Does 3-d pop exist? Does this image have it?

Do the images posted by user Planetwide in the following link, have that so called 3d pop? There is something captivating about those images whenever I revisit that thread.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1742894/4#15865747
That's just shallow DoF.
I agree it's shallow DoF, but not all shallow DoF is equal. If the background is too blurred it looks flat, but this image has just the right amount of blur to make the subject pop out from the background. Probably this is a different kind of pop from what some people experience but it works for me.
 
These don't work for me because the backgrounds are too blurred. I find too much blur flattens images, not creates a 3D effect. The images that pop for me from DoF effects, need to have a softened but still recognisable background like the images linked a few posts above.
 
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Do the images posted by user Planetwide in the following link, have that so called 3d pop? There is something captivating about those images whenever I revisit that thread.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1742894/4#15865747
These to me look similar to AI-created images from these days... I wonder if a tilt lens was used or just post processing.
They could also be achieved with the Brenizer Method or a very fast, long lens.
 
Do the images posted by user Planetwide in the following link, have that so called 3d pop? There is something captivating about those images whenever I revisit that thread.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1742894/4#15865747
These to me look similar to AI-created images from these days... I wonder if a tilt lens was used or just post processing.
They could also be achieved with the Brenizer Method or a very fast, long lens.
I wish people would stop calling it that.
 
Do the images posted by user Planetwide in the following link, have that so called 3d pop? There is something captivating about those images whenever I revisit that thread.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1742894/4#15865747
These to me look similar to AI-created images from these days... I wonder if a tilt lens was used or just post processing.
They could also be achieved with the Brenizer Method or a very fast, long lens.
I wish people would stop calling it that.
History is replete with things named after the wrong person, sadly.
 
Do the images posted by user Planetwide in the following link, have that so called 3d pop? There is something captivating about those images whenever I revisit that thread.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1742894/4#15865747
These to me look similar to AI-created images from these days... I wonder if a tilt lens was used or just post processing.
They could also be achieved with the Brenizer Method or a very fast, long lens.
I wish people would stop calling it that.
What do you call it? Bokehrama? At least "Brenizer", even if unmerited, is easy to find in a web search.
 
What do you call it? Bokehrama? At least "Brenizer", even if unmerited, is easy to find in a web search.
I'd call it a stitched panorama. I don't think it is all that special to be using the lens at a relatively wide aperture for taking the shots in a panorama.

The really big problem with using a wide aperture is that the out-of-focus point spread function (OOF PSF; image of an OOF point of light) generally changes as you go further off-axis and becomes asymmetrical. The result is that overlaying the left and right side bokeh from two adjacent images will result in a weird mismatch. This happens with almost every lens and is nearly impossible to correct. If the defocus is not much, the artifacts are minor, but the whole point of "Brenizer" is obtaining lots of defocus -- so most such shots have lots of bokeh artifacts. I think even computational expansion of bokeh gives fewer artifacts on average, although a panorama stitched using very narrow shots (ideally, single pixel wide) can avoid bokeh artifacts.

The typically better approach is to use a larger-format camera or, if a big enough sensor isn't available, either a digital camera obscura (DCO) or a scanning camera. These approaches ensure the bokeh alignment because they sample the view of a fixed lens, which is a bit different from the usual notion of a stitched panorama with the lens moving to widen coverage.
 
Do the images posted by user Planetwide in the following link, have that so called 3d pop? There is something captivating about those images whenever I revisit that thread.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1742894/4#15865747
These to me look similar to AI-created images from these days... I wonder if a tilt lens was used or just post processing.
They could also be achieved with the Brenizer Method or a very fast, long lens.
I wish people would stop calling it that.
What do you call it? Bokehrama? At least "Brenizer", even if unmerited, is easy to find in a web search.
I think ProfHankD said it. I call them stitched mosaics or stitched panoramas. Althouogh I think it falls under compositing and has been done since 1857 or so. It's been around a very long time and naming it after a current day wedding photographer seems weird.
 
