DOF preview on D7200

[Mako2011]

Probably not. If the view darkens when using the viewfinder then you know that its working, sort of. The problem is that Nikon's DSLRs don't let you see the widest apertures, I think that they're limited to about f/2.8. If you carefully place objects at differepnt distances then when you compare the DOF for very wide and very small apertures you should see differences when you look through the viewfinder, but they may need to be in fairly bright light when you use very small apertures.

Indeed the aperture in the viewfinder seems to be locked on f4.0 (background a little blurry). Apertures between 1.8 and 4.0 don't seem to make any differences.

Aperture above 4.0 seem to make a difference when pressing Pv.

Thanks for the correction. Even though I probably had read somewhere that it was "f/4", I must have pulled "f/2.8" out of a corner of my mind that knew about Canon's f/2.8 AF sensors that are used by some of their DSLRs.

It _seems_ to be f4.0 to my poor eyes. Perhaps it is in fact f2.8. However for sure it is not f1.8.

Are you sure? Look through the front of the lens while pressing the Pv button (in aperture mode...may have to have a light shining in). You might be surprised. The physical change from f1.8 to f2.8 is small...but can be seen when looking into the front of the lens

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

 

[Mako2011]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background

What exposure mode are you in? Try it in Aperture or manual exposure priority.

I am in Aperture mode.

Above f4.0, it seems that the Pv button gives the correct result (background increasingly in focus).

Below f4.0, the Pv button doesn't have any effect on focus (background always has the same focus).

Because when you are looking through the viewfinder (Pv button not pressed) you are seeing it with the aperture wide open...f1.8 in this case. You won't notice much change (in light and DoF unless you look real close) when pressing the Pv button till about, f4 in this case.

Umm not really. When I am not pressing the Pv button, I see the f4.0 equivalent, even at f1.8 or f8.0.

The difference can be almost unnoticeable when looking through the viewfinder (in some cases)...look through the front of the lens to see if the aperture size is really changing.

 

[BirgerH]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

• If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background
• If I am at f8.0, I see the result of f8.0 (background) in focus

Is that really the intented behavior ?

No - and that's not how it is. Actually you would see the f:1.8 as f:1.8 - if it has not been for the Viewfinder magnification. Dof is about aperture and subject magnification - and the viewfinder has a role to play in he latter.

The intended behavior of the Fv button is to give an approximated feeling of the Dof at a given aperture.

Strange, because another guy in this topic, answered that indeed smallest DoF is locked on somewhere around 2.8 and 4 on Nikon. I can confirm that this is the behavior I am seeing.

Yes. Saw it - that's not so. Theres no "extra aperture in front of the viewfinder" except from the viewfinder magnification. And that will impact all apertures equally.

Yes, you are. But unfortunately, Nikon changed the procedure to get "real time exposure" - and with that "real time view" on the D7100/D7200 in compare to the one I know - the D7000.

Someone else must bring ind here the right procedures - or you might find it in the manual.

I have looked in the manual, but couldn't find a way to change the behavior. Anyone can point me to the right direction ?

If not - I'll use a couple of hours to study the manual (I know where to search) - and be back But actually, I'm at work now - and some work might turn up - so be patient.

Super thanks !

BirgerH.

 

[SaintGermain]

Probably not. If the view darkens when using the viewfinder then you know that its working, sort of. The problem is that Nikon's DSLRs don't let you see the widest apertures, I think that they're limited to about f/2.8. If you carefully place objects at differepnt distances then when you compare the DOF for very wide and very small apertures you should see differences when you look through the viewfinder, but they may need to be in fairly bright light when you use very small apertures.

Indeed the aperture in the viewfinder seems to be locked on f4.0 (background a little blurry). Apertures between 1.8 and 4.0 don't seem to make any differences.

Aperture above 4.0 seem to make a difference when pressing Pv.

Thanks for the correction. Even though I probably had read somewhere that it was "f/4", I must have pulled "f/2.8" out of a corner of my mind that knew about Canon's f/2.8 AF sensors that are used by some of their DSLRs.

I'm sorry, photoeddi - but Pv will have nothing to do with the AF-sensors (which actually would have been f:5.6, then).

