Does anyone else wish they had "ISO Priority" or some sort of fully-custom programmable Auto?

[MysteryLemon]

You can do most of this with Nikon DSLRs

 

[PalmettoFellow]

You can do most of this with Nikon DSLRs

Please elaborate

 

[jrtrent]

Maybe some camera already does this.

If there's one setting I'm changing all day constantly, it's ISO.

I suppose it depends on the camera, but ISO is something I test when getting a new camera; I try to find the ISO setting that gives me the best picture quality, then just leave it alone. For example, my current DSLR looks best at ISO 400--ISO 200 clips highlight detail more readily, and ISO 800 is noisier than I'd like--so ISO 400 has become the only setting I use.

But my camera noticeably lacks a simple wheel to scroll ISO up and down.
I think nicer cameras have this.

There are many times I'm walking around where shutter speed is who-cares (just the bare minimum to avoid shutter shake, let's say 200). And aperture is mostly-don't-care (would love to be at f8 all day unless forced to open up).

Right now, changing ISO is too much menu navigation.

What I'd love is:

- Moving the wheel controls ISO.

- Aperture is fixed unless I press and hold a button, and then scroll the wheel (just like manual)

- Camera decides shutter speed based on desired exposure.

- Most important (and this is why I can't do this on manual or other modes): shutter speed never ever drops below, say, 200. So shutter shake is no problem. I'd love a programmable auto where I can say "never go below ___ or above ___ on ISO" or "never go below ___ in shutter speed". I also would like to exclude f-stops higher than 11 because you can see everything get soft due to diffraction and using f22 or whatever is sort of a specialty case, not for automatic everyday shooting.

In this and other posts in the thread, you've indicated that with your current camera ISO needs to be below 800 (ISO 800 looks "ugly"), that you don't trust its metering (opens up shadows more than necessary), that f/8 is the sweet spot for your lens, and that you need a minimum shutter speed of 1/200 second to freeze motion and stop camera shake. If you don't trust the camera's exposure choices, then no kind of auto mode would seem to be a good solution. A workable compromise might be to stay in manual mode, pre-select both aperture and ISO values, use the "partial" metering mode so you can be more selective about what you're metering off of, then use the control dial to adjust the shutter speed for the desired tonality of the item you're metering from (e.g., for green grass you might just center the meter, but for darker green foliage you might want the meter to read -1). If the indicated shutter speed is below 1/200, then you can choose to compromise your aperture and/or ISO settings, or simply put the camera away til there's better light.

Maybe a smart programmable auto mode that obeys those rules, but also detects for example that the scene is too dark, and at 200 shutter speed it will come out way underexposed, so it automatically bumps ISO even though I forgot to scroll the wheel.

Am I the only one who'd like this?

Probably because I had long been accustomed to cameras without auto exposure capability and preferred using a hand-held spot meter, I find auto modes confusing and difficult to control. In manual, I always know what I've set and why, I don't need to deal with things like AE lock or exposure compensation, and I know the camera won't change anything by itself just because I've pressed the shutter release button. Manual mode keeps things simple, quick, and repeatable, so I have no great desire for solutions involving automation.

 

[wchutt]

[No message]

 

[CreeDo]

There are many times I'm walking around where shutter speed is who-cares (just the bare minimum to avoid shutter shake, let's say 200). And aperture is mostly-don't-care (would love to be at f8 all day unless forced to open up).

... Let me get this straight ... you don't care what the shutter speed is and you don't care what the f-stop is, but for some reason, you care what the ISO is ?

I got what the OP is getting at because I share his concern. Because of this concern, I set very high ISO by default and occasionally upgrade my camera when a higher max ISO model comes around. High ISO is the best thing invented since cheese.

Why? If you and the OP don't care what the shutter speed is, you can just use base ISO and A mode and accept whatever shutter speed you get.

Yes, we are basically talking about the same idea. Particularly for moving subjects, by setting a high base ISO, everything else is taken care of automatically by the camera,

But why not use base ISO? If you don't care about shutter speed (which I really don't understand, but that is another matter), then there is no need to go to a high ISO.

Because as someone else observed I never want it below 1/200th. I don't want to worry about camera shake.

Right now, I can use AV mode and a fast lens, walk around at, say, f/4 or f5.6 or even f8 in bright sunshine... and put ISO at 400. Then I will have most of my photos in the safe zone as far as shutter speed.

But, I don't want to add ISO400 to every single shot. On most shots that's losing quality for no reason. On nicer cameras the noise is so minor it almost doesn't matter but unfortunately mine is not one of those.

