D850 vs. D5: some observations

[drt3]

Earlier this week, I had the opportunity to do an experiment comparing my D850 with my D5 for low-light indoor action photography. I have tons of experience with the D5 in this scenario, and I was interested to see how well the D850 would hold up. I took a about a thousand shots with each camera in the same setting, same lenses, same activities, same (low) lighting.

While the D850 is superior to the D5 in several respects, for action photography the D5 is a clear winner:

- Better frame rate (12fps vs. 9fps with the battery pack).
- Much deeper frame buffer: I almost never hit the buffer limit in the D5, but I was hitting it often with the D850. Dual XQD cards helps this.
- More custom buttons (Fn1, etc.). I use these extensively for action photography.
- RECALL SHOOTING FUNCTIONS feature is really handy for action photography where I need a quick change to another exposure setting (e.g. slower shutter and smaller apereture).
- The D5 seems about one stops better for low-light (quality of image at ISO10000, for example).
- *Slightly* better AF in the D5. I assume this comes from a shorter blackout period resulting from a better shutter/mirror mechanism.
- Overall feel: the D5 feels like a finely tuned machine next to the D850. Not that the D850 is bad; it is still excellent. Using them back-to-back, however, the D5 just feels like a race car compared to the nice-German-sedan feel of the D850.

Of course, the D850's advantages include:

- Much higher resolution.
- Much better dynamic range.
- Smaller and lighter without the battery pack.
- Price.
- Much better video capabilities.

I'll keep using my D850 for "slower" photography, but for "fast" photography, the D5 isn't going on the shelf any time soon.

What are others' impressions of the two cameras, for those who have used both?

 

[Ellis Vener]

”Using them back-to-back, however, the D5 just feels like a race car compared to the nice-German-sedan feel of the D850.”

That is a very good metaphor for the differences.

 

[PerfectPoms]

drt - "*Slightly* better AF in the D5. I assume this comes from a shorter blackout period resulting from a better shutter/mirror mechanism."

Those who haven't used both cameras might believe Nikon's unclear pronouncements that the D850 and D500 have the 'same autofocus systems' as the D5.

And many of the parts of the AF system might be the same in the 3 cameras - BUT, the fact that the D5 has an additional computer processor the other 2 cameras don't have to process AF calculations means that the D5 is CLEARLY better* for the most demanding and challenging AF subjects. (*in my experience for MY photo subjects.)

I gave up on my D850's fairly quickly after getting them, and fairly often used my D4 until I could afford a D5. After recently buying a second D5, I can't decide whether or not to sell my D850's, or just keep them to use on my primes (300mm f/2.8 and 200mm f/2).

I went out recently with 2 D5's and 2 D850's and the 180-400, 70-200, 300 2.8 and 200 f2 - and carrying that weight is NOT fun. And I hate the time and effort of dragging each camera out and putting on the hoods to get ready to shoot, and then packing it all up again to move to the next spot to take more photos. Shooting with one camera allows you to move and follow the 'action' - whereas trying to move those big lens means I'm stuck in one location.

(And I feel a little vulnerable shooting in the city when I've got $60K worth of camera equipment at my feet and sketchy people are nearby - especially since someone tried to steal one of my puppies a month ago!)

--
Bill,
http://www.pbase.com/billmcintyre

 

[Ellis Vener]

drt - "*Slightly* better AF in the D5. I assume this comes from a shorter blackout period resulting from a better shutter/mirror mechanism."

Those who haven't used both cameras might believe Nikon's unclear pronouncements that the D850 and D500 have the 'same autofocus systems' as the D5.

And many of the parts of the AF system might be the same in the 3 cameras - BUT, the fact that the D5 has an additional computer processor the other 2 cameras don't have to process AF calculations means that the D5 is CLEARLY better* for the most demanding and challenging AF subjects. (*in my experience for MY photo subjects.)

I gave up on my D850's fairly quickly after getting them, and fairly often used my D4 until I could afford a D5. After recently buying a second D5, I can't decide whether or not to sell my D850's, or just keep them to use on my primes (300mm f/2.8 and 200mm f/2).

I went out recently with 2 D5's and 2 D850's and the 180-400, 70-200, 300 2.8 and 200 f2 - and carrying that weight is NOT fun. And I hate the time and effort of dragging each camera out and putting on the hoods to get ready to shoot, and then packing it all up again to move to the next spot to take more photos. Shooting with one camera allows you to move and follow the 'action' - whereas trying to move those big lens means I'm stuck in one location.

(And I feel a little vulnerable shooting in the city when I've got $60K worth of camera equipment at my feet and sketchy people are nearby - especially since someone tried to steal one of my puppies a month ago!)

