Crucial PC2100 DDR-RAM, an Adaptec 19160 Ultra160 controller with
an IBM 18.2GB 10.000 Rpm drive for the system partition and 4 x
40GB IDE100 IBM 7200 Rpm drives for data. For display, I use a
trusty old Asus GeForce 256, which is soon to be replaced with a
Quaddo DCC card (workstation graphics).

My use is primarily graphics-oriented software such as high-end 3D
software (XSI, Maya and so forth) and ofcourse a lot of Photoshop.
I'm going to upgrade the CPUs to the latest AthlonMP 1900+ chips,
or perhaps the new AthlonMP 2000+ chips coming out soon.

Even at 1.2Ghz, this system smokes. You would want no less than
1.2Ghz chips, but they will work extremely well for you. I used the
Tyan Thunder board too, but the proprietary power-supply (PSU) from
NMB was simply too loud for my taste.

I use a custom built noise-reduced case with NoiseControl (tm)
frames (a rubber-web holds each harddrive preventing resonance from
spreading). Make sure you get some good coolers. I recommend the
Molex Radial Fin (oversize - with solid cobber-core) heatsinks,
which cool well and are extremely silent for what they do (24db).

If you go for 7200Rpm data-drives, make sure you provide some kind
of internal fan, circulating the air away from the harddrives. This
mostly apply if you're using dampening material in your case, which
is highly recommended.

Any questions? =o)
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

--
Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

 

[fnord77]

Check out the reviews and guides on anandtech.com. They really like the AMD processors. They also had a favorable review of Tyan MP mobo. Lots of other good info there too, like price comparisons and case reviews. tomshardware.com has good info too.

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

Thanks
Roy

PS
Will be used in my Studio business. Will have much Photoshop and
graphics usage.

 

[Michael OHara]

How much do you charge for one of these puppies Ron? Email me privately if you like. I've outgrown the off the shelf Dell systems and have more than maxed out my primative xps R400. 384 megs of ram used to seem like such a lot!

Hey! If we work a deal, maybe you'll have to hand deliver to me in Honolulu....just a thought.

Here's a look at the single. I'll shoot a picture of one of the
duals tomorrow.



Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

I use a Tyan Tiger with two 1.2Ghz AthlonMP chips and 768MB of
Crucial PC2100 DDR-RAM, an Adaptec 19160 Ultra160 controller with
an IBM 18.2GB 10.000 Rpm drive for the system partition and 4 x
40GB IDE100 IBM 7200 Rpm drives for data. For display, I use a
trusty old Asus GeForce 256, which is soon to be replaced with a
Quaddo DCC card (workstation graphics).

My use is primarily graphics-oriented software such as high-end 3D
software (XSI, Maya and so forth) and ofcourse a lot of Photoshop.
I'm going to upgrade the CPUs to the latest AthlonMP 1900+ chips,
or perhaps the new AthlonMP 2000+ chips coming out soon.

Even at 1.2Ghz, this system smokes. You would want no less than
1.2Ghz chips, but they will work extremely well for you. I used the
Tyan Thunder board too, but the proprietary power-supply (PSU) from
NMB was simply too loud for my taste.

I use a custom built noise-reduced case with NoiseControl (tm)
frames (a rubber-web holds each harddrive preventing resonance from
spreading). Make sure you get some good coolers. I recommend the
Molex Radial Fin (oversize - with solid cobber-core) heatsinks,
which cool well and are extremely silent for what they do (24db).

If you go for 7200Rpm data-drives, make sure you provide some kind
of internal fan, circulating the air away from the harddrives. This
mostly apply if you're using dampening material in your case, which
is highly recommended.

Any questions? =o)
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

--
Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

--Michael OHara / WetPlanet / Honoluluwww.DiveSlates.com

 

[Ron Reznick]

The case is a Cooler Master. I generally use two different models of their cases, and the one shown is my first system with a third (quite nice).