Youl will see, what comes through the lens - not what hits the AF-sensors

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

 

[SaintGermain]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background

What exposure mode are you in? Try it in Aperture or manual exposure priority.

I am in Aperture mode.

Above f4.0, it seems that the Pv button gives the correct result (background increasingly in focus).

Below f4.0, the Pv button doesn't have any effect on focus (background always has the same focus).

Because when you are looking through the viewfinder (Pv button not pressed) you are seeing it with the aperture wide open...f1.8 in this case. You won't notice much change (in light and DoF unless you look real close) when pressing the Pv button till about, f4 in this case.

Umm not really. When I am not pressing the Pv button, I see the f4.0 equivalent, even at f1.8 or f8.0.

The difference can be almost unnoticeable when looking through the viewfinder (in some cases)...look through the front of the lens to see if the aperture size is really changing.

Aperture size is changing when I look at the front of the lens. However I don't see any results when looking that the viewfinder.

Pictures taken at f1.8 and f4.0 are _really_ different (strong blurry background at f1.8). I have no problem at all seing the difference with the Live view. Impossible to see the difference with the viewfinder.

 

[Mako2011]

Probably not. If the view darkens when using the viewfinder then you know that its working, sort of. The problem is that Nikon's DSLRs don't let you see the widest apertures, I think that they're limited to about f/2.8. If you carefully place objects at differepnt distances then when you compare the DOF for very wide and very small apertures you should see differences when you look through the viewfinder, but they may need to be in fairly bright light when you use very small apertures.

Indeed the aperture in the viewfinder seems to be locked on f4.0 (background a little blurry). Apertures between 1.8 and 4.0 don't seem to make any differences.

Aperture above 4.0 seem to make a difference when pressing Pv.

Thanks for the correction. Even though I probably had read somewhere that it was "f/4", I must have pulled "f/2.8" out of a corner of my mind that knew about Canon's f/2.8 AF sensors that are used by some of their DSLRs.

I'm sorry, photoeddi - but Pv will have nothing to do with the AF-sensors (which actually would have been f:5.6, then).

Youl will see, what comes through the lens - not what hits the AF-sensors

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

 

[BirgerH]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background

What exposure mode are you in? Try it in Aperture or manual exposure priority.

I am in Aperture mode.

Above f4.0, it seems that the Pv button gives the correct result (background increasingly in focus).

Below f4.0, the Pv button doesn't have any effect on focus (background always has the same focus).

Because when you are looking through the viewfinder (Pv button not pressed) you are seeing it with the aperture wide open...f1.8 in this case. You won't notice much change (in light and DoF unless you look real close) when pressing the Pv button till about, f4 in this case.

Umm not really. When I am not pressing the Pv button, I see the f4.0 equivalent, even at f1.8 or f8.0.

The difference can be almost unnoticeable when looking through the viewfinder (in some cases)...look through the front of the lens to see if the aperture size is really changing.

Aperture size is changing when I look at the front of the lens. However I don't see any results when looking that the viewfinder.

Pictures taken at f1.8 and f4.0 are _really_ different (strong blurry background at f1.8). I have no problem at all seing the difference with the Live view. Impossible to see the difference with the viewfinder.

Differences seen through the viewfinder is far less than in the image because of the viewfinder magnification - .

BirgerH.

 

[Mako2011]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background

What exposure mode are you in? Try it in Aperture or manual exposure priority.

I am in Aperture mode.

Above f4.0, it seems that the Pv button gives the correct result (background increasingly in focus).

Below f4.0, the Pv button doesn't have any effect on focus (background always has the same focus).

Because when you are looking through the viewfinder (Pv button not pressed) you are seeing it with the aperture wide open...f1.8 in this case. You won't notice much change (in light and DoF unless you look real close) when pressing the Pv button till about, f4 in this case.

Umm not really. When I am not pressing the Pv button, I see the f4.0 equivalent, even at f1.8 or f8.0.

The difference can be almost unnoticeable when looking through the viewfinder (in some cases)...look through the front of the lens to see if the aperture size is really changing.

Aperture size is changing when I look at the front of the lens.