 

[Rich42]

Bill,

That's a very impressive gear list. And quite a collection of puppy images.

May I ask, does the breeding business fully fund that kind of gear investment. Or are you also involved in other photography efforts?

Best,

Rich

 

[Gearsau]

drt - "*Slightly* better AF in the D5. I assume this comes from a shorter blackout period resulting from a better shutter/mirror mechanism."

Those who haven't used both cameras might believe Nikon's unclear pronouncements that the D850 and D500 have the 'same autofocus systems' as the D5.

And many of the parts of the AF system might be the same in the 3 cameras - BUT, the fact that the D5 has an additional computer processor the other 2 cameras don't have to process AF calculations means that the D5 is CLEARLY better* for the most demanding and challenging AF subjects. (*in my experience for MY photo subjects.)

I gave up on my D850's fairly quickly after getting them, and fairly often used my D4 until I could afford a D5. After recently buying a second D5, I can't decide whether or not to sell my D850's, or just keep them to use on my primes (300mm f/2.8 and 200mm f/2).

I went out recently with 2 D5's and 2 D850's and the 180-400, 70-200, 300 2.8 and 200 f2 - and carrying that weight is NOT fun. And I hate the time and effort of dragging each camera out and putting on the hoods to get ready to shoot, and then packing it all up again to move to the next spot to take more photos. Shooting with one camera allows you to move and follow the 'action' - whereas trying to move those big lens means I'm stuck in one location.

(And I feel a little vulnerable shooting in the city when I've got $60K worth of camera equipment at my feet and sketchy people are nearby - especially since someone tried to steal one of my puppies a month ago!)

You just have to "Eat more Beef "



[ATTACH alt=" Nikon 300mm f2.8 AF-S, Nikon 500mm f4 AF-I and Nikon 800mm f5.6 Manual Focus. A " Billingham Bag " Designed to give curvature of the spine "]media_3428307[/ATTACH]
Nikon 300mm f2.8 AF-S, Nikon 500mm f4 AF-I and Nikon 800mm f5.6 Manual Focus. A " Billingham Bag " Designed to give curvature of the spine

Memories


Regards Peter

 

[PerfectPoms]

Bill,

That's a very impressive gear list. And quite a collection of puppy images.

May I ask, does the breeding business fully fund that kind of gear investment. Or are you also involved in other photography efforts?

Best,

Rich

Hi Rich.

I've thought of offering my collection of bodies and a couple relevant lenses to work as an assistant to a wedding photographer (but I don't know if they'd pay enough for me to consider the effort worthwhile.)

My puppy business has funded my camera equipment splurges, but more than what I earn has been what I HAVEN'T spent money on. Whenever I sell a couple of puppies, I go out and buy a new lens or camera body - but I don't spend a cent on a car or house or vacations or parties or booze or drugs or cigarettes, etc.

And I've been lucky that the Pomsky puppies I'm specializing in now is very much in demand.

 

[Rich42]

"Whenever I sell a couple of puppies, I go out and buy a new lens or camera body - but I don't spend a cent on a car or house or vacations or parties or booze or drugs or cigarettes, etc."

Ok. I won't ask where the money for those "non-essentials" comes from.



Rich

 

[PerfectPoms]

"Have you thought about hiring an assistant?y Not necessarily someone interested in photography but someone like a personal trainer from a gym?"

I have more of a need of an assistant at some locations mainly to herd my puppies into spots with the prettiest backgrounds for photos. One spot that has the greatest backgrounds gets me very frustrated when I'm alone with the pups because the pups spend WAY too much time just sitting at my feet - and I'd get 7 or 8 times as many good photos if I had someone to call the puppies to come to them to keep the pups 20 feet away from me. I'm talking about nice colorful backgrounds like this: http://www.pbase.com/billmcintyre/sept5a_18

And I don't know how much I'd trust many people to handle my gear. I hired someone recently and she dropped one of my puppies, and many years ago I handed my camera to a girlfriend as I ran after one of my puppies that was running away at the beach - and I got back to discover that she had simply set it down - in some REALLY soft and deep beach sand!! I was horrified!

 

[PerfectPoms]

What are essentials for other people are simply things I choose to live without (in order to spend stupidly on gear.) I don't own a car. Don't have a house.

It's a question of priorities. Most people wouldn't go as far to the extreme as I have gone. I'm pretty extreme. I don't have much of a life other than spending time taking photos of my 'kids.' (In fact, over the last few months I took 180,000 photos in 2 1/2 months just with my D5. And I took more photos as well with my D4 and D850's.)