Do the images posted by user Planetwide in the following link, have that so called 3d pop? There is something captivating about those images whenever I revisit that thread.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1742894/4#15865747
These to me look similar to AI-created images from these days... I wonder if a tilt lens was used or just post processing.
They could also be achieved with the Brenizer Method or a very fast, long lens.
I wish people would stop calling it that.
What do you call it? Bokehrama? At least "Brenizer", even if unmerited, is easy to find in a web search.
I think ProfHankD said it. I call them stitched mosaics or stitched panoramas. Althouogh I think it falls under compositing and has been done since 1857 or so. It's been around a very long time and naming it after a current day wedding photographer seems weird.
Ok, that seems sensible. Still, it's a very particular way of effect stitching images with long lenses to achieve a very intense bokeh effect (even if flawed as ProfHank explained. So simply calling it a stitched panorama doesn't do it for me, because I do them all the time in order to create high resolution landscape images, but without the bokeh effect.
The only other term I've read that fits is bokehrama. So maybe I'll stick to that in the future.
 

In the 3D-Pop Flickr group you have to browse a bit beyond that George guy that is all over the place. This one is very convincing to me.

I agree with SimpleJoy that primeshooter is the champ in that group.

Bas
 

In the 3D-Pop Flickr group you have to browse a bit beyond that George guy that is all over the place. This one is very convincing to me.

I agree with SimpleJoy that primeshooter is the champ in that group.

Bas
Having worked my way through those, I'm more convinced than ever that the trick to this 3D look is to have a primary sharp subject in the foreground against a slightly out of focus, but still recognisable, background. Just the right amount of background blur is essential. Too little and it doesn't work, and if the background is too blurred, the image flattens.
 

In the 3D-Pop Flickr group you have to browse a bit beyond that George guy that is all over the place. This one is very convincing to me.

I agree with SimpleJoy that primeshooter is the champ in that group.

Bas
Having worked my way through those, I'm more convinced than ever that the trick to this 3D look is to have a primary sharp subject in the foreground against a slightly out of focus, but still recognisable, background. Just the right amount of background blur is essential. Too little and it doesn't work, and if the background is too blurred, the image flattens.
That's what I expected the result to be when I started my first little study of 3D pop in 2014. People didn't generally agree on this, which is a pitty because it's not terrible to enhance this attribute in computational postprocessing. The only thing they did agree on is Chromostereopsis. Of course, lots of images with high sharpness and a gentle transition to not-too-out-of-focus also happen to benefit from chromostereopsis -- especially since human subjects are reddish.

Incidentally, in every study I've done where I had humans evaluate image quality, I've found that humans are remarkably inconsistent about identifying good/bad attributes. The first was having humans evaluate the quality of repairs of the Fuji X10 white orbs defect. The DPReview article linked explains how Fuji's modified sensor repaired the white orbs problem, but it actually didn't repair it. The horrific blooming is still there, but slightly less and Fuji stopped insanely sharpening the edges of orbs. Compare the images in the DPReview article to the computational repair done by my free DeOrbIt software working with images captured using the original sensor; here's a slide from my Electronic Imaging 2013 research presentation on DeOrbIt:

752d4e269ac04a908cfd1cf058e17b1c.jpg.png

It's a highly credible repair to say the least, and looks much better than the "fixed" Fuji sensor produces. In case you're wondering how it works, DeOrbIt (1) identifies the white orbs, (2) uses an inpainting algorithm to replace each orb with credible background, and finally (3) applies computational relighting to add natural-looking smooth highlights.

However, not only did DPReview staff accept the very low-quality repair of Fuji's "fixed" sensor, but when (before Fuji made their repair) I gave people the ability to run their own images through a web form version of DeOrbIt and score the repair quality, DeOrbIt got a mix of very high and very low scores. Why? Well, the low scores mostly came from repair of user images that did not have the white orbs defect! People submitted shots with bokeh or other image content that looked a little like white orbs, and deorbit quite correctly recognized that those were not the defect and left the images untouched, causing the submitters to give very poor repair quality scores... In fact, online, a large fraction of people's images posted online supposedly showing how bad their camera's white orbs defect is are actually images that don't have the defect at all.

I see the same human inability to recognize image properties every time I teach my "cameras as computing systems" course. Students have trouble correctly identifying the various types of artifacts caused by lenses, sensors, etc., even after being taught how to recognize each.
 