Then we know the camera/lens is not broke and working right.

However I don't see any results when looking that the viewfinder.

That can be normal depending on focus point, subject distance, etc.

Pictures taken at f1.8 and f4.0 are _really_ different (strong blurry background at f1.8). I have no problem at all seing the difference with the Live view. Impossible to see the difference with the viewfinder.

It's hard to see/notice, sometimes, f1.8 to f4. Much easier with an FX body and the bigger viewfinder.

 

[SaintGermain]

Probably not. If the view darkens when using the viewfinder then you know that its working, sort of. The problem is that Nikon's DSLRs don't let you see the widest apertures, I think that they're limited to about f/2.8. If you carefully place objects at differepnt distances then when you compare the DOF for very wide and very small apertures you should see differences when you look through the viewfinder, but they may need to be in fairly bright light when you use very small apertures.

Indeed the aperture in the viewfinder seems to be locked on f4.0 (background a little blurry). Apertures between 1.8 and 4.0 don't seem to make any differences.

Aperture above 4.0 seem to make a difference when pressing Pv.

Thanks for the correction. Even though I probably had read somewhere that it was "f/4", I must have pulled "f/2.8" out of a corner of my mind that knew about Canon's f/2.8 AF sensors that are used by some of their DSLRs.

I'm sorry, photoeddi - but Pv will have nothing to do with the AF-sensors (which actually would have been f:5.6, then).

Youl will see, what comes through the lens - not what hits the AF-sensors

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

No the apertude blades are working. But if it is normal, it's normal.

It seems that in order to check aperture effects between f1.8 and f4.0, I have to use the Live view.

Thanks

 

[SaintGermain]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background

What exposure mode are you in? Try it in Aperture or manual exposure priority.

I am in Aperture mode.

Above f4.0, it seems that the Pv button gives the correct result (background increasingly in focus).

Below f4.0, the Pv button doesn't have any effect on focus (background always has the same focus).

Because when you are looking through the viewfinder (Pv button not pressed) you are seeing it with the aperture wide open...f1.8 in this case. You won't notice much change (in light and DoF unless you look real close) when pressing the Pv button till about, f4 in this case.

Umm not really. When I am not pressing the Pv button, I see the f4.0 equivalent, even at f1.8 or f8.0.

The difference can be almost unnoticeable when looking through the viewfinder (in some cases)...look through the front of the lens to see if the aperture size is really changing.

Aperture size is changing when I look at the front of the lens. However I don't see any results when looking that the viewfinder.

Pictures taken at f1.8 and f4.0 are _really_ different (strong blurry background at f1.8). I have no problem at all seing the difference with the Live view. Impossible to see the difference with the viewfinder.

Differences seen through the viewfinder is far less than in the image because of the viewfinder magnification - .

Ok I believe you.

However the result is that the viewfinder and Pv button are mostly useless for aperture between 1.8 and 4.0. I'll have to go in and out of Live view to check the results.

 

[SaintGermain]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background

What exposure mode are you in? Try it in Aperture or manual exposure priority.

I am in Aperture mode.

Above f4.0, it seems that the Pv button gives the correct result (background increasingly in focus).

Below f4.0, the Pv button doesn't have any effect on focus (background always has the same focus).

Because when you are looking through the viewfinder (Pv button not pressed) you are seeing it with the aperture wide open...f1.8 in this case. You won't notice much change (in light and DoF unless you look real close) when pressing the Pv button till about, f4 in this case.

Umm not really. When I am not pressing the Pv button, I see the f4.0 equivalent, even at f1.8 or f8.0.

The difference can be almost unnoticeable when looking through the viewfinder (in some cases)...look through the front of the lens to see if the aperture size is really changing.

Aperture size is changing when I look at the front of the lens.

Then we know the camera/lens is not broke and working right.

However I don't see any results when looking that the viewfinder.

That can be normal depending on focus point, subject distance, etc.

Pictures taken at f1.8 and f4.0 are _really_ different (strong blurry background at f1.8). I have no problem at all seing the difference with the Live view. Impossible to see the difference with the viewfinder.

