D80 metering? What's the problem?

[kwaphoto]

I have a new D80. In the past I've had a D50, D70s and currently a D40 and Pentax K10D I would like the D80 to replace (its metering is far inferior to the D40? lol..and flash? Not even close). I have also used some of Canon's pro cams and one of my favorites an Oly E-1.

Now, this D80's metering is ALL OVER the map! Esp with matrix and even center-weighted. I've taken the same shots with the D40 and the results are dramatically different. I NEVER have to adjust exposure comp with the D40 (I just keep it set at -0.3) . I rarely used it with the D50 or D70s either - they were fantastic!

To get decent exposure on this D80, I have to use the following:

Indoor, low light flash: + 1.0
Indoor, natural light: +0.7
Outdoor, bright light: -0.7
Outdoor, cloudy: -0.3
AND adjust + - for almost every consecutive shot!!!

What gives? Anyone else having this issue? I ordered the D80 because I love the Nikon flash system and metering. Even with speedlights, this thing is horrible so far. It's not even consistent shot to shot, on a tripod, no changes in anything????? Not even in harsh or mixed lighting - this happens so much it seems like a defect to me. I am about to pack this thing back up and send it back to Adorama on Monday unless someone can help me out with this.

If it does go back to Adorama - I will not be exchanging it for a D80 again. Any suggestions? I won't exchange for a D40x as I do desire something larger and closer to the pro cams I used to use when shooting for $. And I miss some of the higher end features. Is the D200 exposure/metering just as bad as the D80? The D200 is slightly older design, so I can't believe it would be better - maybe I'm wrong?

On another note - the build quality of the D40 actually seems better than the D80? I know the K10D is closer to the D200 - so that should be a big improvement.

Thanks for the advice in advance!
--
KWA Photo

 

[anthony718]

sounds like yours is defective, try another one
--
http://anthonyc.zenfolio.com/

 

[Rav77]

The d80 does have over exposure issues on matrix metering. Most people use -.3 or -.7 exp. comp. to deal with it. As far as I know these issues are with matrix only and not centre or spot.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65191346@N00/

 

[Chris Elliott104343]

Now, this D80's metering is ALL OVER the map! Esp with matrix and
even center-weighted. I've taken the same shots with the D40 and the
results are dramatically different. I NEVER have to adjust exposure
comp with the D40 (I just keep it set at -0.3) . I rarely used it
with the D50 or D70s either - they were fantastic!

To get decent exposure on this D80, I have to use the following:

Indoor, low light flash: + 1.0
Indoor, natural light: +0.7
Outdoor, bright light: -0.7
Outdoor, cloudy: -0.3
AND adjust + - for almost every consecutive shot!!!

What gives? Anyone else having this issue? I ordered the D80 because
I love the Nikon flash system and metering. Even with speedlights,
this thing is horrible so far. It's not even consistent shot to
shot, on a tripod, no changes in anything????? Not even in harsh or
mixed lighting - this happens so much it seems like a defect to me.
I am about to pack this thing back up and send it back to Adorama on
Monday unless someone can help me out with this.

Try searching this site for the thousands of threads commenting on the D80 metering.

The probabilty is there is nothing wrong with your D80.

I am tired of endlessly putting the record straight regarding the D80 metering. Nikon should be doing that themselves:

1. The D80 MM exposes for the shadows
2. The D80 gives weight to the centre and lower third of the photo
3. The D80 gives considerable weight to the active focus sensor point.
4. Setting the Centre AF point to wide will help.
5. Avoid focus and recompose.

6. The flash mode varies according to whether you chose Spot or MM/Center-weighted.

Thom Hogans' book gives a very thorough exposition of the camera.

If you set the AF so that you control the AF sensor in use and not the camera you will find the cam is quite controllable.

If it does go back to Adorama - I will not be exchanging it for a D80
again. Any suggestions? I won't exchange for a D40x as I do desire
something larger and closer to the pro cams I used to use when
shooting for $. And I miss some of the higher end features. Is the
D200 exposure/metering just as bad as the D80? The D200 is slightly
older design, so I can't believe it would be better - maybe I'm wrong?

I am surprised you have bought without reading up on the D80 and the alternatives. I suggest you do some reading for yourself. Try this site, Imaging-resource and Thom Hogan.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/

 

[kwaphoto]

I always choose my focus point and never let the camera. I do - do my research. However, with my previous positive experiences with Nikon's metering in older DSLR's, I didn't think it would much of an issue. if anything, I thought it would have been improved.

Thank you for the rest of your response which was quite helpful!
--
KWA Photo

 

[tatanka]

It's interesting, and I don't quite have the hang of it yet (but getting there, I hope). I find that the D80 almost consistently UNDERexposes outdoors. Here's a recent example straight out of the camera other than resizing (EXIF intact):

Center weighted, exposure comp 0:



Same shot, 10 seconds later, exposure comp +1.33:



I'm at a loss to explain this one (exposure comp 0):



The reason this keeps coming up is because it IS an issue. No other Nikon DSLR is generating these complaints. It seems like Nikon might have made some changes to the metering algorithm in the D80 where they might have left well enough alone. (I'm sure I'll catch some flame for that). It's almost like the meter has another rule that says highlights shouldn't be blown under ANY circumstance.

