dp0 vs fp L

[Tom Schum]

I went out this morning to Great Falls with a tripod and both cameras.

The fp L has a TTartisan 21mm F1.5 manual lens on it.

Both were set to F8. Color palettes are different, but is the fp L better?

Basically I made minimal adjustments to the dp0 image and spent time working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image.


fp L version, downsized to nearly match the pixel count of dp0 lo-res. 5.6mb download. Developed from DNG using SPP.


dp0 lo-res. 5.3mb download. Developed from X3F in SPP.

In my mind, the colors out of the fp L look better to me.

--
Tom Schum
"Beware of taking advice from anonymous wise men." Quote from Anon.

 

[Tom Schum]

This time it looks like the dp0 image is better.




fp L version, downsized to be nearly the same pixels as the dp0 Hi-Res. 19mb download.




dp0 Hi-Res. 21mb download.



--
Tom Schum
"Beware of taking advice from anonymous wise men." Quote from Anon.

 

[BjoernK]

Hi,

looks like you have heavy color casts in the corners of the fp L image. I have the same issues with my favorite manual lenses. You may correct this while shooting, by using the color shading correction in the fp L.

 

[Iain G Foulds]

… Tom: Appreciate your good comparisons. Thanks for such careful work.

… Would love to see a third SD14/15 image in there. Perhaps one day…

 

[Tom Schum]

Hi,

looks like you have heavy color casts in the corners of the fp L image. I have the same issues with my favorite manual lenses. You may correct this while shooting, by using the color shading correction in the fp L.

Yes I might have color casts. I just got the lens yesterday, and today's results seem to indicate good sharpness and focus.

It might turn out I need to do color cast corrections. Nice to know this capability is in the camera. It wasn't in the SD1.

On the other hand it might just be vignetting. I made changes to the colors in such a way that color shifts in vignetted areas would occur.

I'll be investigating this some more soon.

--
Tom Schum
"Beware of taking advice from anonymous wise men." Quote from Anon.

 

[paulsch]

I went out this morning to Great Falls with a tripod and both cameras.

The fp L has a TTartisan 21mm F1.5 manual lens on it.

Both were set to F8. Color palettes are different, but is the fp L better?

Basically I made minimal adjustments to the dp0 image and spent time working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image.


fp L version, downsized to nearly match the pixel count of dp0 lo-res. 5.6mb download. Developed from DNG using SPP.


dp0 lo-res. 5.3mb download. Developed from X3F in SPP.

In my mind, the colors out of the fp L look better to me.

Personally, I clearly prefer the dp0 rendering. IMHO it is the usual differentiators: the dp0 image has the more realistic appearance, more 3D appearance, particularly in the water and some parts of the rocks.

 

[Tom Schum]

Thanks for taking a look!

It would be nice to get a few more opinions from others.

 

[Iain G Foulds]

… Tom: Put is quite bit of time comparing the two examples. No great fan of the colour in either of them. Though, the FP seems to have less subtle hues. Again, would love to see a third SD14/15 image in there.

… But Paul has a good point. The FP is definitely a less dynamic, flatter image that pops less. I believe that has been the trend of the last 15 years of sensor “advancements”.

 

[Tom Schum]

… Tom: Put is quite bit of time comparing the two examples. No great fan of the colour in either of them. Though, the FP seems to have less subtle hues. Again, would love to see a third SD14/15 image in there.

… But Paul has a good point. The FP is definitely a less dynamic, flatter image that pops less. I believe that has been the trend of the last 15 years of sensor “advancements”.

Yes I think in the hi-res comparison the fp L had less in the way of subtle hue variations.

In the lo-res comparison I liked the fp L colors overall, a bit better than the dp0.

But it was a quick test, and I could have spent more time processing, and I don't have Lightroom and other stuff, so I could have done better on the fp L stuff.

I need to find a subject with a lot more colors and since it is not yet time for the foliage to pop out here in the Washington DC area, things are just kind of drab in nature.

There is a site nearby with a large mural on a building, and maybe I can get there and make another comparison.

Also, the lens I was using on my fp L is brand new. I had it only one day and wanted to test it out. Looks like it might have a little bit of coloration across the frame. I figured out how to correct this in the fp L (a great feature that previous Sigmas do not have).

Next time, the images should be nicer. If there is a next time, I'll post another comparison here.

Finally, having seen some well-processed images from Bayer cameras, even here in DPR contests, I am not sure I can agree with you about "less dynamic, flatter image that pops less."

