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DP-1: A negative view

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Villebon said:
I've been considering the DP-1 and been reading favorables comments
about it. Then out of the blue comes negative comments from someone
who has handled two DP1.

For all I know his comments may be legitimate. What's your take on this?

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00OjI8
Click to expand...
Quote: "Aperture needs to be set with the L-R buttons at the rear of the camera, but they are not easily accessible with the same hand when the camera is held in right hand."

What a stupid comment!...I felt like replying "so dont hold it in your right hand!".

Obviously the DP1 like most cameras is designed to be easiest to use if you are right handed, where you hold the camera with your left hand and make most or all adjustments with your right hand so perhaps its not so supprising when someone who is left handed finds the control layout a tad inconvenient!
He has a bee in his bonnet over nothing IMO.
--
DSG
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--
http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/
 
I think his points are quite stupid. To me the ergonomics of the DP1 are good (but not perfect, i miss having a wheel to change shutter and/or aperture). The fact that you have to enter the menu to change WB and ISO is also quite annoying, but not a major problem.

Yes, the camera is quite slow, but i dont think it's as bad as he makes it sound. Users demanding a speed demon should however look somewhere else.

However, the fact that he claims that the DP1 and the GRD are even comparable on high ISO is just plain silly. I do not own a GRD, but a GX100 that has similar noise caracteristics as the GRD, and the DP1 is just leaps and bounds beyond it. The files do however look quite bad (and noisy) while you watch them on the monitor, so his observation makes sense.

Once you load up a ISO 800 file from the DP1 in Sigma Photo Pro, it does however look really really good, and is well more than usable (even sell-able!). Even the ISO 400-files from the GX100 is what i would call unusable.

I've now had my DP1 for three days, and i like it more now than i did after the first 24 hours (in case you've missed it, i posted a "first impressions of the DP1" on my blog a couple of days ago: http://saidkarlsson.com/blog/?page_id=177 )

I do however still think that the camera is pretty hard to use, but i am sure that it once i get to know it better, it will be my closest gadget for a long time ahead. I've been carrying my Eos 5D with me all the time for more than 2 years, my back is so happy that i can finally go with something lighter!

I will post a more comprehensive text about my second impressions of the camera on my blog within a day or two.
 
I think the review points up one thing clearly: the DP1 is meant to be used as a manual focus camera. If that's not what you want, the DP1 is not for you.

As for the complaint about RAW writing speeds, from what I have been able to see in dpreveiw.com testing of other cameras, 3 seconds to write a RAW file is par for the course. (Though, oddly, dpreviews don't always cover shot-to-shot times, so comparisons are not as easy to come by as expected.)
 
Different people work differently and expect different things from a camera. No one camera is going to appeal to everyone. I personally find any camera designed for use by a right handed person (and they all are today) to be ergonomically inferior since I am left handed.

I even find all DSLR's to be lacking in ergonomics simply because I grew up operating the focus and aperture ring with my left hand and my shutter with my right. I could focus and set aperture faster manually than most automatic cameras. I find working with a DSLR "dual dial" aperture/shutter speed on the right a pain.

So there are different strokes for different folks. It was clear that he was disappointed in the DP1 and it was not what he was disappointed since it was not what he had expected.

I am sure some of the "red meat" Sigma loyalist are going trash him, but in reality the DP1 was just not his cup of tea.

--
Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt

 
I think the DP1 is going to be a love it hate it camera. It has a specific target in mind and for those looking to repace a standard 3 or 4 X P&S it is going to be viewed as limited, for those who would like a camera with more traditional controls, Digitilux 2 type , camera it will be too small with a lack of traditional controls.

For those that want supior IQ in a small package they'll LOVE it even if it will take getting used to.

I'm holding judgement. I was looking to replace my G5 as my walk around and though the DP1 would be perfect. I shoot mostly at 35mm equivilent so the 28mm is not that much wider but I will miss the articulating LCD, view finder for bright light and more dedicated manual controls.

So I'm lucky the funds are not easily available right now, I can wait till there is stock for me to get a feel for it, unfortunatly finding a dealer in my area that carries Simga cameras is difficult. But it will be a good excuse to hop a train to NYC and visit B&H and get some spring candids shots in the city 8^)

If it doesn't work out I'll most likly hold on to the G5 for a while the G9 and GRD look good but not enough to give up the aticulating LCD. It's ammazing how much I use what a thought was a gimmick it really is great for waist level and odd angle shots.
Rich
 
The DP1 is the slowest camera of the last 10 years?
Thats hillarious.