It's hard to see/notice, sometimes, f1.8 to f4. Much easier with an FX body and the bigger viewfinder.

Can someone with a FX body can test with a close object at f1.8, and tell us if they see a difference between the view offered by the viewfinder with Pv pressed, and the image taken ?

Thanks !

 

[photoreddi]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

• If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background
• If I am at f8.0, I see the result of f8.0 (background) in focus

Is that really the intented behavior ?

No - and that's not how it is. Actually you would see the f:1.8 as f:1.8 - if it has not been for the Viewfinder magnification. Dof is about aperture and subject magnification - and the viewfinder has a role to play in he latter.

The intended behavior of the Fv button is to give an approximated feeling of the Dof at a given aperture.

Strange, because another guy in this topic, answered that indeed smallest DoF is locked on somewhere around 2.8 and 4 on Nikon. I can confirm that this is the behavior I am seeing.

Yes. Saw it - that's not so. Theres no "extra aperture in front of the viewfinder" except from the viewfinder magnification. And that will impact all apertures equally.

I believe that you're mistaken, but it could be me instead. If I recall correctly, this effect was described by Marianne Oelund and it had to do with the differences between the viewing screens used by SLRs and DSLRs, the latter using screens optimized for brightness, not for focusing. I haven't yet found what I think that she wrote but I found a description of the DOF effect in a 2 year old forum reply by Rich42 (see below). Mike Johnston (writing on Lu-La) touched on the screens but didn't get into how it might affect DOF :

...

Viewing screen, or just “screen”: This is the piece of plastic between an SLR’s mirror-box and prism, on which the lens’s aerial image is cast. Also sometimes referred to as ground glass, since that’s what screens used to be made of (and still are, on some view cameras). Think of a slide projector. When the pprojected image is in the air, you can’t see it; but when it hits the projection screen and reflects back at you, then you can see it. If the slide projection screen were semi-transparent, then you could get behind it instead of in front of it and still see the image through it. This is what a camera’s viewing screen does. The viewing screen is where the camera maker puts things like focusing aids (split-image circles and microprism collars, if you’re old enough to remember such things), grid lines, and the little marks that show you what the camera is autofocusing on. Better cameras may have “interchangeable screens,” meaning that you can take out the one with the split-image circle on it and put in one that has grid-lines on it, or whatever.

...

Focusing “snap”, a.k.a. ground-glass coarseness: this not only can’t be measured objectively, it’s also usually not remarked upon in camera tests. Rather, it’s assumed that the brighter the screen is, the easier it is to focus. This is sometimes, but not always, true. More about this later.

...

Similarly, “focusing snap” and viewfinder brightness don’t exactly go hand in hand. The super-bright screens are essentially bundles of very small fiberoptic cables, sliced crosswise, or miniature fresnel (flattened) simple lenses. While they transmit a ton of light, they can be very difficult to focus on. Everything looks pretty sharp; it’s not very obvious what’s in focus and what’s not. (The effect is worse with wide-angle lenses, which have more depth-of-field.) Old-fashioned ground-glass screens had better focusing snap the coarser the grind (surface texture) was. But, the coarser the surface, the dimmer the finder.

...

One reason bright screens are so widely used today is that many SLRs are now autofocus, and focus isn’t dependent on your eye, so focusing snap no longer matters. If you want to see what a really bright viewfinder looks like, take a gander through Minolta’s Maxxum 7 next time you’re in a camera store. It’s an example of a finder with very good brightness, but it doesn’t have very good focusing snap. The Maxxum 7’s magnification is excellent as well, at least by AF-camera standards. Although manual focusing with this finder may be tough, it’s an incredibly bright, contrasty, crisp and clean AF viewfinder. Frankly, compared to most cameras these days, the Maxxum 7 is a pleasure to shoot with because it’s such a pleasure to look at the world through. But I digress.

...

Now take a look for a moment at the comparative specs for the two Contaxes, the RTSIII and Aria. Contax gives its users the best of both worlds: those who want 100% coverage can choose the RTSIII. With the Aria, which, like most Contaxes, has a particularly excellent viewfinder, the coverage goes down slightly to 95% (still very good), but the magnification goes up, to .82X. This, plus the Aria’s excellent “focusing snap,” makes manual focusing easy. Combined with the Aria’s outstanding eye relief (more than one inch, better than both the Nikon F5 and Canon EOS-1V!), it makes for a very good viewfinder indeed.