I'd love for it to intelligently decide "OK, 1/2000th @ ISO400 is overkill here. Let's drop to 1/500th and shoot at ISO 100 instead." I'd love to basically be able to specify via programming "shoot in AV mode, and keep ISO as low as possible, but don't let shutter speed ever go below 1/200th. Add ISO if it's gonna be underexposed at 1/200th."

 

[Allan Olesen]

Because as someone else observed I never want it below 1/200th. I don't want to worry about camera shake.

So you do care about shutter speed. I am glad to hear that.

In that case, you should pick the shutter speed you want, pick the aperture you wan't, and let the camera decide the ISO.

That is actually the opposite of what you ask for, but it would fit your expressed needs much better.

If your camera don't have such a mode as I described - well, welcome to the club. My camera doesn't either, and I really miss it.

 

[CreeDo]

Because as someone else observed I never want it below 1/200th. I don't want to worry about camera shake.

So you do care about shutter speed. I am glad to hear that.

In that case, you should pick the shutter speed you want, pick the aperture you wan't, and let the camera decide the ISO.

I wish I could trust the camera with that decision. Then I'd just do M mode with auto ISO.

But yeah I'd be ok with the arrangement if the camera used ISO grudgingly. I have a setting for max auto ISO... Maybe I'll lock that at 800 and try Av mode for outdoor shooting in decent sun.

 

[57LowRider]

Not uniquely - Leica is the same, possibly Canon and Nikon give more options, but the X series give you Auto ISO with min and max ISO and min shutter speed to 1/500. I was a bit scathing of the idea at first and then found that it was jolly useful in practice. It's not idea for every situation, that's what manual is for, but Aperture priority and EV comp with this covers about 70% of my stuff.

 

[hdr]

... Why? If you and the OP don't care what the shutter speed is, you can just use base ISO and A mode and accept whatever shutter speed you get.

I believe OP wants at least 1/200 shutter speed, shorter than that is also OK...

I think the Nikon minimum shutter speed, auto ISO mode is DX and up; Nikon V/J 1 does not seem to have this ISO auto mode.

Yup, you got the idea. 1/200 is very good for many not-too-demanding action shots. That, coupled with a stabilizing neckstrap, will ensure many well-exposed action shots are acquired.

 

[Aberaeron]

... Why? If you and the OP don't care what the shutter speed is, you can just use base ISO and A mode and accept whatever shutter speed you get.

I believe OP wants at least 1/200 shutter speed, shorter than that is also OK...

I think the Nikon minimum shutter speed, auto ISO mode is DX and up; Nikon V/J 1 does not seem to have this ISO auto mode.

Yup, you got the idea. 1/200 is very good for many not-too-demanding action shots. That, coupled with a stabilizing neckstrap, will ensure many well-exposed action shots are acquired.

 

[NetMage]

Another feature you might find useful with a more powerful Canon is they have Safety Shift and will override either your Av or Tv setting or your ISO setting (depending on how it is configured) if it is unable to create a proper exposure based on your settings. Another reason Canon really needs EC with M mode.

 

[Allan Olesen]

Because as someone else observed I never want it below 1/200th. I don't want to worry about camera shake.

So you do care about shutter speed. I am glad to hear that.

In that case, you should pick the shutter speed you want, pick the aperture you wan't, and let the camera decide the ISO.

I wish I could trust the camera with that decision. Then I'd just do M mode with auto ISO.

Why do you feel that you can trust the camera to do fixed aperture, fixed ISO and automatic shutter speed, but not fixed aperture, fixed shutter speed and automatic ISO?

It is the same metering. Same result.

The only exception is if you have dialed in some exposure compensation and use a camera which in some modes does not respect your choice of exposure compensation.

But yeah I'd be ok with the arrangement if the camera used ISO grudgingly.

I have no idea what "grudgingly" means in this context.

I have a setting for max auto ISO... Maybe I'll lock that at 800 and try Av mode for outdoor shooting in decent sun.

If you use fixed aperture, fixed shutter speed and automatic ISO, you do not need a max. ISO setting. The ISO will be a result of your fixed settings. If this results in too little light reaching the sensor, then you will often only make the noise worse by keeping the ISO low.

 

[Dennis]

I wish I could trust the camera with that decision. Then I'd just do M mode with auto ISO.

It's not a decision; it's a calculation. Any time you're controlling 2 of the 3 parameters, the camera is calculating the third based on the meter reading (it's up to you to meter correctly).

