Does using DR 200 or 400 increase noise if all exposure variables are constant?

[Erik Baumgartner]

Can you share an original SOOC image without running it through any other software first? All the important EXIF information has been stripped from these. I'm curious to see if any other settings might be causing a conflict with the DR AUTO operation (probably not, but still maybe worth a look see). If any sort of subject recognition or Face/Eye detect mode was active, it may override DRAUTO.

These are out of camera, no other software involved. I just processed the RAW in camera to get a jpeg since I shot in RAW only. The EXIF should be intact (at least as shown on my computer).

However, this one is a jpeg-only SOOC shot, not reprocessed or anything. Same settings as before – DR-Auto, Auto-ISO, multi metering. The camera chose DR100:

For whatever reason, this and all the other jpegs all have most of their metadata stripped and are smaller in file size than one would expect from a full-size 40MP jpeg. Want to share a RAW file?

 

[shodan_f]

For whatever reason, this and all the other jpegs all have most of their metadata stripped and are smaller in file size than one would expect from a full-size 40MP jpeg. Want to share a RAW file?

Indeed. The original jpeg is 21 MB, must be the forum software.

Thanks for looking into it, here are the RAWS: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u4QGqknhdQvJBbNIWwlDxe86AgnfzotP?usp=sharing

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

For whatever reason, this and all the other jpegs all have most of their metadata stripped and are smaller in file size than one would expect from a full-size 40MP jpeg. Want to share a RAW file?

Indeed. The original jpeg is 21 MB, must be the forum software.

Thanks for looking into it, here are the RAWS: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u4QGqknhdQvJBbNIWwlDxe86AgnfzotP?usp=sharing

I don't see any reason why the DR AUTO mode shouldn't be working, but it clearly isn't. You might want to drop Fuji a note about that and see what they say.

Both images have blown highlights - just the green channel, so you can still recover some detail, but you think DR200 should have kicked in. Personally, I only shoot RAW and only use DR100. If I shot jpegs, I'd still want to switch on the DR modes on an as-needed basis only, but I can see why someone who isn't always as mindful of their highlight would want this feature to actually work. If you're shooting jpegs and want some better post processing latitude, you might want to consider "Fine" jpegs rather than "Normal".


Blown RAW pixels - via RawDigger


As the red and blue channel are intact, some detail can still be recovered from the blown clouds, but it would definitely look better with a good green channel.


This is the worst of the two overexposures. Blown highlights, but sorta recoverable, certainly better thsn the SOOC jpeg.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

DR 200 and 400 under-expose images by 1 or 2 stops to preserve highlight information and record the amount of under exposure in the RAW file.

It's a common misunderstanding that Fujifilm DR modes underexpose a photo. As explained by DPReview's Richard Butler, the DR modes adjust the relationship between exposure and amplification to add highlight headroom. At base ISO, the only available option to accomplish this is a reduction in exposure. At higher ISOs, reduced exposure isn't necessary.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68278921

A key to understanding DR modes is that the concept of underexposure assumes that a greater exposure could have been used to achieve the same or better image quality. If blown highlights at base ISO are not acceptable, a lower exposure must be used. There is no other option to recover detail in those highlights.

That's not underexposure. It's the correct exposure for the image you envision making.

Relying on a DR mode rather than simply exposing the highlights optimally in normal DR100 mode at base ISO, will usually result in a lower than optimal exposure. If you walk around using DR400 mode full time without significant positive exposure compensation, you will typically be underexposing by at least 2 stops - rather a lot, and achieving closer to 1” or m43 performance rather than maximum APS-C.

 

[Bill Ferris]

I wonder if the algorithm sees a +2/3 EC and determines that the photographer has prioritized exposure over highlights?

It'd be interesting to see what conditions would result in the camera choosing a DR setting other than base. That would shed some light on the logic behind the auto setting.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

I wonder if the algorithm sees a +2/3 EC and determines that the photographer has prioritized exposure over highlights?

It'd be interesting to see what conditions would result in the camera choosing a DR setting other than base. That would shed some light on the logic behind the auto setting.

Yes, does DRAuto ever switch automatically?

 

[Greybeard2023]

For whatever reason, this and all the other jpegs all have most of their metadata stripped and are smaller in file size than one would expect from a full-size 40MP jpeg. Want to share a RAW file?