...

https://luminous-landscape.com/understanding-viewfinders/

.

...

Some have criticized screens made for DSLRs for not being able to truly show the appearance of out-of-focus areas so that Bokeh could be properly evaluated. The reality is that DSLR screens are optimized for brightness, given that light is siphoned off for autofocusing. This is done by using extremely fine micro prisms rather than a true abrasion pattern or "ground glass" focusing surface. The micro prisms limit the ability to show blur to about what a f/2.8-f/4 would produce, even when using a larger aperture lens. True ground glass focusing surfaces give a much better indication of the image at all apertures from sharp focus to maximum blur. The image "pops" at "in-focus" much better than happens on the D800/E screen.

To be sure, it is not possible to really evaluate the OOF image on a "35 mm" SLR (or DSLR). The image is just too small. The ability to stop down and compare wide-open focusing to that at the taking aperture is just a rough idea of the effect. It really takes a medium format image or 4x5 to really see the image for such purposes.

...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51149976

 

[photoreddi]

...

...

Thanks for the correction. Even though I probably had read somewhere that it was "f/4", I must have pulled "f/2.8" out of a corner of my mind that knew about Canon's f/2.8 AF sensors that are used by some of their DSLRs.

I'm sorry, photoeddi - but Pv will have nothing to do with the AF-sensors (which actually would have been f:5.6, then).

Youl will see, what comes through the lens - not what hits the AF-sensors

And I'm also sorry, that you are most likely wrong. What I wrote about the wide aperture effect using DSLRs had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with AF sensors. You followed an unintentional red herring. The only reason I mentioned AF sensors was to come up with a reason why "f/2.8" stuck in my mind. But I did find confirmation of what I wrote in a DPR thread written a couple of years ago, which I quoted in another reply of mine that was posted several minutes ago. It's at the bottom of the reply and here it is, requoted :

...

Some have criticized screens made for DSLRs for not being able to truly show the appearance of out-of-focus areas so that Bokeh could be properly evaluated. The reality is that DSLR screens are optimized for brightness, given that light is siphoned off for autofocusing. This is done by using extremely fine micro prisms rather than a true abrasion pattern or "ground glass" focusing surface. The micro prisms limit the ability to show blur to about what a f/2.8-f/4 would produce, even when using a larger aperture lens. True ground glass focusing surfaces give a much better indication of the image at all apertures from sharp focus to maximum blur. The image "pops" at "in-focus" much better than happens on the D800/E screen.

To be sure, it is not possible to really evaluate the OOF image on a "35 mm" SLR (or DSLR). The image is just too small. The ability to stop down and compare wide-open focusing to that at the taking aperture is just a rough idea of the effect. It really takes a medium format image or 4x5 to really see the image for such purposes.

...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51149976

.

Did that change anything?

 

[photoreddi]

...

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

I think that you too are mistaken. You're only giving a reason why SaintGermain might be mistaken if he wasn't being careful enough. But based on what I've written (and quoted in my previous two replies) it appears that testing with very wide and much smaller apertures (easier done with carefully placed objects at various camera-to-object distances), it won't be possible to see DOF differences using aperture changes from VERY wide to SMALLER apertures, until the smaller apertures are reduced to smaller than from about f/2.8 to f/4.))

I'm impressed not only by how the OP not only duplicated the effect described in that reply that I quoted (which was written about 2 years ago) but also by how he is willing to remain convinced by what he thinks that he actually saw, where many others here in his position might have been browbeaten into capitulating to the many replies trying to convince him that he was probably mistaken.

 

[SaintGermain]

...

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

I think that you too are mistaken. You're only giving a reason why SaintGermain might be mistaken if he wasn't being careful enough. But based on what I've written (and quoted in my previous two replies) it appears that testing with very wide and much smaller apertures (easier done with carefully placed objects at various camera-to-object distances), it won't be possible to see DOF differences using aperture changes from VERY wide to SMALLER apertures, until the smaller apertures are reduced to smaller than from about f/2.8 to f/4.))