A large number of my clients do similar work to that which I do (which is one reason why they have me build their systems, I suppose). I have to tell you that the performance in AutoCAD, 3D applications, and other digital content creation gained by the use of the cards mentioned is superior to any of the gaming cards, primarily because of the optimizations capable of being set in the drivers or in the applications themselves. There are cracks and tweaks that can be applied to the gaming cards that enable some things that improve performance, but a lot of folks don't want to do that and their time is worth more when working than when tweaking things. The drivers can also be optimized for Photoshop work, and the two G-VX1--based systems are set up that way as delivered by me, with a simple right-click-and-reboot change necessary to optimize for AutoCAD, MAX, etc. The Synergy III does a really fine job right out of the box in Photoshop, and you'd be amazed what can be done with it in AutoCAD, etc. The 2D work it does in applications like CorelDraw, InDesign, Pshop, Nikon Capture, etc. is more than sufficient for my standards, and I'm known to be a tad picky...

Many people would rather work with a card and driver set designed for professional graphics usage, but I and quite a number of clients have worked with lesser cards that did a great job as long as you didn't push them in areas they weren't designed to handle.

The system shown is a little over $4000 worth of parts (three 36GB 10,000rpm drives take up a little over 1/4 of that cost), and for a working system offers no compromise.

The RAM modules in this workstation shown are hand-selected, top-grade Mushkin modules with heat-spreaders. I use product from several different manufacturers, depending on the situation and the motherboard used -- Mushkin is definitely one of the good ones for some of those situations. As you know, matching the parts properly makes one heck of a lot of difference when it comes to cutting edge gear. It's less of a problem as you back down the curve.

Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

The dual-Athlon 1800+ on Tyan Tiger MP with Corsair Registered
PC2100 (Nanya chips), either 19160 or 29160 SCSI, IBM (solid) or
Seagate (faster) high-speed drives, Plextor opticals, and either 3D
Labs G-VX1 or Elsa Synergy III or Elsa Gloria III makes a blazing
graphics workstation. I just built a couple, one with a G-VX1 and
one with a Synergy III, one with a 19160 and one with a 29160, plus
I also did a single 1800+ 1GB/19160/108GB HDs/G-VX1 and a
1.2GHz/768MB/19160 system. The 1800+ single-CPU really is faster
than just about anything else besides a dual for graphics work.

Here's a look at the single. I'll shoot a picture of one of the
duals tomorrow.



Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com--Ron Reznick http://digital-images.nethttp://trapagon.com

 

[Ron Reznick]

Hi Mike,

We can design the system together based on your needs and budget, and believe me you will be in geek heaven. I'll get in touch with you off-list and we can figure out what you need and how you want it configured.

Ron

PS: hand delivery and setup in Honolulu would be cool with me :^)

Hey! If we work a deal, maybe you'll have to hand deliver to me in
Honolulu....just a thought.

Here's a look at the single. I'll shoot a picture of one of the
duals tomorrow.



Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

Have decided to go to a dual processor system which I will build.
Of those of you using dual processor systems which motherboards and
processors, intel or AMD do you feel are the best today. I am
currently leaning to the AMD processors and a tyan board but before
placing my order I would like to check with you that are
experienced with dual processing systems.

I use a Tyan Tiger with two 1.2Ghz AthlonMP chips and 768MB of
Crucial PC2100 DDR-RAM, an Adaptec 19160 Ultra160 controller with
an IBM 18.2GB 10.000 Rpm drive for the system partition and 4 x
40GB IDE100 IBM 7200 Rpm drives for data. For display, I use a
trusty old Asus GeForce 256, which is soon to be replaced with a
Quaddo DCC card (workstation graphics).

My use is primarily graphics-oriented software such as high-end 3D
software (XSI, Maya and so forth) and ofcourse a lot of Photoshop.
I'm going to upgrade the CPUs to the latest AthlonMP 1900+ chips,
or perhaps the new AthlonMP 2000+ chips coming out soon.

Even at 1.2Ghz, this system smokes. You would want no less than
1.2Ghz chips, but they will work extremely well for you. I used the
Tyan Thunder board too, but the proprietary power-supply (PSU) from
NMB was simply too loud for my taste.

