Dpreview G1 Preview Revisited

safaridon

Senior Member
Messages
3,323
Reaction score
131
Location
Boise USA, ID, US
Kudos to Dpreveiw for their very timely and informative preview of the revolutionary G1 EVIL camera. Surprisingly members in the other 4/3rd forum initially showed greater interest in the m4/3 developments and new products than those in this forum. Some have commented that the G1 is little smaller than existing DSLRs etc without looking at the facts the pictures and dimensions given in Dpreveiw which clearly show the G1 to be 50% less volume than the L10 and 25% less than the E420! If they had looked at the cutaways showing the new large EVF it would be very evident why Pany used the traditional SLR shape to fit it and coming up with very good EVF to compete with OVF and fast auto focus are critical to its early acceptance. In fact the G1 is actually slightly smaller than the popular Canon S5 Superzoom which has only a 2.5 inch rotating LCD as compared to 3 inch in G1 and sensor 6 times bigger.

I note that the G1 body is 1 lb in weight same as E420 so appears denser than other DSLRs. Is it possible that the G1 has a stronger metal subframe and not all plastic?

As noted in the preview Pany is especially situated to take advantage of the new m4/3 format having no legacy of lenses to protect. At first I thought the m4/3 format would be benefit primarily for the wide angle to normal range or wide to moderate telephoto and not to the long telephoto range for sports or wildlife photography. But after hearing that the G1 Pany developed EVF system taken from their pro video camcorders actually can autofocus very quickly and almost in the dark and with lenses slower than F 5.6, I started to realize that with this system the slow and less expensive lenses will no longer be the major deterent they once were. This will permit Pany to develop a small 2x doubler for use with their 20 F1.7 and other primes to be developed or use 1.4 doubler with the telephotos. It seems reasonable that the G1 will be much faster and better yet more accurate than other autofocus systems in use in low light. No wonder Pany is planning high production for 45-200 lenses which cover the equivalent rant of 400 in 35mm.

Some wanted in body Image Stabization without realizing that the E210 already was reportedly too small to incorporate the same and also the fact that in lens IS is essential for video unless you like to watch the jiggles at high zoom ranges. I don't know of any camcorder that doesn't use in lens optical IS system as a result.

Others have brought into question the cost of the G1 or G2 and lens comparing it to the E420 and E520 without taking into consideration the G1 has an expensive swiveling back LCD and a new generation chip much more powerful and higher resolution and dynamic range much closer to the new future mini E3 in capability.

When Olympus showed their concept model of a m4/3 body many said this is the shape Pany should have used without realizing that this likely is just a copy cat of a model Pany already has in the works ready to release soon after the G1. Note the Olympus model sported the new Pany 20 1.7 lens and the fact their camera is yet to be developed and that may take at least a year. Pictures of this likely mini L1 from Pany have probably already been displayed with a removable EVF. Delay in releasing probably has more to do to not divert attention from the G1 for now and to wait for production of the new lenses the 20 1.7 and possible mini 24-80 zoom. Some forum participants have admitted seeing and handling a new shape model but can't release the information. I would expect that Pany would make the removable OVF such as used on LX3 which would enable them to keep the price down and be a bridge between the point and shoots and the DSLRs for those that want a very compact neat and transportable sytem like the rangefinder cameras. The top mount permits use of a future EVF similar to G1 system Before long I would anticipate that Pany would fit the FZ28 or similar lens with a smaller sensor into the G2 body to compete with other superzoom models especially to make use of the HD video capabilities of that body. For now Pany has a lock on the new EVF and only their new mini lenses will work fast enough with it.

Thats all for now and I will not have to convince my wife why I should buy into still another SLR system when I already have DSLRs and SLR from three other manufactures. The truth is I hate lugging all that weight and size around for telephoto use on wildlife safaries. Again many thanks to DPreview for you very good preview and we look forward to testing a production model.
 
I concur with all the above points. I would also like to point out the silliness of all the various posts regarding the G1 not being the right shape, not small enough, etc. Have these people looked at the Panasonic website? This camera is clearly not being marketed to professionals or street photography snobs and hearing everyone nitpick this camera to death without even seeing it has made me laugh in amazement.