I'm impressed not only by how the OP not only duplicated the effect described in that reply that I quoted (which was written about 2 years ago) but also by how he is willing to remain convinced by what he thinks that he actually saw, where many others here in his position might have been browbeaten into capitulating to the many replies trying to convince him that he was probably mistaken.

Um, I'm only describing what I am seeing, nothing impressive here ;-)

Thanks for your research and the links, I have some reading to do before understanding everything.

One note though : in Live view, after taking a picture, the Live view is updated with the aperture selected. So instead of using the Pv button in Live view, we can take a picture and then see the DoF on the Live view. It is faster that going out and back to Live view.

Cheers,

 

[photoreddi]

...

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

I think that you too are mistaken. You're only giving a reason why SaintGermain might be mistaken if he wasn't being careful enough. But based on what I've written (and quoted in my previous two replies) it appears that testing with very wide and much smaller apertures (easier done with carefully placed objects at various camera-to-object distances), it won't be possible to see DOF differences using aperture changes from VERY wide to SMALLER apertures, until the smaller apertures are reduced to smaller than from about f/2.8 to f/4.))

I'm impressed not only by how the OP not only duplicated the effect described in that reply that I quoted (which was written about 2 years ago) but also by how he is willing to remain convinced by what he thinks that he actually saw, where many others here in his position might have been browbeaten into capitulating to the many replies trying to convince him that he was probably mistaken.

Um, I'm only describing what I am seeing, nothing impressive here ;-)

Maybe, but everyone else should see what you saw, but most of them think that you were mistaken Iso they've simply tried to come up with reasons why what you described wasn't so.

.

Thanks for your research and the links, I have some reading to do before understanding everything.

One note though : in Live view, after taking a picture, the Live view is updated with the aperture selected. So instead of using the Pv button in Live view, we can take a picture and then see the DoF on the Live view. It is faster that going out and back to Live view.

I'm glad it works for you, but Nikon has several quite different Live View implementations, so it may not work with other DSLRs, such as the D7000, etc.

I tried to add an edit to my last reply, mentioning that I was also impressed by the way BirgerH stood his ground and didn't accept what I originally wrote. He's a smart guy but I think that he just needs to read something new about how DOF works with DSLRs using wide aperture lenses, something that's rarely discussed here. DPR's software rejected that edit saying that it exceeded the 15 minute editing window, but when I pressed the [Post] button, I was only about 6 or 7 minutes into the editing window. This is a recurring problem but since it has been happening for probably close to 2 years, it's unlikely to be fixed anytime soon.

If I ever find what I think that Marianne Oelund wrote here about the topic I'll try to append that information. For anyone that isn't familiar with her, she's a rather brilliant photographer/engineer/scientist/figure skater, and nobody should be surprised that several years ago Thom Hogan took her findings about Nikon's new Hot Pixel Suppression that was added to the D3 (but so poorly implemented that it had a negative effect on astrophotography), and that resulted in Nikon revising the HPS algorithm in a firmware upgrade. Anyone that knows Nikon is probably aware that this probably was NOT what Nikon wanted to acknowledge, because it probably caused one or more Nikon employees (development engineers and/or executives) losing face.

 

[Mako2011]

What I would like is pressing the Pv button down, and see immediatly the depth of field changing when I am changing the aperture. Basically what is described here:

Using the viewfinder, it seems that pressing the Pv button only darken the view and the aperture seems to be locked on f1.8 (so no blurry background)

No. The PV-button works as intended in VF-mode. If it darkens the image, it's because, your exposure is off. Remember, the preview button will take no effect of the set ISO - nor the set SS.

That makes imo the PV-button rather useless.

Let me reformulate, in the viewfinder with the Pv button pressed:

If I am at f1.8, I see the result of f4.0 equivalent (so no blurry background). However the picture taken, shows a blurry background

What exposure mode are you in? Try it in Aperture or manual exposure priority.

I am in Aperture mode.

Above f4.0, it seems that the Pv button gives the correct result (background increasingly in focus).