Indeed. The original jpeg is 21 MB, must be the forum software.

Thanks for looking into it, here are the RAWS: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u4QGqknhdQvJBbNIWwlDxe86AgnfzotP?usp=sharing

You would get those results with fixed ISO

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

For whatever reason, this and all the other jpegs all have most of their metadata stripped and are smaller in file size than one would expect from a full-size 40MP jpeg. Want to share a RAW file?

Indeed. The original jpeg is 21 MB, must be the forum software.

Thanks for looking into it, here are the RAWS: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u4QGqknhdQvJBbNIWwlDxe86AgnfzotP?usp=sharing

You would get those results with fixed ISO

Good point.

 

[shodan_f]

I wonder if the algorithm sees a +2/3 EC and determines that the photographer has prioritized exposure over highlights?

It'd be interesting to see what conditions would result in the camera choosing a DR setting other than base. That would shed some light on the logic behind the auto setting.

Yes, does DRAuto ever switch automatically?

I always thought that that’s the point of the DR-Modes. Use positive EC to get correctly exposed midtones and shadows while protecting the highlights – thus, get a well exposed jpeg. Anyway, it doesn’t matter if EC is 0 or positive, in the 2½ years of using the X-T5 I have never seen DR-Auto engaging DR200, hence my first comment that the function is “broken” on the X-T5.

I actually wrote to Fuji support about this back in January 2023. The short answer was “it works as intended” with no further explanation. However, as others commented, other models function differently, i.e. DR-Auto utilizes DR200 when needed, like – as far as I’m concerned – it should.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

I wonder if the algorithm sees a +2/3 EC and determines that the photographer has prioritized exposure over highlights?

It'd be interesting to see what conditions would result in the camera choosing a DR setting other than base. That would shed some light on the logic behind the auto setting.

Yes, does DRAuto ever switch automatically?

I always thought that that’s the point of the DR-Modes. Use positive EC to get correctly exposed midtones and shadows while protecting the highlights – thus, get a well exposed jpeg. Anyway, it doesn’t matter if EC is 0 or positive, in the 2½ years of using the X-T5 I have never seen DR-Auto engaging DR200, hence my first comment that the function is “broken” on the X-T5.

I actually wrote to Fuji support about this back in January 2023. The short answer was “it works as intended” with no further explanation. However, as others commented, other models function differently, i.e. DR-Auto utilizes DR200 when needed, like – as far as I’m concerned – it should.

You do have your ISO dial set to “A”, correct? If not, only DR100 is possible with the ISO set to a lower value than is required for a different DR mode.

The older cameras decide to switch to DR200 based on the scene rather than if clipping will occur with the current exposure settings (dumb, IMO), but I imagine the X-T5 is the same - maybe you need a really high DR scene.

 

[shodan_f]

You do have your ISO dial set to “A”, correct? If not, only DR100 is possible with the ISO set to a lower value than is required for a different DR mode.

The older cameras decide to switch to DR200 based on the scene rather than if clipping will occur with the current exposure settings (dumb, IMO), but I imagine the X-T5 is the same - maybe you need a really high DR scene.

Yes, dial to “A”, Auto-ISO range from 125 to 12800. The camera could do it, if it wanted to.

Maybe I should work more with RAWs, in the end they look better anyway.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

You do have your ISO dial set to “A”, correct? If not, only DR100 is possible with the ISO set to a lower value than is required for a different DR mode.

The older cameras decide to switch to DR200 based on the scene rather than if clipping will occur with the current exposure settings (dumb, IMO), but I imagine the X-T5 is the same - maybe you need a really high DR scene.

Yes, dial to “A”, Auto-ISO range from 125 to 12800. The camera could do it, if it wanted to.

Maybe I should work more with RAWs, in the end they look better anyway.

If you want to work with jpegs, just set the highlight exposure in DR100 mode (use the blinkies), if the mid tones and shadows look too dark, flip to DR200 and you’ll have +1 stop of additional EC to work with to get the overall image lightness brighter without clipping any highlights . If you need even more than a stop, go with DR400 and you’ll have +2 stops (and noticeably flatter highlight detail).