The G1 was never intended to become the be-all end-all answer to micro-four-thirds. Just be glad that the G1 is as great as it seems to be. The quality can only go up from here, including miniature Leicas for way-too-much money and perhaps some other variation marketed toward professionals and other individuals not trying to have fun.

I'm getting a G1 the moment it hits the stores.

Cheers!
 
The G1 is meant as a DSLR replacement for those who do not want to upgrade to a DSLR for various reasons. It is not meant for those who already have DSLR equipment and look for a large-sensor pocketable camera to complement their larger equipment. That's where a lot of the misunderstanding comes from.

The G1 will compete directly with the entry level DSLRs from Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.

Personally I really enjoy live view and shooting from waist level with a fold out LCD, that makes the G1 very interesting for me.
 
Very well said.

I'm really excited about it but it won't be useful to me until the f1.7 20mm comes out. I hope it can give me enough shallow depth of field..

The one feature it lacks that I depend on is independent autofocus and exposure controls. In the Oly 520, I can set my half-press shutter to exposure only and set the ael/aef button for autofocus only. Doesn't seem possible on the G1.
Kudos to Dpreveiw for their very timely and informative preview of
the revolutionary G1 EVIL camera. Surprisingly members in the other
4/3rd forum initially showed greater interest in the m4/3
developments and new products than those in this forum. Some have
commented that the G1 is little smaller than existing DSLRs etc
without looking at the facts the pictures and dimensions given in
Dpreveiw which clearly show the G1 to be 50% less volume than the L10
and 25% less than the E420! If they had looked at the cutaways
showing the new large EVF it would be very evident why Pany used the
traditional SLR shape to fit it and coming up with very good EVF to
compete with OVF and fast auto focus are critical to its early
acceptance. In fact the G1 is actually slightly smaller than the
popular Canon S5 Superzoom which has only a 2.5 inch rotating LCD as
compared to 3 inch in G1 and sensor 6 times bigger.

I note that the G1 body is 1 lb in weight same as E420 so appears
denser than other DSLRs. Is it possible that the G1 has a stronger
metal subframe and not all plastic?

As noted in the preview Pany is especially situated to take advantage
of the new m4/3 format having no legacy of lenses to protect. At
first I thought the m4/3 format would be benefit primarily for the
wide angle to normal range or wide to moderate telephoto and not to
the long telephoto range for sports or wildlife photography. But
after hearing that the G1 Pany developed EVF system taken from their
pro video camcorders actually can autofocus very quickly and almost
in the dark and with lenses slower than F 5.6, I started to realize
that with this system the slow and less expensive lenses will no
longer be the major deterent they once were. This will permit Pany
to develop a small 2x doubler for use with their 20 F1.7 and other
primes to be developed or use 1.4 doubler with the telephotos. It
seems reasonable that the G1 will be much faster and better yet more
accurate than other autofocus systems in use in low light. No
wonder Pany is planning high production for 45-200 lenses which cover
the equivalent rant of 400 in 35mm.

Some wanted in body Image Stabization without realizing that the E210
already was reportedly too small to incorporate the same and also the
fact that in lens IS is essential for video unless you like to watch
the jiggles at high zoom ranges. I don't know of any camcorder that
doesn't use in lens optical IS system as a result.

Others have brought into question the cost of the G1 or G2 and lens
comparing it to the E420 and E520 without taking into consideration
the G1 has an expensive swiveling back LCD and a new generation chip
much more powerful and higher resolution and dynamic range much
closer to the new future mini E3 in capability.