I chimp a lot more than I should...

 

[Chris Elliott104343]

I always choose my focus point and never let the camera. I do - do my
research. However, with my previous positive experiences with Nikon's
metering in older DSLR's, I didn't think it would much of an issue.
if anything, I thought it would have been improved.

Did not mean to put you down.

I came from a series of Oly DSLRS to the D80 and have not really had major problems perhaps because I was expecting a quantum leap change.

Thank you for the rest of your response which was quite helpful!

There really ought to be some sort of FAQ facility on this site. I try to do my bit to inform but there are posts like yours almost daily so it gets quite wearing!

I commend Thom's book to you.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/

 

[Chris Elliott104343]

... I find that the D80 almost consistently
UNDERexposes outdoors. Here's a recent example straight out of the
camera other than resizing (EXIF intact):

I have limited experience of CW. I use either MM or Spot but I am not aware of suggestions that CW is an issue. Rather people criticise MM and use CW instead

Center weighted, exposure comp 0:



Same shot, 10 seconds later, exposure comp +1.33:

Now I predict that had you used MM for this shot the exposure would have been bang on. If you can replicate it give it a try!

CW and Spot usually require more intervention from the photographer to adjust EV to allow for surroundings. You appear to have a high DR shot where the light from the outer 25% is sufficiently different to affect the overall exposure.

I wonder whether the D80 underexposes in CW as the D70 did with MM? I do not know the answer to that.

The 2nd photo is two stops down from the 1st so the lighting has changed a little as has the composition (Not that it matters are you sure they are only 10 secs apart? The fella bottom left seems to have sat himself down awfully quickly.)

I'm at a loss to explain this one (exposure comp 0):

What is your tone set to? Is it on auto? Again I suspect that MM would have done a better job but at the expense of the sky. I think I would have used -0.3 or -0.5 EV with MM.

I am curious as to why you used ISO 400 on this shot? I wonder if the cam had maxed out at 1/4000th and wanted to go higher. Maybe that affected the way Auto Tone handled the shot?

The reason this keeps coming up is because it IS an issue. No other
Nikon DSLR is generating these complaints. It seems like Nikon might
have made some changes to the metering algorithm in the D80 where
they might have left well enough alone.

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you suggesting they have made changes to the metering mid production run? I doubt it.

(I'm sure I'll catch some flame for that). It's almost like the meter has another rule that says highlights shouldn't be blown under ANY circumstance.

Most people complain it blow highlights too easily in MM!!

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/

 

[Henry Goh]

D100, D70, D2H and D80. I don't find anything out of the ordinary with all their meters. Perhaps I've been lucky but I suspect spending enough time to know each of these cameras may have something to do with my positive impressions. Here is a rather challenging shot in terms of light, which I happen to capture only this morning. The camera exposed correctly.

 

[kodakuser]

The D80 metering is fantastic...its amazing...theres no problem...none whatsoever...what problem?...its you...you dont posess the advanced highly powered brain required to master such a highly sophisticated instrument...no no no ...you must understand its not a point and shoot... you cant expect a camera to know what you want....etc etc etc....

Just sell it and buy something else, thats what I did...even another Nikon, but if you like Matrix metering, and expect it to work like other cams (Sony A100 for example)...then you will always be dis-satisfied with the D80

Go with your instincts, this forum nearly murdered me six months ago for daring to suggest that Live View was a vaguely desireable feature...if you feel that the D80 meter sucks ( I happen to agree)..dump the cam
--

Sony A100 examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mangizmo/sets/72157600209437795/

My blog at... http://southwestwanderings.blogspot.com/

'Take nothing but photographs....leave nothing but footprints'

Vaughan....KodakP880/Sony Alpha100/Sony R1/Sony 717

 

[uk102]

I agree the D80 metering system does not work as many Nikon users expect( when matrix meter). For some reason Nikon have made it work like Canon's and the Canon users complain about the same thing. That is it appears that the metering is biased toward the centre of the image. Therefore it will try not to under expose the centre of the image, even if it means over exposing the back ground.

Not picking fault with your images as i like them, but I don't feel these are metering issues. The popcorn picture has a hug over exposed section to the left & you used centre weighted metering with a cropped the image. It appears to me the first time around the meter must have picked up some of the bright background light and bias the exposure for that. Spot metering was required here, to get the results consistently as per photo 2. This is simply the risk of using centre weighted metering as with any camera

Photo 2 you simply have a bright sky and dark foreground. Matrix metering will give you an average as it has done here. Simply to expose the scene you need to over expose the sky.

I don't have that many issues with metering on any Nikon camera, but I always use manual metering and spot metering. I use my judgement rather than the camera judgement. It makes you think more about you subject rather expecting the camera to come up with something.