Thanks again for taking a look!

 

[xpatUSA]

I went out this morning to Great Falls with a tripod and both cameras.

The fp L has a TTartisan 21mm F1.5 manual lens on it.

Both were set to F8. Color palettes are different, but is the fp L better?

Basically I made minimal adjustments to the dp0 image and spent time working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image.


fp L version, downsized to nearly match the pixel count of dp0 lo-res. 5.6mb download. Developed from DNG using SPP.


dp0 lo-res. 5.3mb download. Developed from X3F in SPP.

In my mind, the colors out of the fp L look better to me.

fp L: 260,027 colors

dp0 Q: 151,607 colors

So, are the L colors almost twice as "subtle" as the Q? Or did they come from all that time spent "working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image", meaning that the color comparison is more between the post-processing than it is between the cameras/lenses?

In the FastStone Viewer Histogram dialog there is a 'count the colors' button.

Or one could go here, depending on what "palette" means:

Color Palette From An Image - colordesigner.io

The Color Palette From Image is simple to use allows the user to upload an image of their choosing, and then generate a palette ofcolors that can be found on the uploaded image.

colordesigner.io

Definitely different ...

--
It's all in the numbers ...

 

[Abbazz]

… Would love to see a third SD14/15 image in there. Perhaps one day…

Here are two images taken (X3F raw) this morning with the same lens, the first one with my sd Quattro H and the other one with my SD14:




sd Quattro H




SD14

If you want to play with them, here are links to the raw files:

http://www.lallement.com/images/SDIM1280.X3F

http://www.lallement.com/images/SDIM8279.X3F

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[Iain G Foulds]

… Would love to see a third SD14/15 image in there. Perhaps one day…

Here are two images taken (X3F raw) this morning with the same lens, the first one with my sd Quattro H and the other one with my SD14:


sd Quattro H


SD14

If you want to play with them, here are links to the raw files:

http://www.lallement.com/images/SDIM1280.X3F

http://www.lallement.com/images/SDIM8279.X3F

Cheers!

Abbazz

… Abbazz. Very much appreciate that. Really examined the two.

… I would subtly cool off the temperature of the SD14, to eliminate the slight green cast, but definitely prefer the SD14 image. The colours are more authentic, and the image works better as an integrated whole.

… The middle ground greenery is a good example. The Quattro greens are basically all the same dark green. And, the sky of the Quattro image is a single shade of a somewhat inauthentic blue. Also, in the Quattro there is clearly a division between the warm and cool zones of the image. It does not work as well as a single image.

--
... “Photographers have been gaslighted by camera companies to obsess about every leaf on the trees, and have lost sight of the forest.” IGF

 

[xpatUSA]

SD14: 228,558

sd Q H:338,482

 

[xpatUSA]

I went out this morning to Great Falls with a tripod and both cameras.

The fp L has a TTartisan 21mm F1.5 manual lens on it.

Both were set to F8. Color palettes are different, but is the fp L better?

Basically I made minimal adjustments to the dp0 image and spent time working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image.


fp L version, downsized to nearly match the pixel count of dp0 lo-res. 5.6mb download. Developed from DNG using SPP.


dp0 lo-res. 5.3mb download. Developed from X3F in SPP.

In my mind, the colors out of the fp L look better to me.

fp L: 260,027 colors

dp0 Q: 151,607 colors

So, are the L colors almost twice as "subtle" as the Q? Or did they come from all that time spent "working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image", meaning that the color comparison is more between the post-processing than it is between the cameras/lenses?

In the FastStone Viewer Histogram dialog there is a 'count the colors' button.

Or one could go here, depending on what "palette" means:

https://colordesigner.io/color-palette-from-image



Definitely different.

fp L:



dp0 Q:



Hues extracted at 100% saturation from HSV/HSB color model.

The hue banding in the dp0 Q is none too subtle ...

--
It's all in the numbers ...

 

[DavidWright2010]

… Would love to see a third SD14/15 image in there. Perhaps one day…

Here are two images taken (X3F raw) this morning with the same lens, the first one with my sd Quattro H and the other one with my SD14:


sd Quattro H


SD14

If you want to play with them, here are links to the raw files:

http://www.lallement.com/images/SDIM1280.X3F

http://www.lallement.com/images/SDIM8279.X3F

Cheers!