When Olympus showed their concept model of a m4/3 body many said this
is the shape Pany should have used without realizing that this likely
is just a copy cat of a model Pany already has in the works ready to
release soon after the G1. Note the Olympus model sported the new
Pany 20 1.7 lens and the fact their camera is yet to be developed and
that may take at least a year. Pictures of this likely mini L1 from
Pany have probably already been displayed with a removable EVF.
Delay in releasing probably has more to do to not divert attention
from the G1 for now and to wait for production of the new lenses the
20 1.7 and possible mini 24-80 zoom. Some forum participants have
admitted seeing and handling a new shape model but can't release the
information. I would expect that Pany would make the removable OVF
such as used on LX3 which would enable them to keep the price down
and be a bridge between the point and shoots and the DSLRs for those
that want a very compact neat and transportable sytem like the
rangefinder cameras. The top mount permits use of a future EVF
similar to G1 system Before long I would anticipate that Pany would
fit the FZ28 or similar lens with a smaller sensor into the G2 body
to compete with other superzoom models especially to make use of the
HD video capabilities of that body. For now Pany has a lock on the
new EVF and only their new mini lenses will work fast enough with it.

Thats all for now and I will not have to convince my wife why I
should buy into still another SLR system when I already have DSLRs
and SLR from three other manufactures. The truth is I hate lugging
all that weight and size around for telephoto use on wildlife
safaries. Again many thanks to DPreview for you very good preview
and we look forward to testing a production model.
--
Rishi O'
http://www.rishio.com
 
Thank you for this unusual deep analysis!

After Photokina it relly seems that Olympus can not scope with the expectations regarding m4/3 at the moment and it is up to Panasonic to really start this revolution. I too think that it was a wise decision to not begin it with the smallest possible camera, but with one that features more professional controls and attract the attention of professionals too. The latter are the opinion makers, will give the better feedback to Panasonic and simultanously will positively influence the media on m4/3.

If professionals start using mirrorless m4/3's like they started using 35mm Leicas almost a century ago, then a breakthrough will have been accomplished.

I am also travel-photographer and alpinist and can tell you that I know more than one fellow in this domain who even buck their toothbrush to save weight. So 100 g less weight to carry means 1 bar of chocolate more --> means 3 days more to survive;-)

Honestly, together with a set of 2-3 lenses these weight savings mean a lot to travellers!
--
experts in applied dilettantism
seria ludo - res est severa voluptas!
 
The G1 is meant as a DSLR replacement for those who do not want to
upgrade to a DSLR for various reasons. It is not meant for those who
already have DSLR equipment and look for a large-sensor pocketable
camera to complement their larger equipment. That's where a lot of
the misunderstanding comes from.
I agree with you to a certain point. I own a DSLR (Canon 350D) and lots of lenses and other gear. Nonetheless, I will buy the G1. I believe that it is a very good camera, and its larger size is due to the large sensor and, of course, to the presumably excellent EVF, which is lacking in the Oly vaporware. Even though future models may be even more compact without loss of features, the G1 will probably be a great success. For sure, it is a great concept.

--
Gabi

http://www.gabis-galleries.com/
 
Kudos to Dpreveiw for their very timely and informative preview of
the revolutionary G1 EVIL camera.
Ditto.
Surprisingly members in the other
4/3rd forum initially showed greater interest in the m4/3
developments and new products than those in this forum.
They are people who like to pay more, carry more and switch lenses to
get the benefit of potentially higher IQ. The G1 will mount their lenses
(if not focus all of them). Which is not generally the case for Panasonic
digicam owners who dominate this forum, so I'm not surprised.
If they had looked at the cutaways showing the new large EVF
Where?
In fact the G1 is actually slightly smaller than the
popular Canon S5 Superzoom which has only a 2.5 inch rotating LCD as
compared to 3 inch in G1 and sensor 6 times bigger.
I think 9 times bigger?
I note that the G1 body is 1 lb in weight same as E420 so appears
denser than other DSLRs. Is it possible that the G1 has a stronger
metal subframe and not all plastic?
It's possible but not very important IMHO. Panasonic cameras seem to be
built to hold together well, whatever materials used.