Below f4.0, the Pv button doesn't have any effect on focus (background always has the same focus).

Because when you are looking through the viewfinder (Pv button not pressed) you are seeing it with the aperture wide open...f1.8 in this case. You won't notice much change (in light and DoF unless you look real close) when pressing the Pv button till about, f4 in this case.

Umm not really. When I am not pressing the Pv button, I see the f4.0 equivalent, even at f1.8 or f8.0.

The difference can be almost unnoticeable when looking through the viewfinder (in some cases)...look through the front of the lens to see if the aperture size is really changing.

Aperture size is changing when I look at the front of the lens.

Then we know the camera/lens is not broke and working right.

However I don't see any results when looking that the viewfinder.

That can be normal depending on focus point, subject distance, etc.

Pictures taken at f1.8 and f4.0 are _really_ different (strong blurry background at f1.8). I have no problem at all seing the difference with the Live view. Impossible to see the difference with the viewfinder.

It's hard to see/notice, sometimes, f1.8 to f4. Much easier with an FX body and the bigger viewfinder.

Can someone with a FX body can test with a close object at f1.8, and tell us if they see a difference between the view offered by the viewfinder with Pv pressed, and the image taken ?

Thanks !

You see the difference with either (once you get used to what to look for...it can be subtle)...just more obvious in the bigger viewfinder. Once you get used to it...Pv Button can be useful on a DX body...but by then you don't need it as much because you "know" what (get conditioned) to expect with the final results.

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

 

[Mako2011]

...

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

I think that you too are mistaken.

Not really. The difference between f1.8 and f2.8, using the PV button and looking though the viewfinder, is really really obvious when the subject you focus on is close to min focus distance and the background is way in the distance. The difference between f1.8 and f2.8, using the PV button and looking though the viewfinder, is not obvious at all when the subject you focus on is relatively farther away and the background is in the distance. In the later case one might perceive no difference, looking through the viewfinder with the Pv button, f1.8 vs f2.8. In the former case...it's obvious. Try it.

You're only giving a reason why SaintGermain might be mistaken if he wasn't being careful enough.

Correct...and why he might think the Pv button was not doing as it's supposed to be...when it actually is/was.

But based on what I've written (and quoted in my previous two replies) it appears that testing with very wide and much smaller apertures (easier done with carefully placed objects at various camera-to-object distances), it won't be possible to see DOF differences using aperture changes from VERY wide to SMALLER apertures, until the smaller apertures are reduced to smaller than from about f/2.8 to f/4.))

No...one really can see oblivious differences, using the Pv button, between f1.8 and f2.8 (with a DX body) when viewing conditions are optimal for it.

I'm impressed not only by how the OP not only duplicated the effect described in that reply that I quoted (which was written about 2 years ago) but also by how he is willing to remain convinced by what he thinks that he actually saw, where many others here in his position might have been browbeaten into capitulating to the many replies trying to convince him that he was probably mistaken.

He is mistaken, to a degree. The Pv button is working as it should, and the difference can be seen, even at small f numbers, when you know what to look for and under what circumstances. Not unlike some folks who can see subtle changes in focus point, when looking through the viewfinder, when others are less likely to notice. Said another way, he could hand his setup to someone with a lot of experience with the DoF button and ask them to look and see if they notice the dif between f1.8 and f2.8...and they might rightly say yes....when he doesn't yet.

 

[SaintGermain]

...

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

I think that you too are mistaken.

Not really. The difference between f1.8 and f2.8, using the PV button and looking though the viewfinder, is really really obvious when the subject you focus on is close to min focus distance and the background is way in the distance. The difference between f1.8 and f2.8, using the PV button and looking though the viewfinder, is not obvious at all when the subject you focus on is relatively farther away and the background is in the distance. In the later case one might perceive no difference, looking through the viewfinder with the Pv button, f1.8 vs f2.8. In the former case...it's obvious. Try it.

You're only giving a reason why SaintGermain might be mistaken if he wasn't being careful enough.

Correct...and why he might think the Pv button was not doing as it's supposed to be...when it actually is/was.