So if it calculates ISO 1600, it has to be ISO 1600, assuming you've metered correctly. No trust involved. If you don't like ISO 1600, then you have to change the aperture/shutter speed. (On at least some Nikons, like my D7000, a half press shows you the calculated ISO so you have the option of tweaking your settings).

That's why I said earlier that I don't care about ISO. When I set my shutter speed and aperture, I do it with the mindset that I'm going to put as much light on the sensor as possible. If the ISO ends up at 6400, it ends up at 6400. It's apparently dark Sure, I'd rather ISO 1600 than 6400, but that requires a slower shutter speed, and if I could have gone slower on the shutter speed, I would have done so in the first place. Now, realistically, there may be times where I could go down to 1/250s but would prefer 1/500s so I'll start at 1/500s, but drop down to 1/250s if the ISO is up near 6400 ... that kind of compromising is easy to do when you just monitor the ISO value with a half press.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[hdr]

... Why? If you and the OP don't care what the shutter speed is, you can just use base ISO and A mode and accept whatever shutter speed you get.

I believe OP wants at least 1/200 shutter speed, shorter than that is also OK...

I think the Nikon minimum shutter speed, auto ISO mode is DX and up; Nikon V/J 1 does not seem to have this ISO auto mode.

Yup, you got the idea. 1/200 is very good for many not-too-demanding action shots. That, coupled with a stabilizing neckstrap, will ensure many well-exposed action shots are acquired.

So why doesn't he use Shutter/Tv priority set tp 1/200th and let the aperture and ISO work themselves out? Or why not even press the ISO button and adjust it as and when necessary just as everyone else does that prefer manual ISO adjustment?

Photographing in action-filled events leaves little or no time for assessing the lighting conditions or adjusting the camera. In those situations, full concentration is spent on capturing the fleeting scenes. Setting Tv mode is well and good, but without a high enough sensor ISO, that can result in a lot of unders, especially at an event inside a building. Ultimately, it is high and higher ISOs which is in real demand.

--
Depth has been the mizzing dimenzion for long enough. But still, few are bothered with 3D.
My favourite 3D-pair site:- http://www.singaporegallery.com

 

[CreeDo]

I wish I could trust the camera with that decision. Then I'd just do M mode with auto ISO.

Why do you feel that you can trust the camera to do fixed aperture, fixed ISO and automatic shutter speed, but not fixed aperture, fixed shutter speed and automatic ISO?

It is the same metering. Same result.

Because letting the camera decide shutter speed never hurts image quality, as long as it's higher than 200. I don't care if the camera picks 1/350, 1/630, or 1/2500. It's all the same visually (assuming a still subject).

But ISO 200, 400, and 3200 are not all the same. I don't want the camera to jump directly to 3200 or 6400 in bright daylight and add unnecessary noise just because I happen to be pointing the camera at a crow or something dark-ish.

But yeah I'd be ok with the arrangement if the camera used ISO grudgingly.

I have no idea what "grudgingly" means in this context.

So, for example, I'm in an office right now and aim at a black filing cabinet, and it immediately tries to expose that cabinet so brightly that it appears medium gray. I guess it's not the camera's fault it can't read my mind and understand that I am fine with the filing cabinet staying fairly black. But regardless, it's adding ISO I don't want and bringing down my image quality. So I can't use auto ISO.

 

[Dennis]

Why do you feel that you can trust the camera to do fixed aperture, fixed ISO and automatic shutter speed, but not fixed aperture, fixed shutter speed and automatic ISO?

It is the same metering. Same result.

Because letting the camera decide shutter speed never hurts image quality, as long as it's higher than 200. I don't care if the camera picks 1/350, 1/630, or 1/2500. It's all the same visually (assuming a still subject).

But ISO 200, 400, and 3200 are not all the same.

So if those shutter speeds are visually the same for your purposes, choose the lowest one (1/200s) in M mode and your ISO is guaranteed to be as low as possible.

• Dennis
  --
  Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

 

[CreeDo]

I can set the limit for max ISO when in auto ISO, but I can't establish limits for shutter speed or aperture.

I'd like a fully customizable mode where I can set a max and min for each element that affects exposure, and I am referring to the triangle here, so you purists can bugger off.

Once I've got the limits set, I then prioritize them in order or importance. For instance, I'd like to keep the ISO at 100 and aperture at F8 until shutter speed falls to 1/160, then change ISO as needed until ISO 800...at which time, aperture can go to F5.6. If F4 is min aperture, then we go back to changing ISO until I hit 3200. Once there, I get some sort of warning that i've exceeded my goals, like a blinking light in viewfinder, but it then starts affecting shutter speed...like in Program mode.