The E-420 seems to be densely packed, but of course the mirror box and
the pentamirror have to be full of air to work.
As noted in the preview Pany is especially situated to take advantage
of the new m4/3 format having no legacy of lenses to protect. At
first I thought the m4/3 format would be benefit primarily for the
wide angle to normal range or wide to moderate telephoto and not to
the long telephoto range for sports or wildlife photography. But
after hearing that the G1 Pany developed EVF system taken from their
pro video camcorders actually can autofocus very quickly and almost
in the dark and with lenses slower than F 5.6, I started to realize
that with this system the slow and less expensive lenses will no
longer be the major deterent they once were.
I agree! They have the opportunity to create affordable, comparably
lightweight birding lenses which should give great reach and work well
at least in good light and for sitting birds, maybe even BIF is the
tracking works well.
This will permit Pany
to develop a small 2x doubler for use with their 20 F1.7
I think lenses need to be fairly telecentric to work well with a general
teleconverter and the 20/1.7 probably isn't very telecentric. But for
telephotos, yes.
It seems reasonable that the G1 will be much faster and better yet more
accurate than other autofocus systems in use in low light.
I'm not sure. But it will focus at slower apertures than f/5.6, which affordable,
lightweight DSLRs tend not to.
Some wanted in body Image Stabization without realizing that the [E410]
already was reportedly too small to incorporate the same and also the
fact that in lens IS is essential for video unless you like to watch
the jiggles at high zoom ranges.
You are right!!! Good point... Hmmm... why didn't I think of that? That means
that I should stop hoping that Panasonic will bring out an EVIL with sensor IS
(which I want for more lens options and smaller, lighter, cheaper lens designs).
Sigh.
Others have brought into question the cost of the G1 or G2 and lens
comparing it to the E420 and E520 without taking into consideration
the G1 has an expensive swiveling back LCD and a new generation chip
much more powerful and higher resolution and dynamic range much
closer to the new future mini E3 in capability.
We have to see about the DR, but the E-510 had way too much read noise,
making it more DR-limited than a 4/3rds camera would have to be (giving

4/3rds an undeservedly bad reputation for DR), so there is a lot of room for improvement.
When Olympus showed their concept model of a m4/3 body many said this
is the shape Pany should have used without realizing that this likely
is just a copy cat of a model Pany already has in the works ready to
release soon after the G1.
That's quite possible.
Note the Olympus model sported the new Pany 20 1.7 lens
I didn't see any markings, it could be an Oly lens? The 20/1.7 only
exists as a mockup with plastic front lens so far.
and the fact their camera is yet to be developed and
that may take at least a year.
Yes, that was bad news. So an "Oly G1" with sensor IS is most likely farther
away still, if they are even planning one.
Pictures of this likely mini L1 from
Pany have probably already been displayed with a removable EVF.
I've only seen pictures which were made up by a blogger fantasising about
how a µ4/3 camera could look like.
Some forum participants have
admitted seeing and handling a new shape model but can't release the
information.
Aha...
Before long I would anticipate that Pany would
fit the FZ28 or similar lens with a smaller sensor into the G2 body
to compete with other superzoom models especially to make use of the
HD video capabilities of that body.
That seems a bit far-fetched to me.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
Thank you for this unusual deep analysis!
After Photokina it relly seems that Olympus can not scope with the
expectations regarding m4/3 at the moment and it is up to Panasonic
to really start this revolution. I too think that it was a wise
decision to not begin it with the smallest possible camera, but with
one that features more professional controls and attract the
attention of professionals too. The latter are the opinion makers,
will give the better feedback to Panasonic and simultanously will
positively influence the media on m4/3.
Had it in my hands at the Photokina. A ladies pro camera in the shape it has now. My hands are just too big for a grip like that. The knobs etc all too small. The shrinking DSLR shape is just wrong IMHO. To make it work you have to rethink ergonomics and compact size at the same time. The viewfinder etc was as good as an EVF ever can be, nothing to criticise there.

Olympus is just mimicking support for M4/3. Everyone on the booth plainly ignored that piece of brushed metal with the leather strip on it.

Ernst Dinkla
 
So it would be through a 2x or less converter that the 45-200 lens would be made "longer" for birding? That makes sense, and I assume from the above posts that this means loosing one or more stops of light?

Is there anything in the lens map that would help with macros? I'd like to be able to get a reasonably close shot of at least a flower...

Peter F.
 
I am interested but the lack of in-body IS is a big no-no. Just look how big is the tele compared to the G1 body. It defeats the idea of a smaller camera.