Abbazz

Thanks for this comparison, and showing full-size images. Make me wish I'd gotten the Quattro H (LHS, in case it's not obvious):



David

 

[Tom Schum]

Definitely different color responses.

dp0 set to custom white balance using ExpoDisc.

fp L set to custom white balance using ExpoDisc, Lens optics (compensation for coloration across the frame) set for the TTartisan 21mm F1.5 at F5.6.




dp0 Lo-res, from SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders at default.




fp L Lo-res equiv, from DNG with SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders to taste.




fp L Lo-res equiv, from DNG with SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders to default.



--
Tom Schum
"Beware of taking advice from anonymous wise men." Quote from Anon.

 

[paulsch]

I went out this morning to Great Falls with a tripod and both cameras.

The fp L has a TTartisan 21mm F1.5 manual lens on it.

Both were set to F8. Color palettes are different, but is the fp L better?

Basically I made minimal adjustments to the dp0 image and spent time working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image.


fp L version, downsized to nearly match the pixel count of dp0 lo-res. 5.6mb download. Developed from DNG using SPP.


dp0 lo-res. 5.3mb download. Developed from X3F in SPP.

In my mind, the colors out of the fp L look better to me.

fp L: 260,027 colors

dp0 Q: 151,607 colors

So, are the L colors almost twice as "subtle" as the Q? Or did they come from all that time spent "working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image", meaning that the color comparison is more between the post-processing than it is between the cameras/lenses?

In the FastStone Viewer Histogram dialog there is a 'count the colors' button.

Or one could go here, depending on what "palette" means:

https://colordesigner.io/color-palette-from-image



Definitely different ...

I think that resizing the image will change the color palette, since resizing requires interpolation, and the resized image will likely be completely new pixel map.

So the number of colors is probably not a very good indicator for color response IMHO.

 

[xpatUSA]

Definitely different color responses.

dp0 set to custom white balance using ExpoDisc.

fp L set to custom white balance using ExpoDisc, Lens optics (compensation for coloration across the frame) set for the TTartisan 21mm F1.5 at F5.6.


dp0 Lo-res, from SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders at default.


fp L Lo-res equiv, from DNG with SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders to taste.


fp L Lo-res equiv, from DNG with SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders to default.

2nd and 3rd images both have the same caption but different color?



--
It's all in the numbers ...

 

[Iain G Foulds]

Definitely different color responses.

dp0 set to custom white balance using ExpoDisc.

fp L set to custom white balance using ExpoDisc, Lens optics (compensation for coloration across the frame) set for the TTartisan 21mm F1.5 at F5.6.


dp0 Lo-res, from SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders at default.


fp L Lo-res equiv, from DNG with SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders to taste.


fp L Lo-res equiv, from DNG with SPP set to min noise suppression and crunchy, other sliders to default.

… Tom: Again, thanks for sharing good work.

… The simplistic colours are irrelevant. It is the sky that matters. The transition of the Quattro is much, much more natural and even. The FP is more simplistic colours, very clumsy… almost blocked out.

… A small wager that the SD14/15 would be better, more subtle and authentic than both. A camera company going backwards… just like all the rest.

--
... “Photographers have been gaslighted by camera companies to obsess about every leaf on the trees, and have lost sight of the forest.” IGF

 

[xpatUSA]

I went out this morning to Great Falls with a tripod and both cameras.

The fp L has a TTartisan 21mm F1.5 manual lens on it.

Both were set to F8. Color palettes are different, but is the fp L better?

Basically I made minimal adjustments to the dp0 image and spent time working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image.


fp L version, downsized to nearly match the pixel count of dp0 lo-res. 5.6mb download. Developed from DNG using SPP.


dp0 lo-res. 5.3mb download. Developed from X3F in SPP.

In my mind, the colors out of the fp L look better to me.

fp L: 260,027 colors

dp0 Q: 151,607 colors

So, are the L colors almost twice as "subtle" as the Q? Or did they come from all that time spent "working the fp L image to get it close to the color balance of the dp0 image", meaning that the color comparison is more between the post-processing than it is between the cameras/lenses?

In the FastStone Viewer Histogram dialog there is a 'count the colors' button.

Or one could go here, depending on what "palette" means:

https://colordesigner.io/color-palette-from-image



Definitely different ...

I think that resizing the image will change the color palette, since resizing requires interpolation, and the resized image will likely be completely new pixel map.

So the number of colors is probably not a very good indicator for color response IMHO.

Agreed. And who knows what the link means by "color palette", or Tom, or your good self for that matter.

We could even say that a screen color palette is red, green and blue - three colors ... ;-)

--
It's all in the numbers ...