I use a custom built noise-reduced case with NoiseControl (tm)
frames (a rubber-web holds each harddrive preventing resonance from
spreading). Make sure you get some good coolers. I recommend the
Molex Radial Fin (oversize - with solid cobber-core) heatsinks,
which cool well and are extremely silent for what they do (24db).

If you go for 7200Rpm data-drives, make sure you provide some kind
of internal fan, circulating the air away from the harddrives. This
mostly apply if you're using dampening material in your case, which
is highly recommended.

Any questions? =o)
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

--
Ron Reznick
http://digital-images.net
http://trapagon.com

--
Michael OHara / WetPlanet / Honolulu
http://www.DiveSlates.com

--Ron Reznick http://digital-images.nethttp://trapagon.com

 

[Jon ...]

Not a popular option, but a cheap one ...

Or, on eBay, one can purchase a used IBM Z-Pro with dual Xeon processors, 1gb of memory, with a 9gig Scsi for $750. I picked up two of them when they were listed for $650. A liquidator is still clearing some out from a DotCom.

Yes, these are a bit dated, and yes, not that fast, but, for the money, I felt they could not be beat. What used to take an hour, is now less than twenty minutes.

Jon ...

 

[Anders Borum]

Hello!

Intel Pentium is THE BEST! Totally stable!!!

I've head that sentence a lot lately. It used to be my mantra a while ago.

If You're indicating, that Intel is still the king, you're wrong. They're the fastest in some areas of computing (actually, the only area is Photoshop graphics, if I remember and some game stuff). AMDs FPU performance (which is also critical in Photoshop and enterprise software used on servers plus workstation graphics software), is vastly superiour. FPU performance has always been a very important issue for AMD chips and you can see it from performance.

I used to be an all Intel man, because of stability problems with the AMD chips. Gone are those days I tell you, and only old AMD chips exhibit instability. Very often, the instability was caused by the (excuse me) lame motherboards offered by the low-end market.

Today, the scene is different. AMDs AthlonMP 1900+ chips are by far the fastest for 95% of the applications out there. Even office apps. They approx. 50% the price of a similar rated Intel CPU in denmark at the moment, yielding a high cost-saving when building a dual system.

Oh, I forgot - the P4 doesn't go in duals yet. Sorry people.

Regarding stability, I must say that the Tyan Thunder/Tiger motherboards never let me down. I have been running killer tests on both systems for weeks (SETI, RC5, network rendering .. photoshop work .. at the same time) and never, never, never ever got a blue screen, reboot or crash. Never.

My good old dual PII 350Mhz on a Intel BX440 motherboard could never have done that.

If you stick with motherboards built around AMDs north/southbridges (the AMD760MP/MPX chipset and the AMD766 southbridge), like the boards frmo Tyan, you'll get a cutting-edge rocksolid system.

Trust me on this, okay? AMDs only drawback is that they run hotter than the quivalent Intel chips. Who cares? Get a pair of low-noise heatsinks like the Molex Radial Fins - or the Noise Control Silverrado ones.

anyone can show me a total savings of $75-$100 I will retract my
statements(for whatever that's worth) A big thing is that Intel has
already gone to a 0.13 micron processor where AMD won't until later
this year...This easily brings Intel into 3.0 ghz
processors...

Yes, that's right. And when they do, they'll hit 3Ghz too some day. Then Intels buys a new manufactoring process from IBM and hits 5Ghz, then AMD follows.

If you keep looking at the future, you'll nevet get anywhere today. Buy what suites you right now, and in the next 3 months. In 3 to 6 months, your gear is only worth a fraction of the initial costs.

I bought the 1.2Ghz MP chips because they were the fastest out there at that time. Around new years eve, I'll upgrade my 1.2Ghz chips to the new 1.6Ghz AthlonMP chips, yielding about a 35% speed increase. I get two chips at the price of one P4 chip. Each chip is equal to or faster than the P4.