The truth is: it is quite fast!

What the reviewer writes about the response time is true only if you have the 2sec. selftimer switched on. In this case it behaves exactly as desribed. And I am pretty sure that was the case when he tried it.

In normal AF mode, it focuses very quickly, and releases almost instantly whan you press the button. Repeatedly and very reliable.

He writes at the button that he didn´t read the manual. Granted. But publishing such a "review" based on such errors is .... no, I better don´t write this here ;)

--
http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt



http://wohntattoos.de
 
Anyone who has taken the time to read any of the brochures or pre-release written material will note that what Truman writes is a constant underlying theme:

This is a camera for photographers, but consider what you need it for before buying. This seems not to be the camera for this guy.

What I never understand though is why these types translate their own experience and needs into a general damnation that should apply to everyone.

I do not like BMWs, but I have never been on a forum spouting off about that. And I have driven a lot of them.
Truman Prevatt said:
Different people work differently and expect different things from a
camera. No one camera is going to appeal to everyone. I personally
find any camera designed for use by a right handed person (and they
all are today) to be ergonomically inferior since I am left handed.

I even find all DSLR's to be lacking in ergonomics simply because I
grew up operating the focus and aperture ring with my left hand and
my shutter with my right. I could focus and set aperture faster
manually than most automatic cameras. I find working with a DSLR
"dual dial" aperture/shutter speed on the right a pain.

So there are different strokes for different folks. It was clear that
he was disappointed in the DP1 and it was not what he was
disappointed since it was not what he had expected.

I am sure some of the "red meat" Sigma loyalist are going trash him,
but in reality the DP1 was just not his cup of tea.

--
Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt

Click to expand...
--
Laurence

My idea of good company is the fellowship of clever, well-informed people, who have a great deal of conversation and liberality of ideas.

Jane Austen

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com
 
Guenter Borgemeister said:
The DP1 is the slowest camera of the last 10 years?
Thats hillarious.
Click to expand...
I think he exagerated a lot here but the fact is that the DP1 is quite slow and unresponsive and even people who wrote favorable reviews have pointed this out.

As fast as the manual focus works as slow is everything else, especially the menus and changing A/S settings.

I as he did really wanted to like the DP1 but was disapointed as it seems "unfinished" so as if Sigma just thought about how to fit the Foveon sensor in a small package but did not spend any thought on the handling and controls.

maybe Sigma realized this and this is why they hinted at the possible DP2 and DP3 to be released soon. I think most of the current complaints can be fixed with a firmware update.

--
http://ricoh-gr-diary.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cristiansorega
 
Laurence Matson said:
What I never understand though is why these types translate their own
experience and needs into a general damnation that should apply to
everyone.
Click to expand...
What I do not understand is that apparently only users who like the DP1 "understand" the camera and can speak for the general masses. But users who "dare" to criticise it are either not experienced enough, tried a pre-production unit, do not understand the camera etc.

But the points that he mentiones are the same points I mentioned, the same points Nick mentioned in the "Tapegate" affair here and some other people mentioned. The slow operation of the camera and bad unintuitive controls.

Everyone posts his own opinions and is allowed to do so, you can either agree or disagree. A own opinion is not a general damnation of the camera and only means taht people who are thinking of buying a DP1 should maybe first try it out to see if it works for them.

--
http://ricoh-gr-diary.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cristiansorega
 
VladimirV said:
the fact is that the DP1 is
quite slow and unresponsive and even people who wrote favorable
reviews have pointed this out.
Click to expand...
I don´t know about other people, but I actually have a DP1 and tell you it is pretty fast. I will grab my old Handycam later and produce a proofvideo, so you can judge that for yourself.
VladimirV said:
As fast as the manual focus works as slow is everything else,
especially the menus and changing A/S settings.
Click to expand...
That is also not true, once I figured out how to switch the A/S settings, it works as fast as I can switch. Not being a manual reader myself, it took me a while to figure out how this works though ;)

Wait for the video, I´ll show you.

--
http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt



http://wohntattoos.de
 
Hi Laurence

I'm not going to take sides on this one as you managed to distract me so much as Focus that I can't actually remember how the camera handles!