In the 3D-Pop Flickr group you have to browse a bit beyond that George guy that is all over the place. This one is very convincing to me.

I agree with SimpleJoy that primeshooter is the champ in that group.

Bas
Having worked my way through those, I'm more convinced than ever that the trick to this 3D look is to have a primary sharp subject in the foreground against a slightly out of focus, but still recognisable, background. Just the right amount of background blur is essential. Too little and it doesn't work, and if the background is too blurred, the image flattens.
Exactly what SimpleJoy (and I agree) has observed. And if you analyze TV content, it tends to do the same!

Bas
 

In the 3D-Pop Flickr group you have to browse a bit beyond that George guy that is all over the place. This one is very convincing to me.

I agree with SimpleJoy that primeshooter is the champ in that group.

Bas
fPrime, the author of that photo, is a DPR forum member, FWIW. His opinions often clash with other forum members, especially when it comes to the hows, whys, and whats of 3D-Pop, but he does seem to love his Nikkor D lenses for having "it".

Depending on where you stand I would encourage or discourage you to search for old DPR threads on this very subject where he or she has participated.
 
I was going to write something even more blunt, but obviously that would just be showing bad manners. I assume the low element count theory comes from the following article, which I think proves nothing:

Low element count and 3D pop
For me, this article is a good example for the mass of BS on Internet:
Glass is a capacitor. ...
Show that the Author has no connection to facts, optics, physics, etc. Reading articles like this poisons the mind.
 


I see the same human inability to recognize image properties every time I teach my "cameras as computing systems" course. Students have trouble correctly identifying the various types of artifacts caused by lenses, sensors, etc., even after being taught how to recognize each.
Do they have cameras that they can use to produce the various effects ? I would guess that many of them would never have used an ILC.

I can imagine that if all they have is phones, teaching about depth of field (for instance) would be difficult. Of course, phones are even more computery than DSLRs.

Maybe a course called "How phones think" would be effective ? Then you can mention that there are also things called "cameras" that can take wide angle and tele photos, and show examples.

Don
 

In the 3D-Pop Flickr group you have to browse a bit beyond that George guy that is all over the place. This one is very convincing to me.

I agree with SimpleJoy that primeshooter is the champ in that group.

Bas
fPrime, the author of that photo, is a DPR forum member, FWIW. His opinions often clash with other forum members, especially when it comes to the hows, whys, and whats of 3D-Pop, but he does seem to love his Nikkor D lenses for having "it".

Depending on where you stand I would encourage or discourage you to search for old DPR threads on this very subject where he or she has participated.
Interesting, thanks. The named profile named to be most effective was "primeshooter" who is a different person. However fprime also has some very successful images in my opinion and since he often uses his Nikkor lenses, they obviously help with that.
 

In the 3D-Pop Flickr group you have to browse a bit beyond that George guy that is all over the place. This one is very convincing to me.

I agree with SimpleJoy that primeshooter is the champ in that group.

Bas
Having worked my way through those, I'm more convinced than ever that the trick to this 3D look is to have a primary sharp subject in the foreground against a slightly out of focus, but still recognisable, background. Just the right amount of background blur is essential. Too little and it doesn't work, and if the background is too blurred, the image flattens.
All true and probably the most important part for those who identify an image looking like that as having 3D pop.
I believe it's also the perspective, because to me images are most effective, if they clearly show the transition from sharp to unsharp, even better from unsharp (in the foreground) to sharp, to unsharp (in the background).
In order to have that the scene needs some actual depth and you need to have a low point of view to be able to show the foreground transition.
Also it's very important to have the subject more or less in the middle, to be able to see a transition to the unsharp areas on both sides of the subject.

Like stated before: Lines, layers, light, shiny surfaces (on the subject), the color red, etc. help additionally.
 
I was going to write something even more blunt, but obviously that would just be showing bad manners. I assume the low element count theory comes from the following article, which I think proves nothing:

Low element count and 3D pop
For me, this article is a good example for the mass of BS on Internet:
Glass is a capacitor. ...
Show that the Author has no connection to facts, optics, physics, etc. Reading articles like this poisons the mind.
I feel the same, which is why I overreacted a bit when reading about the low element count.
--

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