Other issue might be the menus: icons are small and different to read. There might also be an overabundance of choices, that are really not necessary in a photographer's camera.

Does it have weather seals? With so many electronics it might be very sensistive to wet and/or hot weather.

Apart from the innovative design what I am most interested into is the G1 new sensor. Next to improved resolution will it bring improved DR and high ISO, which are critical to 4/3 success?

I'll wait to see what Oly brings out, especially if it adds a VF and in-body stabilisation. Meanwhile I hope that the new G1 sensor will trickle down to Oly's entry level dSLR which are as small, but less expensive.

G2 might even be a better choice.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/
 
I am interested but the lack of in-body IS is a big no-no. Just look
how big is the tele compared to the G1 body. It defeats the idea of a
smaller camera.
The reason that the telephoto is big compared to the G1 body is because it's a telephoto, not because it has IS. The Canon 70-200 f/4IS weighs 760g and non-IS weighs 705g. The length and diameter of the two lenses are identical.

Bob
 
I note that the G1 body is 1 lb in weight same as E420 so appears
denser than other DSLRs. Is it possible that the G1 has a stronger
metal subframe and not all plastic?
It's possible but not very important IMHO. Panasonic cameras seem to be
built to hold together well, whatever materials used.
Basically, because there's no clattering 'machine-gun construction' with lots of inertia to be absorbed, the G1 doesn't need a strong strong sub-frame. In fact, a bit more flexible material (eg plastic) would make it more resistant against bending and fractures (if dropped).
Some wanted in body Image Stabization without realizing that the [E410]
already was reportedly too small to incorporate the same and also the
fact that in lens IS is essential for video unless you like to watch
the jiggles at high zoom ranges.
You are right!!! Good point... Hmmm... why didn't I think of that?
That means
that I should stop hoping that Panasonic will bring out an EVIL with
sensor IS
(which I want for more lens options and smaller, lighter, cheaper
lens designs).
Sigh.
No you shouldn't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEcJsksxsOo&feature=user

Skip to 2:35

The potential problem as I see it, could be the noise from the SSIS, but a dedicated mic for the back ground noise would offer a very effective noise cancellation. Not to mention, for motion pictures, 'stacking' the pics also offers a very effective software alternative for OIS. It actually works, but the downs side is the pictures have to be cropped somewhat, so you'll loose a bit of the WA.

AND not to forget, nobody says an SSIS body shouldn't be able to accept an OIS lens for the long end or filming... But it doesn't work the other way around, an Pany body won't be able to stabilize a fast prime, or ultraWA lens.
We have to see about the DR, but the E-510 had way too much read noise,
making it more DR-limited than a 4/3rds camera would have to be (giving
4/3rds an undeservedly bad reputation for DR), so there is a lot of
room for improvement.
That's what John S. calls "sloppy electronics"? Hop Pany does better this time...
When Olympus showed their concept model of a m4/3 body many said this
is the shape Pany should have used without realizing that this likely
is just a copy cat of a model Pany already has in the works ready to
release soon after the G1.
--

 
Shi Yali wrote:
The G1 is meant as a DSLR replacement for those who do not want to
upgrade to a DSLR for various reasons. It is not meant for those who
already have DSLR equipment and look for a large-sensor pocketable
camera to complement their larger equipment. That's where a lot of
the misunderstanding comes from.
The G1 will compete directly with the entry level DSLRs from Canon,
Nikon, Sony, etc.
Personally I really enjoy live view and shooting from waist level
with a fold out LCD, that makes the G1 very interesting for me.
--

I don't know how many people out there are like me, but I fully intend on selling my SLR and switching to the G1. I'm just waiting to see if it does indeed come in at or under $800 US dollars.

The G1 is not my ideal m43's body, but I love the concept of the system, so I want to dump all my old SLR stuff as soon as it comes out and get started on a new kit.
 
Thank you for your very qualified considerations. I'm hoping it helps some people at this forum to appreciate Micro Four Thirds better.