I will content myself with a general potshot at camera manufacturers in general: Why, after designing thousands of different models, haven't you worked out how to do ergonomics properly! See footnote..

However, I can't resist one little jibe: You can't really excuse any design flaws by saying over and over "this is a camera for photographers". A camera for photographers would not have ergonomic issues, have some features so poorly implemented that you have to advise people to ignore them and would not be slow to operate.

I'm not saying the DP1 suffers from any of the above; I'll leave it to people who are using the camera to comment. But I sincerely hope it is better than the criticisms I've read (which seem similar to criticisms of the SLRs). Having a large, high quality sensor is a start, not the be all and end all. The rest of the camera needs to be decently designed as well.

Footnote:

Try and build controls that operate as directly as possible eg an aperture ring on the lens it superior to a wheel and button, a mechanical focusing or zoom ring is superior to levers and buttons.

Try and build cameras with one function per control - modal switches are a nightmare when you are under pressure

Try and mark dials and switches with settings rather than having to look at a dim or tiddly LCD to find settings.

Compacts need decent, integrated viewfinders

In other words, build cameras like you did in 1980!
Laurence Matson said:
This is a camera for photographers, but consider what you need it for
before buying. This seems not to be the camera for this guy.

What I never understand though is why these types translate their own
experience and needs into a general damnation that should apply to
everyone.

I do not like BMWs, but I have never been on a forum spouting off
about that. And I have driven a lot of them.
Truman Prevatt said:
Different people work differently and expect different things from a
camera. No one camera is going to appeal to everyone. I personally
find any camera designed for use by a right handed person (and they
all are today) to be ergonomically inferior since I am left handed.

I even find all DSLR's to be lacking in ergonomics simply because I
grew up operating the focus and aperture ring with my left hand and
my shutter with my right. I could focus and set aperture faster
manually than most automatic cameras. I find working with a DSLR
"dual dial" aperture/shutter speed on the right a pain.

So there are different strokes for different folks. It was clear that
he was disappointed in the DP1 and it was not what he was
disappointed since it was not what he had expected.

I am sure some of the "red meat" Sigma loyalist are going trash him,
but in reality the DP1 was just not his cup of tea.

--
Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt

Click to expand...
--
Laurence

My idea of good company is the fellowship of clever, well-informed
people, who have a great deal of conversation and liberality of ideas.

Jane Austen

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com
Click to expand...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm
 
Truman Prevatt said:
I even find all DSLR's to be lacking in ergonomics simply because I
grew up operating the focus and aperture ring with my left hand and
my shutter with my right. I could focus and set aperture faster
manually than most automatic cameras. I find working with a DSLR
"dual dial" aperture/shutter speed on the right a pain.
Click to expand...
I miss those low tech configurations. Not only could you quickly setup the shot but you could try different settings quickly. Something I find to be a pain with the modern breed of DSLR.
 
-not everybody has to like every camera

-outside of China and some other countries, everybody may express his opinion on the web and it is neither worse nor better to express a negative opinion than a positive one

-given the special nature of the DP1, it is a good advise he gives saying that people should try it out prior to buying.

I wonder why everybody is becoming so nervous in such cases.

O.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ollivr/
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/ollivr/popular-interesting/
 
Given most folks do talk about manual focusing and the focusing has to be done on an LCD screen, what sort of focusing aids does the DP1 have? I'm not a real fan of the trends away for good optical focusing tools, e.g. split image, etc.

Does the DP1 have sufficient manual focusing aids to get sharp focus using the LCD?

Truman
ammca66564 said:
I think the review points up one thing clearly: the DP1 is meant to
be used as a manual focus camera. If that's not what you want, the
DP1 is not for you.

As for the complaint about RAW writing speeds, from what I have been
able to see in dpreveiw.com testing of other cameras, 3 seconds to
write a RAW file is par for the course. (Though, oddly, dpreviews
don't always cover shot-to-shot times, so comparisons are not as easy
to come by as expected.)
Click to expand...
--
Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt

 
Alf, lefties like me have to accept the fact that we live in a right-handed world. If you gave me a camera made for left handed shooters I wouldn't want to use it because I've adapted over the years. I use my computer mouse with my right hand because the first mouse I had was form-fitted for the right hand. I don't even think of cameras being left or right handed (although they are right-handed), using one mostly with my right hand is second nature to me.
--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

 
no need to say any more - the defence rests your honour.
--
Shoot the Light fantastic
 
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