You do the math. I am pro AMD because they have leaped Intel on quality, speed and price. I am con Intel, because of their high prices, that's it.---- with regards anders lundholm · [email protected] the sphereworx / monoliner experience

 

[Roy]

Great responses and helpful information from all of you. Keep it coming. I really appreciate your comments and assistance in this. I have built about 20 systems over the past 10 years and find that everytime I am ready to build again I have dropped out of the up to date information loop. It is really great to get quick USER knowledgeable information from those of you with the experience. Thanks for all you have done for me.

Roy

Not a popular option, but a cheap one ...

Or, on eBay, one can purchase a used IBM Z-Pro with dual Xeon
processors, 1gb of memory, with a 9gig Scsi for $750. I picked up
two of them when they were listed for $650. A liquidator is still
clearing some out from a DotCom.

Yes, these are a bit dated, and yes, not that fast, but, for the
money, I felt they could not be beat. What used to take an hour,
is now less than twenty minutes.

Jon ...

 

[Hammy #54417]

I've been building and working on PCs for the last 18 years. I've built up to 22 in one day, worked in server rooms with over 200 - most of them duals.

I built my first dual about a year ago. I will admit that building dual at that time was challenging and they were just emerging for higher end FPGA CPU's. Now the market has exploded with them and it is alot easier.

I believe that the issue between AMD and Intel is like Canon vs Nikon. Both fit the bill, each has their own advantages over the other. Intel is faster in this, AMD is faster in that... I would say that mobo manufacturers have more of the Intel stuff worked out - then again, they do not offer a P4 dual. AMD seems to come out and do things a little bit better - albeit, a little bit later.

With a dual - some programs run faster - some. Overall, you will notice an increase in performance in most applications because the background tasks by the OS will be able to pick up the full power of the second CPU when the first is busy - this is particularily noticble when say the print spooler kicks in. I can be running a 450,000 page print job which is heating up the primary CPU faster than a torch and when the spooler kicks in, it takes the second CPU up to about 65% utilization and never slows the processing of the print processing program - very nice!!!

The biggest advantage to dual systems is to be able to run multiple programs more efficiently - as well as the few that take advantage of SMP - some PS filters will. But this can make your systems cluttered and slow if you don't back up the CPU's with the rest of the components.

Hard drives - SCSI's have built in "multi-tasking" in the controller - the controller takes over sending and requesting data to let the computer go back to what it can. IDE is faster in a single drive comparison - but when using multiple SCSI's - it will barely slow down when you hit multiple drives/devices.

Video card - highly recommend dual video cards/monitors. With so many things open, you have to cover up other things that your using. I have 6 systems at home - 3 with multi-monitor setups, because it is so easy and nice to use.

Memory - it is way too cheap not to get as much as the mobo can handle - if you'll be using it. I've never run into a situation that too much memory hinders performance - if you don't have enough - your hard drive gets used as memory. THAT will hinder performance!

Anyway - go hang out at 2cpu.com and read the reviews, news and most of all hit the forums. That is where I lived when I was building my dual - all issues are covered there as they are here for digicams.

Good luck...

 

[Stan Disbrow]

Jon,

Yeah, I'm running one of these as well. It's not as neat as some of the newer machines, but it holds its' own pretty well. I agree that it's money well spent for one.

One thing I don't see anyone talking much about is pipelining their I/O to go along with the dual processors and large memory. The real bottleneck in any small computer is getting the data off of, or on to, the main storage device, which is generally a hard disk drive. This does not matter if the machine is based on Intel, AMD or Motorola technology. They all have the same problem in this regard.

I stuck an IBM ServRAID adapter in my machine which can support three arrays, with plenty of on-board caching. On channel 3 (the internal one in the main PC case), I have three 18 GB SCSI hardfiles (aka hard disk drives) set up as RAID level 0, which is data striping. On channels 1 and 2, which are external connectors on the back of the card, I have seven older 1 GB 9mS hardfiles on each. The drives in each array are spindle syncronized.