But based on what I've written (and quoted in my previous two replies) it appears that testing with very wide and much smaller apertures (easier done with carefully placed objects at various camera-to-object distances), it won't be possible to see DOF differences using aperture changes from VERY wide to SMALLER apertures, until the smaller apertures are reduced to smaller than from about f/2.8 to f/4.))

No...one really can see oblivious differences, using the Pv button, between f1.8 and f2.8 (with a DX body) when viewing conditions are optimal for it.

I'm impressed not only by how the OP not only duplicated the effect described in that reply that I quoted (which was written about 2 years ago) but also by how he is willing to remain convinced by what he thinks that he actually saw, where many others here in his position might have been browbeaten into capitulating to the many replies trying to convince him that he was probably mistaken.

He is mistaken, to a degree. The Pv button is working as it should, and the difference can be seen, even at small f numbers, when you know what to look for and under what circumstances. Not unlike some folks who can see subtle changes in focus point, when looking through the viewfinder, when others are less likely to notice. Said another way, he could hand his setup to someone with a lot of experience with the DoF button and ask them to look and see if they notice the dif between f1.8 and f2.8...and they might rightly say yes....when he doesn't yet.

Well it is quite easy to settle.

I have taken the pictures that I see through the viewfinder (thanks to my tiny Canon S95) with and without the Pv button pressed.

Let me 1-2 hours to post them.

Cheers,

 

[Mako2011]

...

I'm becoming thoroughly confused, as what photoeddi is describing, is exactly what I am seeing.

Simply put, with or without Pv button, I cannot see a blurry background in the viewfinder when in Aperture mode, with aperture set to f1.8.

And you may not depending on focus point and subject distance. That's normal....unless your aperture blades are stuck...but then the images produced would also show no dif as aperture setting changes

I think that you too are mistaken.

Not really. The difference between f1.8 and f2.8, using the PV button and looking though the viewfinder, is really really obvious when the subject you focus on is close to min focus distance and the background is way in the distance. The difference between f1.8 and f2.8, using the PV button and looking though the viewfinder, is not obvious at all when the subject you focus on is relatively farther away and the background is in the distance. In the later case one might perceive no difference, looking through the viewfinder with the Pv button, f1.8 vs f2.8. In the former case...it's obvious. Try it.

You're only giving a reason why SaintGermain might be mistaken if he wasn't being careful enough.

Correct...and why he might think the Pv button was not doing as it's supposed to be...when it actually is/was.

But based on what I've written (and quoted in my previous two replies) it appears that testing with very wide and much smaller apertures (easier done with carefully placed objects at various camera-to-object distances), it won't be possible to see DOF differences using aperture changes from VERY wide to SMALLER apertures, until the smaller apertures are reduced to smaller than from about f/2.8 to f/4.))

No...one really can see oblivious differences, using the Pv button, between f1.8 and f2.8 (with a DX body) when viewing conditions are optimal for it.

I'm impressed not only by how the OP not only duplicated the effect described in that reply that I quoted (which was written about 2 years ago) but also by how he is willing to remain convinced by what he thinks that he actually saw, where many others here in his position might have been browbeaten into capitulating to the many replies trying to convince him that he was probably mistaken.

He is mistaken, to a degree. The Pv button is working as it should, and the difference can be seen, even at small f numbers, when you know what to look for and under what circumstances. Not unlike some folks who can see subtle changes in focus point, when looking through the viewfinder, when others are less likely to notice. Said another way, he could hand his setup to someone with a lot of experience with the DoF button and ask them to look and see if they notice the dif between f1.8 and f2.8...and they might rightly say yes....when he doesn't yet.

Well it is quite easy to settle.

I have taken the pictures that I see through the viewfinder (thanks to my tiny Canon S95) with and without the Pv button pressed.

Let me 1-2 hours to post them.

Cheers,

I simply used my own DX camera and f1.8 prime lens...to confirm I could easily see the difference when conditions were optimal. Will be interesting to see under what shooting condition you were using to compare. Be sure and post at full resolution so differences can be noted. I'm not sure at what viewing magnification would simulate the human eye up to the viewfinder...have to think about that one. Good Luck

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)