I know it can get complicated writing out all the rules, so it would take some engineering time creating a good working interface to allow the user to really setup what he wants to occur.

My ideal would be adjust shutter speed as primary exposure adjustment until I reach the threshold for freezing motion, or camera shake...then I move to ISO up to a point, then I start playing with aperture, and finally higher ISO as a last ditch to get the exposure. The aperture is important for DoF, so I'd like to adjust that last, but I'd sacrifice some DoF to keep from having to use my highest ISO settings depending on the scene.

This is more or less what I have in mind. All of us have our own mental priority list for what we prefer to change when we need more or less exposure. For me, it's pretty straightforward:

200 shutter speed all the time, at f8, ISO 100.

If not enough exposure, open up aperture, and keep opening all the way up to f/1.4.

If still not enough exposure, add ISO until exposure is sufficient, or until a max of 1600.

If still not enough exposure, go ahead and drop shutter speed to my personal bare minimum, 1/80th.

Bonus: read my mind and somehow know that just because the center point is on something dark, doesn't mean I want to brighten everything until the dark thing is light gray.

I see no reason they can't create a user interface that lets me set up these rules and then use my custom Auto mode that makes decisions more or less like I do (though I will of course be able to override and break the rules if I need more depth of field or I don't like what the metering is giving me).

 

[CreeDo]

Maybe some camera already does this.

If there's one setting I'm changing all day constantly, it's ISO.

I suppose it depends on the camera, but ISO is something I test when getting a new camera; I try to find the ISO setting that gives me the best picture quality, then just leave it alone. For example, my current DSLR looks best at ISO 400--ISO 200 clips highlight detail more readily, and ISO 800 is noisier than I'd like--so ISO 400 has become the only setting I use.

I did check out the rest of your post, but first, I gotta ask, are you sure about this?

From everything I read there's never any downside to using the lowest ISO possible, assuming you expose correctly. I never heard of low ISOs causing highlight clipping. If anything, I'd think higher ISOs would do that?

 

[Aberaeron]

... Why? If you and the OP don't care what the shutter speed is, you can just use base ISO and A mode and accept whatever shutter speed you get.

I believe OP wants at least 1/200 shutter speed, shorter than that is also OK...

I think the Nikon minimum shutter speed, auto ISO mode is DX and up; Nikon V/J 1 does not seem to have this ISO auto mode.

Yup, you got the idea. 1/200 is very good for many not-too-demanding action shots. That, coupled with a stabilizing neckstrap, will ensure many well-exposed action shots are acquired.

So why doesn't he use Shutter/Tv priority set tp 1/200th and let the aperture and ISO work themselves out? Or why not even press the ISO button and adjust it as and when necessary just as everyone else does that prefer manual ISO adjustment?

Photographing in action-filled events leaves little or no time for assessing the lighting conditions or adjusting the camera. In those situations, full concentration is spent on capturing the fleeting scenes. Setting Tv mode is well and good, but without a high enough sensor ISO, that can result in a lot of unders, especially at an event inside a building. Ultimately, it is high and higher ISOs which is in real demand.

Yes sure, but setting ISO can be done in preparation for a shot and only takes a second or two on most good cameras, which either have a button to select it for a dial, or a dial to alter it directly. I just cannot see it being an issue.

 

[CreeDo]

Why do you feel that you can trust the camera to do fixed aperture, fixed ISO and automatic shutter speed, but not fixed aperture, fixed shutter speed and automatic ISO?

It is the same metering. Same result.

Because letting the camera decide shutter speed never hurts image quality, as long as it's higher than 200. I don't care if the camera picks 1/350, 1/630, or 1/2500. It's all the same visually (assuming a still subject).

But ISO 200, 400, and 3200 are not all the same.

So if those shutter speeds are visually the same for your purposes, choose the lowest one (1/200s) in M mode and your ISO is guaranteed to be as low as possible.

This is true if I choose ISO myself. Not true if the camera does, it freely adds 1 or 2 stops of ISO in situations where I feel it's completely unnecessary.

Currently, unless I am feeling super lazy, I am doing full-time manual and setting ISO for every situation (which is more tedious than it has to be, I have no ISO wheel). Otherwise I do Av mode. But really I want an auto mode that choose ISO intelligently and lets me set limits on shutter speed and other exposure parameters.