This gives me 54 GB on my main array, which is Drive C, and 7 GB each on Drive D and Drive E. The nature of RAID L0 is to stripe the data across the platters of all drives in the array such that the drives spend more time switching heads than they do seeking them. This greatly increases the read and write speeds of the drives, since they can switch heads in 20-30 nS vs. seeking in the 1 mS range.

Additionally, by choosing hardfiles that support spindle sync, this allows all the drives in each array to have their index sectors aligned so there is no waiting for the first sector on the next drive to rotate to the under the head. Everything is aligned such that the data is in the right spot when head switching bewteen drives.

The way I use this is to have the OS and programs on the 54 GB, three drive array and my input data on one of the 7 GB, seven drive arrays and use the other 7 GB, seven drive arrays for the output data. This really makes a huge difference when running automated batch processing on large numbers of shots. It's not all that important when processing one shot at a time by hand, since you spend more time selecting tasks than waiting for a file to load or save.

The two seven drive external arrays live in a seperate tower case from the main machine, with appropriate cooling. These drives are 10 years old now, and available surplus quite cheap. I bought quite a few of them at auction, and found this use for them.

Additionally, I run a standard Adptec SCSI card to run other I/O, like a DVD RAM, CDRW, Tape backup drives, JAZ drive, etc. Plus, I set up two additional 1 GB hardfiles on the Adaptec card for use as Windows 2k's and PhotoShop's swapfiles. Since I had the drives and a good place to stick them, that puts the swapfiles on their own drives on a seperate card from the main drives. (Yes, that's 19 physical hardfiles for one PC system - I should find a use for one more and make it an even 20.)

I suppose the next step will be to acquire a newer dual-processor main board at some point, but I'm pretty pleased with how this one worked out. Plus, it cost me less than $2500 total to put together.

Stan

Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer
(who used to be an IBM mainframe designer until downsized)
(which explains why I'd build such a beast of a PC, eh?)

Not a popular option, but a cheap one ...

Or, on eBay, one can purchase a used IBM Z-Pro with dual Xeon
processors, 1gb of memory, with a 9gig Scsi for $750. I picked up
two of them when they were listed for $650. A liquidator is still
clearing some out from a DotCom.

Yes, these are a bit dated, and yes, not that fast, but, for the
money, I felt they could not be beat. What used to take an hour,
is now less than twenty minutes.

Jon ...

--Stan

 

[Ron Reznick]

Anders, unless you know something I don't, the 1900+ doesn't yet come in an MP package -- the 1800+ is the fastest MP. While you could mount two XP 1900+ CPUs AMD supports only the MP CPUs for multiprocessing.

Ron

Intel Pentium is THE BEST! Totally stable!!!

I've head that sentence a lot lately. It used to be my mantra a
while ago.

If You're indicating, that Intel is still the king, you're wrong.
They're the fastest in some areas of computing (actually, the only
area is Photoshop graphics, if I remember and some game stuff).
AMDs FPU performance (which is also critical in Photoshop and
enterprise software used on servers plus workstation graphics
software), is vastly superiour. FPU performance has always been a
very important issue for AMD chips and you can see it from
performance.

I used to be an all Intel man, because of stability problems with
the AMD chips. Gone are those days I tell you, and only old AMD
chips exhibit instability. Very often, the instability was caused
by the (excuse me) lame motherboards offered by the low-end market.

Today, the scene is different. AMDs AthlonMP 1900+ chips are by far
the fastest for 95% of the applications out there. Even office
apps. They approx. 50% the price of a similar rated Intel CPU in
denmark at the moment, yielding a high cost-saving when building a
dual system.

Oh, I forgot - the P4 doesn't go in duals yet. Sorry people.

Regarding stability, I must say that the Tyan Thunder/Tiger
motherboards never let me down. I have been running killer tests on
both systems for weeks (SETI, RC5, network rendering .. photoshop
work .. at the same time) and never, never, never ever got a blue
screen, reboot or crash. Never.

My good old dual PII 350Mhz on a Intel BX440 motherboard could
never have done that.