The D80 like the pro camera has more consistent meter than many previous Nikon. The D40 seam to underexpose by a 1/3 of a stop. I don't call that good news, but as it consistent I can work around it

Center weighted, exposure comp 0:



Same shot, 10 seconds later, exposure comp +1.33:



I'm at a loss to explain this one (exposure comp 0):



It's almost like the meter has another rule that says highlights shouldn't be blown under ANY circumstance.

Thats not a too bad rule

--

A camera is a black box you can capture light in. A DSLR is a black box you can capture light in and see the light

 

[bimmerman]

In the past, every Nikon with 3D matrix of any vintage especially colour matrix worked like a charm while Canon metering struggled at best. This applies to Nikon vs Canon flash metering as well.

Not until the Canon 20D did Canon users find some consistency with metering but still nothing like Nikon consistency. From my own experience with the D80 I can say that the D80 has changed all that. Nikon denies this and has posted some tutorials on their website on how to use metering correctly and so on... Oh please! The D80 has evaluative metering that is worse than the appalling Canon 10D. Tell me Nikon, why is it that the Nikon D40, D40x, D50, D70, D70s, D100, etc has no such issues? Why?

Perhaps it's time to stop denying and just firmware fix the issue already! I'd buy a patched D80 anytime while waiting for the D300 to arrive.

 

[Logge]

The 420px Metering sensor was introduced with the D50 and is used by D80 and D40(x) as well

all other models (D70, D100, D200 and D2 series, even the new D3 and D300) use the 1005px metering sensor.

now what i'm wondering ist that the D80 is the only camera with 11 focus areas that uses the 420px sensor.

all models so far gave weight to the focus point in matrix, but the D80 does that stronger than others before, but with 11 focus points could it be that the 420px sensor just doesn't offer enough information to get that biasing right?

--
Mario

My Gallery
http://www.mg-photo.ch

 

[Robert Andrew Bell]

The 420px Metering sensor was introduced with the D50 and is used by
D80 and D40(x) as well
all other models (D70, D100, D200 and D2 series, even the new D3 and
D300) use the 1005px metering sensor.
now what i'm wondering ist that the D80 is the only camera with 11
focus areas that uses the 420px sensor.
all models so far gave weight to the focus point in matrix, but the
D80 does that stronger than others before, but with 11 focus points
could it be that the 420px sensor just doesn't offer enough
information to get that biasing right?

--
Mario

My Gallery
http://www.mg-photo.ch

Just to be accurate, the D100 never had a 1005 pixel matrix meter it used a 10 area matrix meter.

Rob.

 

[Spikasso]

i have to agree with the person who posted the photos above, when i go manual (with following exactly what the meter says, or even A setting, i always wind up twith the histogram completely at the left hand side, i seem to need to adjust most times 2 bars over exposed (in the manual mode) sometime all the way to 4.... no matter what the lighting conditions....and this is matrix metering

 

[AlvinL]

My D50 has way better metering than my new D80. All I had to do with the D50 was to dial the EV comp to -0.3 and it was perfect.
--
http://www.pbase.com/all86

 

[Logge]

Just to be accurate, the D100 never had a 1005 pixel matrix meter it
used a 10 area matrix meter.

true, my bad, the 1005 px meter was introduced with the D2H, then D70, then D2X

Rob.

--
Mario

My Gallery
http://www.mg-photo.ch

 

[AllOtherNamesTaken]

((NT))

 

[AlvinL]

((NT))

I just recently got my D80. It took me about 3 months to get used to the D50 strengths and weaknesses. I expect it to be the same with the D80. I just have to adapt to the new metering.
--
http://www.pbase.com/all86

 

[rhlpetrus]

I tend to agree with you that Nikon may have tried to make MM in D80's too smart. From my experience it seems very sensitive to focus point and also to high contrast scenes and little variations in compostition. Since it's supposed to be a spec'd down version of D200's, with less points, it should be, in principle, less sensitive to camera movements, focus pooint, contrast etc.

I've been able, by paying a lot of attention to lighting, to get very good exposure results, mostly in MM without compensation or at most +- 2/3 EV (no real bias, under or over, noted by me, as some have noted).

A couple of weeks ago I posted here saying that maybe D80's users should ask Nikon to relaese new firmware with a revised MM, probably making it less sensitive to details compared to D200's, not more. I was ignored, but it seems I'm not the only one who thinks it could be a good thing.

Regards, Renato.

In the past, every Nikon with 3D matrix of any vintage especially
colour matrix worked like a charm while Canon metering struggled at
best. This applies to Nikon vs Canon flash metering as well.

Not until the Canon 20D did Canon users find some consistency with
metering but still nothing like Nikon consistency. From my own
experience with the D80 I can say that the D80 has changed all that.
Nikon denies this and has posted some tutorials on their website on
how to use metering correctly and so on... Oh please! The D80 has
evaluative metering that is worse than the appalling Canon 10D. Tell
me Nikon, why is it that the Nikon D40, D40x, D50, D70, D70s, D100,
etc has no such issues? Why?

Perhaps it's time to stop denying and just firmware fix the issue
already! I'd buy a patched D80 anytime while waiting for the D300 to
arrive.

--
rhlpetrus
equipment in profile