Olaf
 
So it would be through a 2x or less converter that the 45-200 lens
would be made "longer" for birding? That makes sense, and I assume
from the above posts that this means loosing one or more stops of
light?
No, it doesn't make sense since you'll lose 2 stops => f11 :(( That would only work on flamingos at the Equator at noon (even it the CDAF works decently). Pany wants to sell faster long FL lenses for the birders.
Is there anything in the lens map that would help with macros? I'd
like to be able to get a reasonably close shot of at least a flower...
No, not really, (unless the 14-140 has the same minimum focus distance at the long (30cm)) but I suppose they could come up with a macro tube. If they don't do it, a 3rd party option will be available I'm positive.

--

 
Maybe this interview with Panbasonic about the G/G1 will interest you all:
(fourthirdsphoto.com/G1/05.php)

You will have to copy the link without the brackets into your browser. For some reason that I do not understand this URL seems to be blocked by this site.

Sorry if someone else posted this already or if I did something that is not in accordance with the forum rules.
--
Gabi

http://www.gabis-galleries.com/
 
safaridon wrote:
[snip]
Some wanted in body Image Stabization without realizing that the E210
already was reportedly too small to incorporate the same and also the
fact that in lens IS is essential for video unless you like to watch
the jiggles at high zoom ranges. I don't know of any camcorder that
doesn't use in lens optical IS system as a result.
Why do you say that G1 is too small to support in-body image stabilization, and why do you think optical stabilization is required for video?

larsbc
 
You're comparing two lenses with very different focal length ranges. (And both in the Olympus "Standard" line, which involves more optical compromises than their "High Grade" and "Super High Grade.") The issue is whether the same lens with and without IS will be of significantly different size and weight. The Canon comparison shows that, at least for these lenses, the size of the lens without IS is exactly the same as the one with, and IS adds only about 10% to the weight. I like the idea of body-based IS myself, and this has been a major part of Olympus' claim to fame, so if they did not incorporate it into the design of the G1 then I suspect they had good technical reasons for that decision. (Canon and Nikon have both rejected body-based IS as being less effective then lens-based, but, arguably, they have a history of lens design that they may be unwilling to abandon for marketing reasons.)

Bob
Not true. My 40-150 is almost as small as the 14-42, and both look
much smaller on the E-410, than the kit lenses on the G1.

Am.

--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/
 
So it would be through a 2x or less converter that the 45-200 lens
would be made "longer" for birding? That makes sense, and I assume
from the above posts that this means loosing one or more stops of
light?
No, it doesn't make sense since you'll lose 2 stops => f11 :(( That
would only work on flamingos at the Equator at noon
Greg, that's slightly pessimistic IMHO.

Sunny sixteen recommends f/16, 1/100 ISO 100, or f/11, 1/800 ISO 400.

I've been shooting birds with the FZ5+c210 teleconverter at
432 x 1.9 = 821mm equiv. at f/3.3. ISO 80 IIRC, here in Sweden in the
afternoon. The c210 vignettes badly so I'd say the effective f-stop
(T-stop) is probably more like f/4.5. The OIS is only correcting half the
shake since it thinks the FL is 432mm. Yet I'm getting usable
shutter speeds. It's not camera shake that is the limiting factor
for the results, it's that the FZ5+tcon combo isn't too fantastic optically.
AF struggles too, but I use the focus lock button and OIS mode 1 to help
focus.

The redeeming feature is that the combo still fits in the pocket of one of
my jackets!

With more than two stops better ISO and one stop better OIS, I think
f/11 could give usable shutter speeds even here, in the summer.
Remains to see if they make a 2.0x and if it gives good results together
with the 45-200, and how the AF works.
Pany wants to sell faster long FL lenses for the birders.
Something like a 400/7.1 or 350/6.3 would be comparably
lightweight and affordable, I think.
Is there anything in the lens map that would help with macros? I'd
like to be able to get a reasonably close shot of at least a flower...
The 45-200 with an achromatic macro lens. Those of various brands
that we use on the FZ cameras are often originally made for DSLR lenses,
I believe.

Lack of mirror vibrations should make the G1 easier to use for macro
than DSLRs. Not to mention the vari-angle LCD.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top