If you stick with motherboards built around AMDs north/southbridges
(the AMD760MP/MPX chipset and the AMD766 southbridge), like the
boards frmo Tyan, you'll get a cutting-edge rocksolid system.

Trust me on this, okay? AMDs only drawback is that they run hotter
than the quivalent Intel chips. Who cares? Get a pair of low-noise
heatsinks like the Molex Radial Fins - or the Noise Control
Silverrado ones.

anyone can show me a total savings of $75-$100 I will retract my
statements(for whatever that's worth) A big thing is that Intel has
already gone to a 0.13 micron processor where AMD won't until later
this year...This easily brings Intel into 3.0 ghz
processors...

Yes, that's right. And when they do, they'll hit 3Ghz too some day.
Then Intels buys a new manufactoring process from IBM and hits
5Ghz, then AMD follows.

If you keep looking at the future, you'll nevet get anywhere today.
Buy what suites you right now, and in the next 3 months. In 3 to 6
months, your gear is only worth a fraction of the initial costs.

I bought the 1.2Ghz MP chips because they were the fastest out
there at that time. Around new years eve, I'll upgrade my 1.2Ghz
chips to the new 1.6Ghz AthlonMP chips, yielding about a 35% speed
increase. I get two chips at the price of one P4 chip. Each chip is
equal to or faster than the P4.

You do the math. I am pro AMD because they have leaped Intel on
quality, speed and price. I am con Intel, because of their high
prices, that's it.
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

--Ron Reznick http://digital-images.nethttp://trapagon.com

 

[Hammy #54417]

oh my....

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1005701405

 

[Anders Borum]

Hello Ron!

Anders, unless you know something I don't, the 1900+ doesn't yet
come in an MP package -- the 1800+ is the fastest MP. While you
could mount two XP 1900+ CPUs AMD supports only the MP CPUs for
multiprocessing.

Yes, I know I was a bit hasty there. The AthlonMP 1900+ is supposed to be released shortly before christmas I was told, and as the performance is almost linear to the Mhz, I made a personal conclusion.

The XP chips are reported to be quite fast too in SMP mode, but I'm not sure I want to take that route. Your commens?---- with regards anders lundholm · [email protected] the sphereworx / monoliner experience

 

[Ron Reznick]

The dual-CPU Athlons I've done have used MP chips -- I haven't experimented with dual XPs (no reason to). To be honest with you, I have little enough time as it is and have to carefully plan my experimentations in each of the fields I'm in so that they relate to things that I will actually have a need for in the near future. There are certain periods in the year when things slow down, and that's when I generally can experiment on a more pure basis, just to find out stuff :^)

Ron

Anders, unless you know something I don't, the 1900+ doesn't yet
come in an MP package -- the 1800+ is the fastest MP. While you
could mount two XP 1900+ CPUs AMD supports only the MP CPUs for
multiprocessing.

Yes, I know I was a bit hasty there. The AthlonMP 1900+ is supposed
to be released shortly before christmas I was told, and as the
performance is almost linear to the Mhz, I made a personal
conclusion.

The XP chips are reported to be quite fast too in SMP mode, but I'm
not sure I want to take that route. Your commens?
--
--
with regards
anders lundholm · [email protected]
the sphereworx / monoliner experience

--Ron Reznick http://digital-images.nethttp://trapagon.com

 

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Why stop at four? I remember designing 10-way machines 15 years ago. Of course, those were a bit larger than a PC.

To do it in PC-sized boxes, just cluster them together on a dedicated SCSI bus. You can get eight machines clustered that way pretty easily. Then, you can tie the clusters via network cards, or even additional SCSI controllers.

That was my last development project at IBM 10 years ago now - high speed multi-PC clusters. It was one of the 'future' projects scrapped in the downsizing in 1993, and I went out the door with the project. It was deemed that the marketplace was not anywhere near ready for such a jump in PC performance (and it looks like they were right, too. It still isn't ready for such a thing).

Stan

oh my....

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1005701405

--Stan