And I have come across a similar question of priorities when I've had more than one woman who is getting married ask me for a SIGNIFICANT discount on one of my puppies - and she complains that she's spending $100,000 on her wedding - and I roll my eyes and bite my tongue to not tell her that if she spent a little less on one part of her wedding she could have one of my prettiest puppies.

 

[PerfectPoms]

That photo has been quite 'famous' on the dpreview website for a long time. I seem to recall there may be another photo, maybe of the same guy, carrying the 1200mm lens?

 

[TQGroup]

"Have you thought about hiring an assistant?y Not necessarily someone interested in photography but someone like a personal trainer from a gym?"

I have more of a need of an assistant at some locations mainly to herd my puppies into spots with the prettiest backgrounds for photos. One spot that has the greatest backgrounds gets me very frustrated when I'm alone with the pups because the pups spend WAY too much time just sitting at my feet - and I'd get 7 or 8 times as many good photos if I had someone to call the puppies to come to them to keep the pups 20 feet away from me. I'm talking about nice colorful backgrounds like this: http://www.pbase.com/billmcintyre/sept5a_18

And I don't know how much I'd trust many people to handle my gear. I hired someone recently and she dropped one of my puppies, and many years ago I handed my camera to a girlfriend as I ran after one of my puppies that was running away at the beach - and I got back to discover that she had simply set it down - in some REALLY soft and deep beach sand!! I was horrified!

Mondo cane

 

[Bob GB]

And many of the parts of the AF system might be the same in the 3 cameras - BUT, the fact that the D5 has an additional computer processor the other 2 cameras don't have to process AF calculations means that the D5 is CLEARLY better* for the most demanding and challenging AF subjects. (*in my experience for MY photo subjects.)

How do you know the D5 has an additional computer processor?

I have not seen anything about an extra processor in the D5. The battery comsumption does not look like that is the case either.

 

[Gearsau]

That photo has been quite 'famous' on the dpreview website for a long time. I seem to recall there may be another photo, maybe of the same guy, carrying the 1200mm lens?

Dear PP ,

No, I only have the 300mm, 500mm, and 800 mm lenses. I think the photographer who was carrying that Nikon 1,200 mm lens was Gilbert Rossi, who is a Sydney based photographer.

I have seen a Nikon 1,200 mm lens. I was in Tokyo at the Nikon Pro Service center many years ago, and, a Japanese photographer walked in with one. I thought it may have been a loan lens, but, they advised me that it was owned by the photographer

That lens is " Big " !!

 

[PerfectPoms]

See below.

--
Bill,
http://www.pbase.com/billmcintyre

 

[PerfectPoms]

"For the first time in a Nikon DSLR, a second processor is dedicated solely to autofocus operation and computing." from: https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-cameras/d5.html

and from https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d5/nikon-d5A.HTM "The D5 is the first Nikon camera to utilize a dedicated autofocus processor."

 

[PerfectPoms]

Wow. I thought that photo was 'just some guy' - on the internet.'

Good to meet someone who can actually sympathize about carrying all that gear. I actually cheat and stow my gear attached to my dog stroller:



... but in order to prevent my dog stroller from falling over backwards because of the heavy weight of my new lenses, I had to add a LOT of lead weight to the front of my current stroller to balance things:



That's a HEAVY chunk of lead attached to the front fork of that dog stroller

and (beside the head of the puppies in both photos is lead (painted black) wired to the stroller)



But when I've taken 4 big lens and 4 camera bodies out with me - it doesn't leave much room left inside the body of the dog stroller for my photo subjects. (the puppies travel to the park inside the dog stroller)

--
Bill,
http://www.pbase.com/billmcintyre

 

[DChapman]

According to Nikon's literature, the D500 and D850 both have the dedicated AF processor.

 

[TQGroup]

And many of the parts of the AF system might be the same in the 3 cameras - BUT, the fact that the D5 has an additional computer processor the other 2 cameras don't have to process AF calculations means that the D5 is CLEARLY better* for the most demanding and challenging AF subjects. (*in my experience for MY photo subjects.)

How do you know the D5 has an additional computer processor?

I have not seen anything about an extra processor in the D5. The battery comsumption does not look like that is the case either.

"The D5 is the first Nikon camera to utilize a dedicated autofocus processor. Its Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module" Source: Imaging Resource D5 Review.

 

[TQGroup]

According to Nikon's literature, the D500 and D850 both have the dedicated AF processor.

I'm sure you are right. But are they the same?

This test seems to indicate not:

Nikon D850 Autofocus Tracking Not as Good as D5, Test Finds

Nikon's marketing says the $3,300 D850's autofocus components are the same as the $6,500 D5, but how do the two cameras stack up in real-world

petapixel.com

The pros who use the D5 seem to agree